Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

View Poll Results: Would you buy a new Cyborg?
Yes 68 86.08%
No 11 13.92%
Voters: 79. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-19-2020, 05:33 AM #64
Poppets 4 Life
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Even with user input it's not a guaranteed success. Success comes with the quality of the product and the customer service behind it.

I think if they made a good poppet, it will sell. I'm in the Facebook groups and people never shut up about wanting an lv2.

I say fill that void. Make something that puts the lv.x series to shame, and you'll make money hand over fist.

Give me a poppet that shoots smoother than my lv1 and I'll buy it.
Poppets 4 Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 02-19-2020, 09:45 AM #65
imped4now
BTFU
 
imped4now's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Indianapolis
 has been a member for 10 years
imped4now owns a Planet Eclipse CS1
imped4now supports Ninja Paintball
This is on my mind. Hear me out while I think outloud. I'd like some input on a Cyborg with the following characteristics:

1) XTS frame (and ASA/electronics), rear grip and foregrip - I'm a fan of these and think they'd suit a poppet nicely.

2) LPR - housed in a cylinder under the foregrip in a fashion similar to the C6. I think this will be necessary, given the market's demand for shot quality, plus I'm not sure MacDev has a solenoid that can reliably handle 150+ psi.

3) No more ram/valve cartridge - I did like this feature in the RX/C6, but it undoubtedly increases the height/width of the body. If MacDev moves to a rammer that utilizes the body as the sleeve (think LV1, G6R), they can reduce the height and width of the body, which I think is a fair compromise. Since their valves/cupseals are so reliable and never leak, that valve doesn't necessarily need to be accessible with no tools. Given that the body/frame will still have no wires between them, it wouldn't be hard to access if needed.

4) Simplified routing - no more separate subplate between the body/frame, so complexity and size can be reduced. With that said, I'm still trying to determine routing from the frame to the LPR/valve chamber and back to the solenoid without the use of a subplate. Possibly a full length frame that houses the passages.

5) Shot quality and efficiency of the 06/07 models - in my opinion, these shoot great even by today's standards and could pull almost a case from a 68. Using today's standard 77, crappy fills and big games/scenarios will not be an issue.

I'm liking this blueprint for the next Cyborg. How do others feel about it?
__________________
OLD FEEDBACK>>40+ 0-
OlllllllO
Don't be a turd.

Last edited by imped4now : 02-19-2020 at 12:11 PM.
imped4now is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2020, 12:02 AM #66
Fallinher0
Taking Power Tokens
 
Fallinher0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tracy, CA
 has been a member for 10 years
Fallinher0 donated to help Peyton Trent
1. Cant comment on the XTS comparison, but as a Prime owner, I think this would be great as the ergonomics are great.

3. ANYTHING that could make the height and width of the cyborg decrease would be great. My main gripe of the older cyborgs were how tall and bulky they felt. Tool-less doesn't mean much to me as long as its not too many steps to pull the rammer out to re-grease.

4. The subplate leaks on the older markers were a pain in the rear to mess with, but hopefully that wasn't as common with the more recent generations. Anything to simplify would be great.

5. The 06/07 models were the last cyborgs I've owned and the shot quality/efficiency on those were top notch so anything to bring it back to that would be great.

Should nothing else change, slimmer and slightly shorter profile that brings it comparable to the G6R would be the biggest selling point to someone like me.

I know I speak in layman's terms, but that's because I am a commoner.
__________________
Old Feedback
My "Curator" Thread
Never forget... Paintball is a LUXURY sport... calm down.
MacDev Prime
JT Impulse
Infinity Legend
Fallinher0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2020, 01:46 AM #67
Fallinher0
Taking Power Tokens
 
Fallinher0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tracy, CA
 has been a member for 10 years
Fallinher0 donated to help Peyton Trent
Damn I said “great” too many times but I’m exhausted so F-it.
__________________
Old Feedback
My "Curator" Thread
Never forget... Paintball is a LUXURY sport... calm down.
MacDev Prime
JT Impulse
Infinity Legend
Fallinher0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2020, 07:04 AM #68
imped4now
BTFU
 
imped4now's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Indianapolis
 has been a member for 10 years
imped4now owns a Planet Eclipse CS1
imped4now supports Ninja Paintball
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallinher0 View Post
1. Cant comment on the XTS comparison, but as a Prime owner, I think this would be great as the ergonomics are great.

3. ANYTHING that could make the height and width of the cyborg decrease would be great. My main gripe of the older cyborgs were how tall and bulky they felt. Tool-less doesn't mean much to me as long as its not too many steps to pull the rammer out to re-grease.

4. The subplate leaks on the older markers were a pain in the rear to mess with, but hopefully that wasn't as common with the more recent generations. Anything to simplify would be great.

5. The 06/07 models were the last cyborgs I've owned and the shot quality/efficiency on those were top notch so anything to bring it back to that would be great.

Should nothing else change, slimmer and slightly shorter profile that brings it comparable to the G6R would be the biggest selling point to someone like me.

I know I speak in layman's terms, but that's because I am a commoner.
Nope, that's great feedback. Thanks Ken.
__________________
OLD FEEDBACK>>40+ 0-
OlllllllO
Don't be a turd.
imped4now is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2020, 06:19 PM #69
Big Papa Pink
High-end Aficionado
 
Big Papa Pink's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: ATL
Annual Supporting Member
Big Papa Pink is BST Legit
Big Papa Pink owns a Planet Eclipse Geo
Big Papa Pink owns a Planet Eclipse Gtek
Big Papa Pink owns a Planet Eclipse - Emek MG100
Big Papa Pink supports DLX Technology
I'm not sure I have much to offer.

1. I wold like to see a smaller, tighter package. While there will be a certain requirement of height due to the stacked tube, I think there is some room to shrink the overall package a little.
2. I loved the electronics of the C6 and the ability to read pressures without a separate pressure tester. I would like to see (as I'm sure MacDev too) these transducers be more reliable and longer lived.
3. The C7 will need to be competitive to the LV in shot quality and efficiency. I would love to see G6r efficiency, but I would be willing to sacrifice some efficiency for shot quality. Achieve this with a hose-less design and you may have something.
4. A fully adjustable LPR. While users can get themselves in trouble, the pressure transducers should prevent issues running the LPR too low. Give those of us who are savvy adjust the shot to suit our tastes.

Something along the lines of the aforementioned requests would be a stacked tube I would be very interested in.
__________________
Domination through Saturation
Old and Slow

Current Dark Side Markers:
Active: Several Markers
Active Reserve: Many, Many More
Retired from Active Service: A Few limited edition yet fully functional markers
Big Papa Pink is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2020, 07:01 PM #70
Mr. Charlie
Dye DSR, M2, M3
 
Mr. Charlie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: FL
Mr. Charlie owns a Planet Eclipse - Emek
Mr. Charlie owns a Planet Eclipse - Emek
I agree with all of the above suggestions.

They should make it smaller, basically as close to single tube as possible.

I’d also like to see the Transducers again, which I thought were fixed?

Perhaps a Balanced Poppet Valve?

Definitely the LPR/HPR setup from the C6.
__________________
Gonna scare you up and shoot ya, cause Mr. Charlie told me so.
Mr. Charlie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2020, 04:09 PM #71
KronicCocker
 
 
KronicCocker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: 508
 has been a member for 10 years
Part of what I like about the cyborg line.. including the 6 is the size, it feels solid. I truly feel the biggest gripe and reason for the drop off of sales with the 6 was the transducer board failure rate. On multiple occasions macdev said they had a solution, I would purchase a board and a few months later it would fail. To this day I still own a c6 ( as well as an 07) because I love the shoot and feel in the hands. I think if they reverted back to the 06/07 internals, xts grip/foregrip/ electronics/asa/feedneck and ensure they get the transducer board issues addressed it would be a hit.
KronicCocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2020, 09:25 PM #72
SlaveAway
 
 
SlaveAway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
I don't think the transducers are worth it if they increase the price by a reasonable amount. I think the sweet spot for the price should be around $800. It shouldn't directly compete with the XTS or any high end marker.

Also might be an unpopular opinion but there should be no LPR and if there is, it shouldn't be adjustable. And again the bolt should be closed similar to the RX.

Anytime you mention macdev or ask someone's opinion they worry about reliability. Why not make the next cyborg literally bulletproof with less electronics and less points of failure at a reasonable and popular price point. Only thing that I'd worry about taking this approach is shot quality. Not sure what poppet designs can be used without an LPR that can rival a LV1...I'd say like a torque but it's not a poppet...and I don't think macdev taking the smart parts approach is the way to go...
SlaveAway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2020, 07:31 AM #73
imped4now
BTFU
 
imped4now's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Indianapolis
 has been a member for 10 years
imped4now owns a Planet Eclipse CS1
imped4now supports Ninja Paintball
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Papa Pink View Post
I'm not sure I have much to offer.

1. I wold like to see a smaller, tighter package. While there will be a certain requirement of height due to the stacked tube, I think there is some room to shrink the overall package a little.
2. I loved the electronics of the C6 and the ability to read pressures without a separate pressure tester. I would like to see (as I'm sure MacDev too) these transducers be more reliable and longer lived.
3. The C7 will need to be competitive to the LV in shot quality and efficiency. I would love to see G6r efficiency, but I would be willing to sacrifice some efficiency for shot quality. Achieve this with a hose-less design and you may have something.
4. A fully adjustable LPR. While users can get themselves in trouble, the pressure transducers should prevent issues running the LPR too low. Give those of us who are savvy adjust the shot to suit our tastes.

Something along the lines of the aforementioned requests would be a stacked tube I would be very interested in.
1) There is definitely room to reduce height. Ditching the subplates (and thus, transducer capability) would reduce body height by about 4mm.

2) You can kiss the transducers goodbye, methinks. MacDev will target simplicity and reliability with the next Cyborg. Transducers are a cool "feature" but unnecessary. And, they ultimately cost you size and complexity. I foresee MacDev potentially limiting the regulator adjustment windows and going the "X turns for Y psi" approach.

3) MacDev had shot quality and incredible efficiency figured out in 2006. I shot my 06 and 07 Cyborgs along with one of my G6R's (got all tuned in for an upcoming scenario) over the weekend back to back to back. The 06/07 Cyborgs shoot incredibly well and can hang with an LV or G6R all day in that category. They are also capable of shooting about 2000 balls from a full 68. Copy those characteristics over to the new marker and you're set.

4) I'm torn on this topic. Realistically, the operating window of an LPR-equipped marker is pretty small, especially if you want to tune for efficiency and reliability. The "magic number" for just about everything I have the ability to gauge is 70 psi. Once you start to drop down to 60ish psi, they become more susceptible to cold temps, become a little less consistent, and aside from an ever so slightly "softer" shot, there's nothing to gain. This is my generally my target for my Cyborgs, G6R's, Victories, and Vikings. My late model Angels can operate a bit lower because they have larger sail areas (I set them to about 60 psi). LV1's actually prefer closer to 80 psi. Personally, I view the LPR in a "set and forget" approach instead of a tool to tune, probably because once I'm on the field I couldn't care less about having the smoothest possible shot - but I do care about reliability, consistency and efficiency.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Charlie View Post
I agree with all of the above suggestions.

They should make it smaller, basically as close to single tube as possible.

Id also like to see the Transducers again, which I thought were fixed?

Perhaps a Balanced Poppet Valve?

Definitely the LPR/HPR setup from the C6.
Do you want a low height or transducers? Pick one.

If they ditch the valve cartridge and affix the valve to the body again, they could go balanced. I've always liked the JT Impulse valve design, myself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KronicCocker View Post
Part of what I like about the cyborg line.. including the 6 is the size, it feels solid. I truly feel the biggest gripe and reason for the drop off of sales with the 6 was the transducer board failure rate. On multiple occasions macdev said they had a solution, I would purchase a board and a few months later it would fail. To this day I still own a c6 ( as well as an 07) because I love the shoot and feel in the hands. I think if they reverted back to the 06/07 internals, xts grip/foregrip/ electronics/asa/feedneck and ensure they get the transducer board issues addressed it would be a hit.
I'm with you, except obviously I'd like to see the transducers go bye bye.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlaveAway View Post
I don't think the transducers are worth it if they increase the price by a reasonable amount. I think the sweet spot for the price should be around $800. It shouldn't directly compete with the XTS or any high end marker.

Also might be an unpopular opinion but there should be no LPR and if there is, it shouldn't be adjustable. And again the bolt should be closed similar to the RX.

Anytime you mention macdev or ask someone's opinion they worry about reliability. Why not make the next cyborg literally bulletproof with less electronics and less points of failure at a reasonable and popular price point. Only thing that I'd worry about taking this approach is shot quality. Not sure what poppet designs can be used without an LPR that can rival a LV1...I'd say like a torque but it's not a poppet...and I don't think macdev taking the smart parts approach is the way to go...
I don't think you'll see them ditch the LPR, even though the routing simplicity is really enticing. The challenges presented with no LPR are then:

How do we retain the shot quality we want?

Cycling dynamics are now tied to valve pressure

How do we reduce the pressure to the solenoid?

$800 seems awfully low. I think $1000-1100 is the right ballpark for a new high end poppet, providing that they are able to utilize some existing parts and tooling. New parts/designs and tooling costs a big chunk of change.

Awesome discussion. Keep it up.
__________________
OLD FEEDBACK>>40+ 0-
OlllllllO
Don't be a turd.
imped4now is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2020, 09:42 AM #74
SlaveAway
 
 
SlaveAway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by imped4now View Post

$800 seems awfully low. I think $1000-1100 is the right ballpark for a new high end poppet, providing that they are able to utilize some existing parts and tooling. New parts/designs and tooling costs a big chunk of change.

Awesome discussion. Keep it up.
Thinking about the LV1.6 price point $1000-1100 would definitely be fair. I keep mashing together shot quality and sound signature. I shot a DP Fusion FX and Ego 7 for a full summer each and I honestly think poppet shot quality is fine. It's mostly the sound signature that changes my perception of the shot. At least that's what it feels like. If it was a balanced poppet like the JT Impulse I'd have no complaints mine shot great. But I'm still against an adjustable LPR. Maybe some sort of flow restriction and a higher dwell could lower the acoustics?

Last edited by SlaveAway : 02-25-2020 at 09:49 AM. Reason: removed some use of honestly, because honestly I use honestly way to much.
SlaveAway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2020, 10:53 AM #75
imped4now
BTFU
 
imped4now's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Indianapolis
 has been a member for 10 years
imped4now owns a Planet Eclipse CS1
imped4now supports Ninja Paintball
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlaveAway View Post
Thinking about the LV1.6 price point $1000-1100 would definitely be fair. I keep mashing together shot quality and sound signature. I shot a DP Fusion FX and Ego 7 for a full summer each and I honestly think poppet shot quality is fine. It's mostly the sound signature that changes my perception of the shot. At least that's what it feels like. If it was a balanced poppet like the JT Impulse I'd have no complaints mine shot great. But I'm still against an adjustable LPR. Maybe some sort of flow restriction and a higher dwell could lower the acoustics?
If you've got an LPR, you've got to have *some* adjustment range, even if it's minimal. The LV LPR only gives a range from about 60-90 psi. MacDev could do the same thing and it would work just fine.

Other than a pressure regulator, I can't think of another method to reduce the pressure from the HPR ahead of the solenoid while giving some sort of adjustment, as well. Adjustable dwell isn't a good sole option since it won't do the same thing.

You either go no LPR, feed the solenoid HPR pressure and drop down to a 009 or 010 ram seal or you go with an LPR. I do believe they'll lean toward the latter.
__________________
OLD FEEDBACK>>40+ 0-
OlllllllO
Don't be a turd.
imped4now is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump