do all pumps have roll out ?

ekkthree · 11-30-2018, 05:27 PM

i was going to get a kp3 to try pump but i think i see that it places the detents similar to the empire sniper/resurrection. that's the main reason i sold my ressy was the rollouts and odd barrel matching with different paints. with a pump a big part of that would be accuracy but it seems there would always be some type of compromise between good bore match and broken paint.
do all pumps operate this way or are there any that will hold the ball with a detent?

honculada · 11-30-2018, 05:51 PM

Any closed bolt marker does this. Ressy is accurate as any pump. With any closed bolt you have to underbore to prevent rollouts.

Pyrate Jim · 12-01-2018, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ekkthree

do all pumps operate this way or are there any that will hold the ball with a detent?

An AutoMag with a pump kit has a working detent.

Or you can do like I do, which is to not pump a ball into the barrel until I'm ready to pull the trigger.

bnjp8ntball · 12-02-2018, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyrate Jim

Or you can do like I do, which is to not pump a ball into the barrel until I'm ready to pull the trigger.

I'd be curious to know how many players do this vs shoot then pump immediately. I guess either way works as long as it has become enough of a habit that you don't need to think twice about it.

Lt Gibby · 12-02-2018, 08:26 AM

That's what I do, pump then shoot.

aclark364 · 12-02-2018, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnjp8ntball

I'd be curious to know how many players do this vs shoot then pump immediately. I guess either way works as long as it has become enough of a habit that you don't need to think twice about it.

I try to only pump when im ready to shoot. but shooting a blank is the worst. a good barrel kit is worth the investment. if you want a good one that's not expensive the empire sniper/ ressi kits are great

ekkthree · 12-02-2018, 02:14 PM

I had the full ressy kit as well as a complete freak and complete set of shaft5 backs at one point. Problem wasnt the barrel. It was inconsistent paint. Get a perfect match and it only takes one bad one to break in the gun. Issue is that i was required to underbore to prevent rollouts. Drove me nuts

honculada · 12-02-2018, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ekkthree

I had the full ressy kit as well as a complete freak and complete set of shaft5 backs at one point. Problem wasnt the barrel. It was inconsistent paint. Get a perfect match and it only takes one bad one to break in the gun. Issue is that i was required to underbore to prevent rollouts. Drove me nuts

Then don't underbore. I had barrel breaks with paint/bore matching thats why I carry a barrel swap.

gospeedgo1 · 12-04-2018, 11:42 PM

With the increase in inconsistent paint size and decrease in quality for some brands, I have tried Tape (e.g electrical tape) and fishing line detents with success. I recently received some 3D printed wedgits to try out. Look into these and nail polish detents as an alternative when sizing paint to your preference is not working.

Super69ur · 12-05-2018, 02:05 PM

99% of pumps are closed bolt. Thus 99% load a ball past the detent, unless modified, or with aftermarket parts.

Size the barrel to lightly hold the paint. Not squeeze the paint. Inconsistencies will be wasted shots one way or another... just gotta load and shoot again.

Murz · 12-07-2018, 02:26 PM

I've got to the point where I'd rather have roll outs than barrel breaks, so I don't under-bore anymore. I try to pump when I'm about to shoot, but I like to post up on people sometimes - so that doesn't work as well in those situations. Nothing ruins my day more than breaking paint inside my pump.

morph2k4 · 12-10-2018, 12:04 AM

I figure the CCI detent rings should work on any gun:

https://phantomonline.com/product/pa...tent-ring-kit/

honculada · 12-10-2018, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morph2k4

I figure the CCI detent rings should work on any gun:

https://phantomonline.com/product/pa...tent-ring-kit/

CCI detents are to prevent double feeding not rollouts.

spece108 · 12-17-2018, 07:33 AM

CCI detent rings, fitted into the breech, come in a variety of sizes for different paint. Since a phantom is a breech drop marker, with the bolt closed the ball sits right behind the barrel. A properly sized detent ring should hold the ball in place. In practice, I'm not a big fan but others are. The ASP phantom detents work great. The body is milled for 2 detents, first one stops double feeds with small paint, second one holds the ball in place with the bolt closed.

For my phantom builds, I drill the body for a rubber nub/spyder/timmy style detent for double feeds and use a freak bored barrel. There is a certain situational awareness to pump play, especially nelson valve guns, that involves feeling a barrel into the breech, not dipping your barrel or keeping it a few degrees up. A little more than just pumping, comes with practice. Was pretty standard before the space gun era. This maybe the first introduction for newer players.

So use the best bore size on the barrel. Try the new breech inserts if you like. I don't care for them due to the barrel cleaning issues. Palmers sells the metal ones. A bunch of folks sell 3d printed ones. But eventually, we all get use to keeping our tip up. Sometimes, you will break paint. It's brittle now a days. I'll take it because they will break on target. Getting hits with pump guns is hard enough. F bouncers! I carry a stiff squeegee on a lanyard and a swab on each leg.

3DSteve · 12-22-2018, 10:38 AM

I’ve always bored my paint to properly prevent rollouts and never had a significant problem with breaks. Are you using the best paint you can get your hands on? Waiting to chamber a ball until you know you’re going to shoot will likely lead to you missing more shots than an occasional rollout would. It’s a good practice to always be prepared for another shot (obviously easier with open class than stock).
Paint will (very occasionally) break in your gun no matter what you do...overbore, underbore, whatever.
Buy the best paint you can and size it just a bit snug.

Mr Idiot Box · 12-23-2018, 11:36 PM

Shouldn’t get rollouts with properly bored paint. Bore options are key to pump play especially ones without detents.

mannym316 · 01-05-2019, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by honculada

Any closed bolt marker does this. Ressy is accurate as any pump. With any closed bolt you have to underbore to prevent rollouts.

. This. I usually run a .679 back and never have a problem with rollouts

gandhi77 · 01-07-2019, 05:18 PM

Pump ions and pump mags are probably the exception to the rollouts. I on the on the other hand have a spyder detent mod on my phantom by petty paintball which prevents rollouts but not double feeds. I used to try and underbore but the smallest insert I can find is .675. There are custom ones out there but they're not easy to find. With the .675 insert I find that I still have rollouts, the paint here is pretty small.

kman · 01-12-2019, 02:57 PM

I have the dual o-ring ASP mod on my Phantom, preventing rollouts & double feeds. The body on the frame keeps the o-rings in place. It's about the best mod I've seen for this on Phantoms and I love it.

Castro #66 · 01-14-2019, 08:41 PM

The Hammer7 has a pair of detents holding the ball before the barrel in a .692 breech. Any tighter bore than that used will likely result in splashes, not balls, coming from the end of the barrel.

No one has really devised a detent system that offers the total performance of a proper barrel kit in a closed bolt system... not for lack of trying.

SignOfZeta · 04-15-2019, 11:10 PM

I'm just now getting back into PB after nearly two decades. My gun back then, still, is an early PMI Trracer and I never knew what a roll out was until I just started reading this forum. Apparently when I gas this thing up and fill it with modern balls I'll learn all about it.