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Old 07-08-2018, 08:24 PM #1660
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Originally Posted by FoidPoosening View Post
I have no problem at all with NY's gun laws. I think in densely populated areas things should be much more regulated. The use for a personal firearm in greater NYC is near zero, and is certainly zero in Manhattan proper.

However, I totally understand why it makes sense to have more freedom and less regulation around guns in rural areas, as the population is less dense and the potential uses for them are much more varied.

I think it's unfortunate that both sides of the gun debate try and apply blanket solutions across the whole country. I definitely think it should be more nuanced based on what your locality looks like.



Even right answers can be wrong. Reminds me of multiple choice questions that say "which of these is the best answer" when two of them are correct but one is more correct than another.

Okay, yes. gun laws should be nuanced based on the situation. however. when you look at Chicago, and their almost complete firearms ban they implemented, it sure hasn't done much for their murder rate year after year.

California's "evil features" nonsense about AR's is another excellent example. Pistol grips, barrel shrouds, and forward grips do nothing to affect the performance of a semi automatic rifle. furthermore, the same basic firing mechanism, and caliber can be found in the Ruger Mini 14. only discernible difference between an AR and this rifle is one has a traditional rifle stock, and the other has some scary FDE or black attachments.

less than 2% of ALL gun crime as reported by the FBI is committed with a rifle. that means that NINETY EIGHT PERCENT of gun crime is committed with pistols and shotguns. but our "common sense" gun legislation wants to target scary looking rifles.

The second amendment as decided in DC v. Heller ALLOWS FOR THE PERSONAL KEEPING OF A FIREARM UNRELATED TO A MILITIA. whether the uses for a firearm in downtown NY are diminished or not, it is still a right granted by the Constitution.

The Bill of Rights was not called the Bill of Privileges.

When it comes to rural areas vs. urban areas, unfortunately, Downtown NY dictates what upstate NY does. much in the same way only 3 urban centers on the west coast decide the remainder of California's laws. The representatives from major metropolitan areas (usually vote democrat) dominate the state legislature, and push items that affect the entire state, not just the inner city.












https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distri...mbia_v._Heller

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...006-story.html
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Old 07-08-2018, 11:02 PM #1661
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Old 07-09-2018, 07:18 AM #1662
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Busy! Between training for a new position at work and planning my wedding, not much free time anymore
YOURE GETTING MARRIED?!?
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Come on. U don't actually work
Bruh. You know as well as I do with government work, we work 65% of the time...100% of the time. Lol
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Okay, yes. gun laws should be nuanced based on the situation. however. when you look at Chicago, and their almost complete firearms ban they implemented, it sure hasn't done much for their murder rate year after year.

California's "evil features" nonsense about AR's is another excellent example. Pistol grips, barrel shrouds, and forward grips do nothing to affect the performance of a semi automatic rifle. furthermore, the same basic firing mechanism, and caliber can be found in the Ruger Mini 14. only discernible difference between an AR and this rifle is one has a traditional rifle stock, and the other has some scary FDE or black attachments.

less than 2% of ALL gun crime as reported by the FBI is committed with a rifle. that means that NINETY EIGHT PERCENT of gun crime is committed with pistols and shotguns. but our "common sense" gun legislation wants to target scary looking rifles.

The second amendment as decided in DC v. Heller ALLOWS FOR THE PERSONAL KEEPING OF A FIREARM UNRELATED TO A MILITIA. whether the uses for a firearm in downtown NY are diminished or not, it is still a right granted by the Constitution.

The Bill of Rights was not called the Bill of Privileges.

When it comes to rural areas vs. urban areas, unfortunately, Downtown NY dictates what upstate NY does. much in the same way only 3 urban centers on the west coast decide the remainder of California's laws. The representatives from major metropolitan areas (usually vote democrat) dominate the state legislature, and push items that affect the entire state, not just the inner city.












https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distri...mbia_v._Heller

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...006-story.html
Inb4 infraction for scary black rifle post
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Old 07-09-2018, 08:36 AM #1663
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Okay, yes. gun laws should be nuanced based on the situation. however. when you look at Chicago, and their almost complete firearms ban they implemented, it sure hasn't done much for their murder rate year after year.
Chicago's not as strict as NYC is. 10 years ago they had an outright ban. not anymore. now its just a ****hole domestic warzone

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California's "evil features" nonsense about AR's is another excellent example. Pistol grips, barrel shrouds, and forward grips do nothing to affect the performance of a semi automatic rifle. furthermore, the same basic firing mechanism, and caliber can be found in the Ruger Mini 14. only discernible difference between an AR and this rifle is one has a traditional rifle stock, and the other has some scary FDE or black attachments.
That is exactly what it is. the SCARY PARTS ban. Thats all NY is as well. its bull****.

Also, 95% of these gun control "advocates" Dont even know what they are trying to ban;
https://www.facebook.com/LibertyHang...8928937654018/

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less than 2% of ALL gun crime as reported by the FBI is committed with a rifle. that means that NINETY EIGHT PERCENT of gun crime is committed with pistols and shotguns. but our "common sense" gun legislation wants to target scary looking rifles.
GTFO with your statistics. Scary guns must go!

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The second amendment as decided in DC v. Heller ALLOWS FOR THE PERSONAL KEEPING OF A FIREARM UNRELATED TO A MILITIA. whether the uses for a firearm in downtown NY are diminished or not, it is still a right granted by the Constitution.
MOAR STATISTICS STAHP WITH THE FACTS

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The Bill of Rights was not called the Bill of Privileges.



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When it comes to rural areas vs. urban areas, unfortunately, Downtown NY dictates what upstate NY does. much in the same way only 3 urban centers on the west coast decide the remainder of California's laws. The representatives from major metropolitan areas (usually vote democrat) dominate the state legislature, and push items that affect the entire state, not just the inner city.
there is a movement pushing across NY to force NYC, Long island, and up to Albany to break-off and become their own (Communist) State, New York. The Rest of the state would then become New Amsterdam.



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YOURE GETTING MARRIED?!?
Bruh...if you'd come around more than 1x a year, you'd be up on this ****.

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Bruh. You know as well as I do with government work, we work 65% of the time...100% of the time. Lol
I'd go more with 55%...

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Inb4 infraction for scary black rifle post
:Whispers: im so scared right now....







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Old 07-09-2018, 09:22 AM #1664
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I feel ya. Iíve been the same way minus kids. Lol
What do you do for work?
I posted that up a page or two back. Have a look if you'd like.
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Busy! Between training for a new position at work and planning my wedding, not much free time anymore
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Old 07-09-2018, 09:55 AM #1665
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To be completely honest, I'm way more against outright bans of gun compared to restrictive legislation, like making them harder to get. wat bothers me more than about anything else is when lawmakers decide to regulate something they have no idea about (here comes the classic "what does AR stand for" question). If you can't even make educated statements on firearms, what makes you think you're qualified to make legislation on them? This can be applied to many more subjects than just firearms.

Politicians can't be well versed in every subject they'll have to deal with, that's what advsors are for. But when have you ever heard of a politician working to make policy with a firearms expert? If you have than please let me know.

Can you imagine what would happen if healthcare was treated the same way? Some people will argue that it already is (my father, he's a surgeon) but obviously no where near to the level that firearms are.

You have people who are writing policy based on personal, social, or emotional opinions of firearms. I believe for the most part this issue has been mishandled, as this only really comes to the front page when there is a shooting or some other tragic incident.

I feel like firearms are treated more as a political rally cry of sorts, to gain votes because politicians know people are stupid, they see it as "no guns vs. all the guns" issue. There's middle ground, and I highly doubt the answer to the problem lies at either of those extremes

I'm rambling here, and probably make no sense, but essentially I'm trying to say we need to find some sort of compromise that allows deserving and responsible people to own the firearm of their choosing
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Old 07-09-2018, 10:35 AM #1666
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Old 07-09-2018, 10:42 AM #1667
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Copenhagen is where I had the absolute best soft-serve ice cream I've ever had. Right off a street vendor too! Oh, it was soooo good. I want some now. Dammit.
Yeah, I would absolutely love to go back to Copenhagen. One of my best friends studied there.

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Bingo. It's in our Constitution and I'll be damned if ANYONE tells me how I can/cannot defend myself and my family. The problem is lack of education & training, not too many guns.

I completely disagree with firearm regulation being based on population density. Some dense areas can have low crime where others have tons of it. I mean, just about any other major city is safer than Chicago. Also see my first paragraph in this post.

However, I completely agree with your thoughts regarding blanket policies. The states are capable of tending to the people faster and more efficiently than the federal government. The states need more power. The fed should tend to the major national issues and international matters (foreign policy, international trade, and whatnot) and allow the states to take care of the people. The levels of diversity, landmass, and population in the US make it damn near impossible for a central government to take care of the people, much less make them happy with blanket policies. This is why socialism works in smaller, less populated countries and not in larger, more populated ones. Plus there's the factors of individualism and American exceptionalism. Culture plays a huge role. Take Japan, for example. They preach non-violence, so they really don't need guns due to their low crime rates. Not that they allow guns anyway, but still. That's simply not going to happen in a country of this level of diversity, population, and geographic size.

That, and my guns put food on my family's table. I'm not going to the supermarket to buy meat if I can get it myself for a fraction of the price. My deer gun is more than paid for; it means more money in the bank for me. People complain about the cost of living but many of them don't grow, raise, or shoot their own food. Hunting is a very economical way of feeding ones self.
I agree that lack of education and training is a big issue. Most people know very little about firearms, but feel strongly about them one way or the other. Unfortunately, I think this is also true of a litany of other political issues.

When I was referring to population density, I meant it more as a means of a benchmark. A firearm in a house on a rural homestead vs. in a highrise apartment complex in a major metropolitan area are totally different in both potential usefulness and potential hazards. Chicago would obviously be an exception, and I'm no expert on Chicago in general either.

However, given what you said above about A) firearms to defend oneself B)hunting with firearms, would you agree that a gun is essentially a tool?

If so, I think i'd frame my thinking in this way:

List of countries by vehicles per capita
Country Motor vehicles per 1,000 people
1 San Marino 1,263
2 United States 910
3 Monaco 899
4 New Zealand 774

The 10 countries with the most guns
USA - 112.6 guns per 100 residents.
Serbia - 75.6
Yemen - 54.8
Switzerland - 45.7
Cyprus - 36.4

If a firearm is fundamentally a tool, similar to how a car is a tool (means of transportation), I'd argue the US does actually have too many firearms and too many cars. There are more firearms than people, and almost as many cars as people in this country.

And this is a big country, both in size of geography and population. Notice how most of the countries and both of the lists above are, at their largest, around 1/10th of the USA? What I'm alluding to is that both the gross and the per capita amount of firearms and cars in the USA is extremely high. I think both goods are healthy and useful for the USA, but maybe not in such high concentrations.

Sorry if that's a strange comparison or line of thought. I actually really like shooting firearms from time to time, and really enjoy vintage cars and driving in general. Though because I live in NYC, I really don't have a use for either of them. I hope that was clear, It's easy to get sucked into the "ban all guns" or "we can never have too many guns" rhetoric that gets pushed by both political parties. I also really appreciate you for putting politics aside and explaining your thoughts as well.

Lastly, I'm glad we both agree that a blanket solution is not the answer. I also completely agree about your contrast of the USA and Japan. Totally different outcomes because each respective country has had a drastically different history concerning firearms.

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Yeah, work is busy. If we're really truckin' we can crank out close to a million pounds of finished product in a 12hr shift. Now imagine how much raw you'd have to go through to achieve that.
What do you do for work? If I asked you this once before just skip it It's been a long weekend lol.

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Figured that’d be the answer
What's with the rolled eyes? O.o


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You have people who are writing policy based on personal, social, or emotional opinions of firearms. I believe for the most part this issue has been mishandled, as this only really comes to the front page when there is a shooting or some other tragic incident.

I feel like firearms are treated more as a political rally cry of sorts, to gain votes because politicians know people are stupid, they see it as "no guns vs. all the guns" issue. There's middle ground, and I highly doubt the answer to the problem lies at either of those extremes

I'm rambling here, and probably make no sense, but essentially I'm trying to say we need to find some sort of compromise that allows deserving and responsible people to own the firearm of their choosing
I couldn't agree with you more. See my part right before earlier in this post.

One could ever say the gun control debate has been weaponized in politics. Pun intented.
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Old 07-09-2018, 11:11 AM #1668
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Inb4 infraction for scary black rifle post
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:Whispers: im so scared right now....
Oh come on now, we love guns! I am a proud second amendment supporter and concealed carry permit holder. I love my new Urban Carry holster.

https://urbancarryholsters.com/urban...CE1wQAv D_BwE

It's not the fastest drawing holster, but it's better than not carrying. Due to my job, I don't have a lot of easy ways to conceal regularly and not risk it being noticed by customers, especially when I'm at their residence. But this holster took care of that.
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Old 07-09-2018, 11:39 AM #1669
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I posted that up a page or two back. Have a look if you'd like.
Your job sounds cool! Iíd be fat af working around potatoes all the time though lol

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What's with the rolled eyes?
I tend to be on the side that gun laws are infringements and are merely set into place as a means of gaining revenue or exploiting the masses. I also trust the government as far as I can pick the state of GA up and throw it. So I suppose that skews my views some.

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Oh come on now, we love guns! I am a proud second amendment supporter and concealed carry permit holder. I love my new Urban Carry holster.

https://urbancarryholsters.com/urban...CE1wQAv D_BwE

It's not the fastest drawing holster, but it's better than not carrying. Due to my job, I don't have a lot of easy ways to conceal regularly and not risk it being noticed by customers, especially when I'm at their residence. But this holster took care of that.
Interesting. Ever looked at tier one holsters? Theyíre expensive but comfortable af. I appendix carry a Glock 19 with a tlr-1 tac light and an extra magazine. Itís virtually unidentifiable.
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Old 07-09-2018, 11:43 AM #1670
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I tend to be on the side that gun laws are infringements and are merely set into place as a means of gaining revenue or exploiting the masses. I also trust the government as far as I can pick the state of GA up and throw it. So I suppose that skews my views some.
That's fair. Hmm, I do think thought there are many other things one could point to in this country that are much more aggressive means of gaining revenue or exploiting masses.
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Old 07-09-2018, 11:45 AM #1671
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Interesting. Ever looked at tier one holsters? They’re expensive but comfortable af. I appendix carry a Glock 19 with a tlr-1 tac light and an extra magazine. It’s virtually unidentifiable.
Those looks like they'd have the same issue. If it sits above my beltline it's pretty much guaranteed at some point I'm going to make a movement that lifts my shirt. otherwise I'd have to start always wearing longer shirts. But we do a lot of site layouts with the customer present, so there is a lot of bending/squatting, etc that moves the shirt around.

I'm also a big fan of https://n82tactical.com/

I'll wear that one when I'm going places where I don't want to just open carry, but it's not a big deal if it gets noticed.
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Old 07-09-2018, 11:54 AM #1672
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I really need to get my carry license. No point in owning my gun if I cant carry imo
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Old 07-09-2018, 12:02 PM #1673
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That's fair. Hmm, I do think thought there are many other things one could point to in this country that are much more aggressive means of gaining revenue or exploiting masses.
I 100% agree on the gaining revenue part, but I 100% disagree on the exploiting the masses. Name an easier way to exploit and control a group of people than unarming them. A group that cannot defend themselves are totally at the mercy of those in power.
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Those looks like they'd have the same issue. If it sits above my beltline it's pretty much guaranteed at some point I'm going to make a movement that lifts my shirt. otherwise I'd have to start always wearing longer shirts. But we do a lot of site layouts with the customer present, so there is a lot of bending/squatting, etc that moves the shirt around.

I'm also a big fan of https://n82tactical.com/

I'll wear that one when I'm going places where I don't want to just open carry, but it's not a big deal if it gets noticed.
Ahhhh okay. That makes sense. I wasnít thinking about the constantly moving part.

I donít open carry. I wouldnít at work if I didnít absolutely have to. But I understand the argument that some make for it. I just prefer an element of surprise over the blatant exercise of rights (tactically speaking).
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Old 07-09-2018, 12:05 PM #1674
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I really need to get my carry license. No point in owning my gun if I cant carry imo
Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.
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Old 07-09-2018, 12:14 PM #1675
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Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.
Exactly my thought. Doesn't do me any good sitting at home
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Old 07-09-2018, 12:24 PM #1676
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I 100% agree on the gaining revenue part, but I 100% disagree on the exploiting the masses. Name an easier way to exploit and control a group of people than unarming them. A group that cannot defend themselves are totally at the mercy of those in power.
This seems vague to me. Who would be exploiting and controlling whom if who was unarmed?

PS: Not supporting disarmament, but curious what the logic is here.
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Old 07-09-2018, 12:40 PM #1677
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Originally Posted by WhoStoleMyTaters View Post
Exactly my thought. Doesn't do me any good sitting at home
Or in your vehicle. Hard to tell an active killer to stop while you run and get your gun.
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Originally Posted by FoidPoosening View Post
This seems vague to me. Who would be exploiting and controlling whom if who was unarmed?

PS: Not supporting disarmament, but curious what the logic is here.
Thatís a fair question.
My answer will still be somewhat vague, but for the purposes of this: anyone with a means to control. That could manifest itself as the government, an occupying force, local issues like gang/violent mobs, Etc.
The government in general is self-serving. Whether that means money or power. I truly believe that having an armed populace regulates the government. Sure, Joe Bob and his AR1-15 could never take on the government. But the sheer number of guns in the hands of American citizens has to be at least somewhat of a deterrent to our government and other governments (occupying forces). Look at the rifle behind every blade of grass arguement.
Iíd cite/come up with a better supported argument if I were on a computer. Itís a pain in the *** to type all this on my phone at a side job rn, so I apologize for that. Lmfao
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Old 07-09-2018, 03:04 PM #1678
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Originally Posted by impulseballer42586 View Post
Oh come on now, we love guns! I am a proud second amendment supporter and concealed carry permit holder. I love my new Urban Carry holster.
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Originally Posted by impulseballer42586 View Post
It's not the fastest drawing holster, but it's better than not carrying. Due to my job, I don't have a lot of easy ways to conceal regularly and not risk it being noticed by customers, especially when I'm at their residence. But this holster took care of that.
Im too fat to appendix carry...need to make some gainz

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Originally Posted by paintballer045 View Post
I’d be fat af working around potatoes all the time though lol
Legitimate statement.

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Originally Posted by paintballer045 View Post
It’s a trap. Don’t do it
While It does have its benefits...its still a trap.

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Originally Posted by paintballer045 View Post
I tend to be on the side that gun laws are infringements and are merely set into place as a means of gaining revenue or exploiting the masses. I also trust the government as far as I can pick the state of GA up and throw it. So I suppose that skews my views some.
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Originally Posted by paintballer045 View Post
I appendix carry a Glock 19 with a tlr-1 tac light and an extra magazine. It’s virtually unidentifiable.
too fat fo dat...

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Originally Posted by WhoStoleMyTaters View Post
I really need to get my carry license. No point in owning my gun if I cant carry imo
Isnt NC an Open Carry state?

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Originally Posted by paintballer045 View Post
I 100% agree on the gaining revenue part, but I 100% disagree on the exploiting the masses. Name an easier way to exploit and control a group of people than unarming them. A group that cannot defend themselves are totally at the mercy of those in power.
+1

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Originally Posted by paintballer045 View Post
Ahhhh okay. That makes sense. I wasn’t thinking about the constantly moving part.
This is why we switched to Open carry for work. why scare the residents when they can see it when you walk in the door

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Originally Posted by paintballer045 View Post
I don’t open carry. I wouldn’t at work if I didn’t absolutely have to. But I understand the argument that some make for it. I just prefer an element of surprise over the blatant exercise of rights (tactically speaking).
Only have the option to Open carry at work. Damn this commie state...


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Originally Posted by paintballer045 View Post
Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.
<3

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Originally Posted by paintballer045 View Post
Or in your vehicle. Hard to tell an active killer to stop while you run and get your gun.
An actual argument I had to have with politicians...

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Originally Posted by paintballer045 View Post
That’s a fair question.
My answer will still be somewhat vague, but for the purposes of this: anyone with a means to control. That could manifest itself as the government, an occupying force, local issues like gang/violent mobs, Etc.
The government in general is self-serving. Whether that means money or power. I truly believe that having an armed populace regulates the government. Sure, Joe Bob and his AR1-15 could never take on the government. But the sheer number of guns in the hands of American citizens has to be at least somewhat of a deterrent to our government and other governments (occupying forces). Look at the rifle behind every blade of grass arguement.
while the "Blade of Grass" argument is a good 1, the original source is questionable at best. Yammamoto saying it cannot be substantiated, but however, I do feel that it is a major deterrant to ANY potential occupying force.
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Old 07-09-2018, 03:14 PM #1679
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^^^is why I love you Opie


The open carry thing blows. I didn’t know they let hose draggers carry at all? They don’t around here. We even have a tac med team attached to a sister SWAT team, but they’re unarmed. Silly.
I wear dress clothes or a t shirt & 5.11 pants 99% of the time. So the exact same set up off duty would be perfect on duty for me too. Buuuuut I can’t
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Old 07-09-2018, 03:49 PM #1680
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Originally Posted by paintballer045 View Post
^^^is why I love you Opie [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.pbnation.com/images/smilies/blush.gif[/IMG]


The open carry thing blows. I didnt know they let hose draggers carry at all? They don’t around here. We even have a tac med team attached to a sister SWAT team, but they;re unarmed. Silly.
I wear dress clothes or a t shirt & 5.11 pants 99% of the time. So the exact same set up off duty would be perfect on duty for me too. Buuuuut I cant
Im a Volunteer House Dragger. Lol
My real Job as Fire Inspector now requires armament. Currently carrying a gen4 G23, and a G27 on the Ankle. I’ve only needed to remove my 23 from the Holster 1x in the last 18mo for work, and that was to cover an officer that was handcuffing a guy at a Squatter raid
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