[CptObvious]

I'm all for this thread as well. Had a SSgt in my shop who we'd always see in a good mood. Joking, good conversations about games, work, life in general. Was generally upbeat. Then one day, we get news that he killed himself. Even his closest friend was shocked. We all were. He never let on about how he was feeling. I had been joking around with him the day before, and I never thought once to ask how things were going, or even let it be known that I am there for him to talk too. As a rather new NCO myself, I am letting my Airmen know that if they need anything to talk to me. This is another avenue that others can use and I'm glad UNDR stepped up and posted it. He has posted a lot of info that I didn't even know about, so thank you.

[UNDRPRVLGD_V2]

Originally Posted by CptObvious

I'm all for this thread as well. Had a SSgt in my shop who we'd always see in a good mood. Joking, good conversations about games, work, life in general. Was generally upbeat. Then one day, we get news that he killed himself. Even his closest friend was shocked. We all were. He never let on about how he was feeling. I had been joking around with him the day before, and I never thought once to ask how things were going, or even let it be known that I am there for him to talk too. As a rather new NCO myself, I am letting my Airmen know that if they need anything to talk to me. This is another avenue that others can use and I'm glad UNDR stepped up and posted it. He has posted a lot of info that I didn't even know about, so thank you.

Men that you spoke about are some of the hardest to ever see coming. When it does its a complete shake up of the work place and friendships that those memebers had. Im glad the information is helpful, let me know if you need anything (CDs) to help you with training.

[SYLO1%ER (Banned)]

A few of my buddies couldn't handle it when we came back and did themselves in. I don't know how I made it through those darkest times, but I can tell any of you that may be going through that living hell that it does slowly get better. I don't think life ever goes completely back to normal, but it will get better. Stay stubborn and resilient, don't let haji get the best of you. I can also tell you guys from experience that you cannot drink (or whatever else) your PTSD or survivor guilt away. I've been dealing with that **** for a number of years and it's effectively ****ed up a lot of good things in my life. There's nothing wrong with throwing a few back with your buds, but trying to drown your pain in a bottle of Jack every night will honestly only make your problems that much worse.

[UNDRPRVLGD_V2]

Originally Posted by SYLO1%ER

A few of my buddies couldn't handle it when we came back and did themselves in. I don't know how I made it through those darkest times, but I can tell any of you that may be going through that living hell that it does slowly get better. I don't think life ever goes completely back to normal, but it will get better. Stay stubborn and resilient, don't let haji get the best of you. I can also tell you guys from experience that you cannot drink (or whatever else) your PTSD or survivor guilt away. I've been dealing with that **** for a number of years and it's effectively ****ed up a lot of good things in my life. There's nothing wrong with throwing a few back with your buds, but trying to drown your pain in a bottle of Jack every night will honestly only make your problems that much worse.

I had the same issue but I turned to booze and the bottle. I drank every night to pass out and it took me years to finally stop drinking and overcome my drinking problem. Life for us is never going to be "normal" two nights ago and here more recently Ive had a spike in nightmares to the point of walking up the Mrs.

It took me a long time to hang up my pride and go see the doctors and seek some counseling. It took even longer not being able to operate with the depression, and ups and down that I seeked some pills to help keep me "level".

[SYLO1%ER (Banned)]

Do you still drink occasionally or did you quit completely? I haven't drank in a month and feel a lot better without having the constant cloudy grogginess. I'm sure it'd be in my best interest to never drink again, but we'll see. Some people can handle it, some can't.

[UNDRPRVLGD_V2]

Originally Posted by SYLO1%ER

Do you still drink occasionally or did you quit completely? I haven't drank in a month and feel a lot better without having the constant cloudy grogginess. I'm sure it'd be in my best interest to never drink again, but we'll see. Some people can handle it, some can't.

I drink here and there but I know how easy it is to go back to being off the wagon sort of say. If Im working on a gun or grilling Ill drink lightly.

[Deathmoney07]

I'm neutral on this thread...but I have to say, if someone did contact you Chris and was in fact suicidal, how would you contact their Chain of Command to take the proper steps? I know in the AF if someone is suicidal, they get put on lock down and a bunch of steps are taken to protect them...Then again, how the hell does the military.onesource do things??? If they're completely anonymous and have the same training as you then why not...??

I'm not saying you shouldn't offer help, I think you're attempting to do a great thing and help out any brother in need. Hell, I think we all know someone who has been there, I'm just worried about the follow up help this brother would receive...if that makes sense?

sorry, but of a ramble, I hope my point comes across. This isn't meant to stir an argument...

[UNDRPRVLGD_V2]

Originally Posted by Deathmoney07

I'm neutral on this thread...but I have to say, if someone did contact you Chris and was in fact suicidal, how would you contact their Chain of Command to take the proper steps? I know in the AF if someone is suicidal, they get put on lock down and a bunch of steps are taken to protect them...Then again, how the hell does the military.onesource do things??? If they're completely anonymous and have the same training as you then why not...??

I'm not saying you shouldn't offer help, I think you're attempting to do a great thing and help out any brother in need. Hell, I think we all know someone who has been there, I'm just worried about the follow up help this brother would receive...if that makes sense?

sorry, but of a ramble, I hope my point comes across. This isn't meant to stir an argument...

I cant contact contact a persons chain of command, Im not god. Im here to talk and give advice. Ive been around for awhile and seen a lot of ****, the best thing I can do is call a few different people and get them involved.

Im not saying this is end all be all, its somewhere that people that may need information to come get it and possibly say a piece or ask for help.

[Deathmoney07]

I think it's great that you're stepping up. If troops can call a hotline and remain anonymous then why not you as well, right? Like you said, not an end all be all

I was just curious if there were ways to get people around a potential suicidal brother involved as well. I mean, I know you're not god but you are a marine lol

I personally have felt more comfort in talking to people who have been there and experienced what I've gone through vs my clueless CoC and the 4th floor...I'm sure submariners have some stories but when's the last time y'all saw combat or anything that came straight off the field?(not a poke at your ego, but the honest truth is, and im sure the same goes for you guys, until you've been in our/your shoes, you can't relate). It's easy to talk and preach the SOP, OI, Guidlines, etc but until you've been through what myself and a few of my friends has gone through...Chris is someone who has been there and done that and is willing (key word:willing) to talk to you and just be there to help you...that's awesome. My CoC could give a **** less(yes I've gone to them explaining my PTSD from my deployment, they only cared if I could continue to work nights for the next 7 months) and they don't have a clue as to what I've experienced....yes, I have 2 E-8's and 3 E-7's and not one has deployed....not even to Qatar or some ****...So you squids may have the best CoC in the military but it's not fluid throughout.

[UNDRPRVLGD_V2]

I have dealt with and are still dealing with depression.

I was a "operational alcoholic" for the better part of 2 years.

I didnt know what the **** PTSD was. I just knew I was ****ed up and still am to this day. I have nightmares and night tremors. There are days Im really depressed and for no other reason than i just am. I take pills and they help sometimes.

Dude Im not doctor just a grunt thats seen a lot of combat and **** over the years. If I can help out other dudes then so be it.

[UNDRPRVLGD_V2]

Adding nothing to this conversation.

[UNDRPRVLGD_V2]

Combat deployments, no matter how many or how long, were not the reason for the notable increase in military suicides, according to a study of current and former U.S. servicemembers from 2001 to 2008.

The study, published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, found that military members’ risk of suicide was associated with the same factors as those in the civilian population: being male, and suffering from depression and alcohol or drug abuse.

The study by Cynthia A. LeardMann, M.P.H., of the Naval Health Research Center, San Diego, and colleagues, comes eight years after the military suicide rate began climbing as the military fought two wars.

The findings of the study — thought to be the first that in addition to tracking active-duty troops, followed servicemembers after they resumed civilian life — counter the conventional wisdom that combat stress, number of deployments and the operations tempo as the U.S. fought wars in Iraq and Afghanistan had caused more troops to take their own lives.

“In this sample of current and former military personnel … suicide risk was independently associated with male sex and mental disorders but not with military-specific variables,” the study, “Risk Factors Associated with Suicide in Current and Former U.S. Military Personnel,” said.

The study looked at deaths of troops among the 151,597 participating in the military’s Millennium Cohort Study, a health study in which participants complete surveys every three years. Researchers then linked that data with the National Death Index and the Department of Defense Medical Mortality Registry through December 31, 2008.

Between 2001 and 2008, there were 83 suicides — 12.8 percent — among a total of 646 deaths of those enrolled in the Millennium Cohort Study.

“In models adjusted for age and sex, factors significantly associated with increased risk of suicide included male sex, depression, manic-depressive disorder, heavy or binge drinking, and alcohol-related problems,” the study said. “The authors found that none of the deployment-related factors (combat experience, cumulative days deployed, or number of deployments) were associated with increased suicide risk in any of the models.”

The study noted that other studies have shown a marked increase in the incidence of mental health disorder diagnoses among active-duty servicemembers since 2005, paralleling the suicide incidence.

“This suggests that the increased rate of suicide in the military may largely be a product of an increased prevalence of mental disorders in this population …,” the study said.

The study suggested prevention efforts should focus on addressing mental health disorders and substance abuse, even as it noted that “there are limited studies that validate prevention initiatives.”

Similarly, Dr. Charles Engel, a psychiatrist at the Uniformed Services University of Health Sciences in Bethesda, Md., in an editorial on the study also published in JAMA, said the findings offered “potentially reassuring ways forward” because treatment exists for mood disorders and alcohol misuse.

“Collaborative primary care management is a strategy strongly recommended by the National Institute of Mental Health to military senior leaders as perhaps the most promising suicide prevention strategy.”

Engel also wrote that lasting success in treating military mental health disorders that precede suicide will “require addressing the long-standing military ambivalence toward the medical model of mental illness,” which keeps troops from seeking help because receiving a mental-health diagnosis is not confidential, carries a stigma and can impede a career.

“(T)here are no vaccines to prevent mental disorders, and the study findings suggest the need to remain circumspect about the capacity to reduce suicide rates in practice,” Engel wrote.

Notably absent in the study and Engel’s editorial was any mention of suicide methods and reducing access to them, one of the few suicide prevention techniques that has been demonstrated to be effective.

“What’s remarkable to me is they did not mention the role of reducing access to firearms at all,” said Dr. Matthew Miller, the associate director of the Harvard Injury Control Research Center at the Harvard School of Public Health.

“Yes, it’s very important to treat underlying mental illness and substance abuse. But it’s also crucial to recognize that reducing access to firearms, especially in a population of men who’ve served in the military is probably the surest way to reduce the rate of suicide. It should be mentioned on equal footing with recommendations to treat underlying human suffering.”

Most military suicides are committed with firearms, while about half of civilian suicides use firearms, according to studies by the Army and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The JAMA study’s conclusion buttresses what senior military leaders have suggested since at least 2010 after years of accruing suicide data, particularly in the Army.

In July 2010, an Army report said that 79 percent of active-duty soldiers who committed suicide had deployed only once or not at all; that 60 percent of suicides occurred during a soldier’s first enlistment, most often in the first year; and that among the highest suicide rates were those of men who enlisted in their late 20s.

In 2009, when 310 servicemembers killed themselves, the Army’s suicide rate of 20 per 100,000 soldiers was double what it had been a decade earlier and for the first time surpassed the civilian rate of 19 per 100,000 in a civilian population with similar demographics.

The Army report suggested that the increase was in part attributable to enlisting more at-risk soldiers after recruitment and retention standards were reduced in 2004. More than half of 80,403 waivers granted were to people with a history of drug or alcohol abuse, or crimes, the Army report said, and offenses that once had meant discharge were overlooked.

The U.S. civilian suicide rate also sharply increased from 1999 to 2010, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported this spring, particularly for middle-age men. Their rate was 27.3 deaths per 100,000.

There were 349 suicides by active-duty service members in 2012, according to Pentagon figures, up from 301 the year before.

[YeloSno]

I'm no military personnel, nor have I obtained my psychology degree yet, but at least Chris is trying to help others out.


Help doesn't come from making sure everyone knows something only the victim/patient would.

Help comes from making someone know they're the only one that knows it.


I don't know about you guys, but it's a lot more consoling knowing that people are willing to keep considering you an equal human with as much feeling and thought and legitimacy as them with the problems you have instead of trying to either have false sympathy/empathy in hopes that they can know what you do.

I've talked to friends who went through **** (again, don't know to what degree or the magnitude of the situation, just what they have TOLD me...) and they seem to feel the way normal people feel in proportionally similar situations (let's be frank, a marine sees a team mate die; the same despair is felt when a kid sees his dog die that he's been with for years. No, it's not as tragic and extreme and camo-laden, but emotionally it's the same deal, which is what it seems like a lot of people don't understand and try to dress it up as something much grander and badasser.)


I'm not trying to downsize your guys' problems as there's more than just "oh, dead buddy." involved, either.

I probably will also forget to see the rebuttals against what I said by people trying to prove otherwise. I don't not care, but I just may forget to come by here again.

[UNDRPRVLGD_V2]

During my second tour to Iraq our battalion lost over a dozen Marines, while I didnt know most of them I have interaction with the majority of them at some point. It wasnt till some time later that it really affected me.

The following tour to Iraq we lost nearly 10 Marines, I knew nearly all of them.

Afghanistan we lost 13 during the deployment and several others afterwards due to their injuries. It was the same as my second tour.

Losing life sucks. You become closed of and numb, relationships suffer and you close off the real world. I pushed out a lot of people I cared about and I didnt know I was doing it because I was afraid I would lose them because like so many I had lost to combat. I was subconsciously afraid of losing them to. I replaced them with booze and meaningless people. Took a lot for me to learn that I was going down a path that wasnt healthy and that I needed to talk to others about the issues I was having.

[NEp8ntballer]

http://rhinoden.rangerup.com/categor...talks-suicide/

good reading material

[UNDRPRVLGD_V2]

Originally Posted by NEp8ntballer

http://rhinoden.rangerup.com/categor...talks-suicide/

good reading material

Good stuff right there.

[UNDRPRVLGD_V2]

Gentlemen,

Remember if you need to chat or ask a question you are free to send me a message.

Ill help you the best I can and give you all the information I have at my disposable.

[USAFWD]

I've cleaned up all of the trolling (think I got it all anyway).

If you don't have anything nice to say on the subject, then don't say anything at all.

[UNDRPRVLGD_V2]

Originally Posted by USAFWD

I've cleaned up all of the trolling (think I got it all anyway).

If you don't have anything nice to say on the subject, then don't say anything at all.

Thank you very much.

[UNDRPRVLGD_V2]

Has anyone ever had a bad episode due to the prescribed medication?

Suicidal thoughts or ideations?

[mavLP]

Sent you a pm.