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Old 02-13-2020, 08:34 AM #2290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_real_kaz View Post
The DSR isn't as nice shooting as a well tuned quest IMO.
I don't know how you define "nice" (and I'm a big Quest fan), but I've never been able to get any of my Quests to shoot as smooth or as quiet as a DSR, and that includes with the 4B bolt. I like how Quests shoot, but I'm just saying.

Quests are awesome and have mad style points nowadays, but they're not particularly gentle on paint and have some of the worst ergonomics of any marker ever. I still use mine occasionally, but when I go from it to essentially anything else I'm just reminded of how poor the ergos are.

The fact that the Quest has an LPR to control the cycling supply really has nothing to do with anything. Put your finger in the breech of a Quest and a DSR and tell me which one hits your finger harder. Hint - it'll be the Quest every single time.

As for the bolt systems, they're really not very similar at all. One is balanced and the other is unbalanced, for starters. I'm not ****ting on you or the Quest, but there are more differences than similarities between the Quest and DSR. If I had to choose, give me the DSR every day of the week. The Quest is the better looking marker on the wall, but the DSR is the better paint thrower.
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Old 02-13-2020, 08:23 PM #2291
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the lpr/hpr vent mod was a huge help in getting it dialed in which was a relief because i hated the look of any other hp reg besides the factory one. also i did not mind the weight of the gun, but that said fitting it with a lighter hopper and tank that they make nowadays like the ninjas sl2 is probably going to help alot during those one handed reloads lol especially over my old fiberglass crossfire with the ugly stepchild magnadrive hopper
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Old 02-13-2020, 10:19 PM #2292
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Originally Posted by imped4now View Post
I don't know how you define "nice" (and I'm a big Quest fan), but I've never been able to get any of my Quests to shoot as smooth or as quiet as a DSR, and that includes with the 4B bolt. I like how Quests shoot, but I'm just saying.

Quests are awesome and have mad style points nowadays, but they're not particularly gentle on paint and have some of the worst ergonomics of any marker ever. I still use mine occasionally, but when I go from it to essentially anything else I'm just reminded of how poor the ergos are.

The fact that the Quest has an LPR to control the cycling supply really has nothing to do with anything. Put your finger in the breech of a Quest and a DSR and tell me which one hits your finger harder. Hint - it'll be the Quest every single time.

As for the bolt systems, they're really not very similar at all. One is balanced and the other is unbalanced, for starters. I'm not ****ting on you or the Quest, but there are more differences than similarities between the Quest and DSR. If I had to choose, give me the DSR every day of the week. The Quest is the better looking marker on the wall, but the DSR is the better paint thrower.

Great points. The DSR is nicer on paint for sure and better to hold. I mean come on we're comparing a 14ish old marker to a 2 year old marker. Obviously the DSR has improved over the quest/any marker from the mid 2000's. I wasn't saying that the quest is better than the DSR.

I was trying to say the actual "kick" of the quest is less. (that's what I am referring to as a nicer shot) That has a lot to do with the LPR. My quest's LPR is set at 80psi. Meaning I have less pressure returning the bolt and more weight in the quest it's self. That way I feel less or literally almost no kick. The DSR I think operates at like 120, so it's bolt return is like 50% higher pressure and it's lighter weight so it feels like it kicks a little more.

But honestly I've shot poorly tuned diablo wraths or Tippys or poppets that would literally vibrate the barrel off..... and still had a lot of fun.
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Old 02-14-2020, 07:00 AM #2293
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Operating Pressure and/or LPR Pressure really are not everything when it comes to Bolt speed and smoothness...

The DSR Bolt and Quest Bolts themselves are similar and you can see where John borrowed from the design a little. Even MadMan and RazGrizz2006 the YouTube reviewers and members here said the same thing about the Bolts being similar. I get that one is a FAASOR and the other is a Balanced Spool.

You can adjust the Bolt speed of the DSR by playing around with the number of 1st and 2nd Stage airflow holes in the Can. With only one 1st Stage airflow holes the DSR is super smooth shooting and really quiet too.

I’m sure something that helps with the Quest’s kick is the amount that it weighs compared with the DSR.
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Old 02-14-2020, 08:12 AM #2294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_real_kaz View Post
I was trying to say the actual "kick" of the quest is less. (that's what I am referring to as a nicer shot) That has a lot to do with the LPR. My quest's LPR is set at 80psi. Meaning I have less pressure returning the bolt and more weight in the quest it's self. That way I feel less or literally almost no kick. The DSR I think operates at like 120, so it's bolt return is like 50% higher pressure and it's lighter weight so it feels like it kicks a little more.
See below.
Quote:
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Operating Pressure and/or LPR Pressure really are not everything when it comes to Bolt speed and smoothness...
This.
Quote:
Originally Posted by imped4now View Post
The fact that the Quest has an LPR to control the cycling supply really has nothing to do with anything. Put your finger in the breech of a Quest and a DSR and tell me which one hits your finger harder. Hint - it'll be the Quest every single time.
Do this. Force is what matters.
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Old 02-14-2020, 12:57 PM #2295
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Originally Posted by imped4now View Post
See below.

This.

Do this. Force is what matters.
Idk, I'm doing it with my automag right now and getting no force... So is my automag softer shooting than the DSR???

Or is this flawed logic?
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Old 02-14-2020, 01:14 PM #2296
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Idk, I'm doing it with my automag right now and getting no force... So is my automag softer shooting than the DSR???

Or is this flawed logic?
My point is that the presence of the LPR with the Quest isn't *the reason* there's a difference between how it and the DSR feel when shooting, just as the LPR doesn't allow the bolt to cycle at a lower force than a marker without one.

This can be backed up by the fact that most of the "smoothest" markers ever have no LPR.
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Old 02-14-2020, 02:36 PM #2297
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Does your automag have the level 10 bolt? The one you can put your tongue in the breech with? Lol
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Old 02-14-2020, 05:03 PM #2298
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This can be backed up by the fact that most of the "smoothest" markers ever have no LPR.
e.g. the chrome
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Old 02-14-2020, 11:47 PM #2299
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Meh. I'm still a believer in an LPR. If you put an Lpr on a modern marker that shot at 120 psi (vs 300+psi like most old school markers) you could see some improvement.

Having a marker use 120 psi forward and like 80 psi backwards on the bolt would be a cool idea. Could improve modern markers even more.

Although, the real reason I like the idea of an LPR probably comes from the ability to tune markers. Now a days modern markers all shoot the same. Every DSR shoots great out of the box. Not all quests shot great or even good out of the box, but modern markers can't be tuned. I remember buying a marker and shooting a case out of it to tune it to be "my marker". Getting the lpr and board settings to my liking and then rolling with it because it was mine.. Modern markers all shoot great (I'm not trying to say they are bad) they just don't have the soul of older markers.
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Old 02-14-2020, 11:48 PM #2300
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And yes I have a level 10.
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Old 02-15-2020, 08:02 AM #2301
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Meh. I'm still a believer in an LPR. If you put an Lpr on a modern marker that shot at 120 psi (vs 300+psi like most old school markers) you could see some improvement.
Highly arguable.
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Old 02-17-2020, 05:07 PM #2302
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^Agreed.

Plus a LPR wouldn’t work with the DSR. Also, like I already said like 100 times lol, the DSR shot quality is adjustable by opening and closing the 1st and 2nd Stage airflow holes - this is essentially flow restriction.

Flow restriction is another way to control Bolt speed (Force) without the use of an LPR. Like P.E.’s SFR or the Flex Flow Can for the DSR.

LPRs were also mainly used in the older days because the Solenoids couldn’t handle high pressures, which isn’t really a problem now that most manufacturers are making their own Solenoids.



It would be interesting and I would definitely like to see what an LPR or Flow Restrictors would do for the M3 series...
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Old 02-18-2020, 07:51 AM #2303
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The BW solenoid was essentially a flow restriction. I want to change the bolt itself on the m3 when it gets redesigned.
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Old 02-18-2020, 08:42 PM #2304
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I realize that...

I guess I should have said Adjustable Flow Restrictors.

One of the best things about the M2 is the adjustable shot quality. It makes sense to me to make the M3 series shot quality Adjustable (somehow) too.
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Old 02-19-2020, 07:56 AM #2305
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It wasn't that easy. There are some nuances in the solenoid performance and if you look closely, the pilot is actually fed from the shot chamber instead of the input supply. This essentially locks the dwell. In some of the early prototypes the bolt reset was actually outrunning the valve and they were hitting multiple times. Some things sound good in theory, but don't work in practice. I do have an idea for the bolt design which would give more volume without the internal body pocket, but we'll see what happens. I originally designed the gun with a slightly larger tube diameter to get the volume, but Billy wanted the gun thinner so we compromised with the pockets. Anyway, I think it could be improved... I had one prototype saving like 55psi each shot and shooting 300fps at 110psi. I just couldn't time the valve reset.
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Old 02-19-2020, 06:59 PM #2306
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If they stretch the Marker out like they did with the Rize CZR then you could use the extra space for your larger shot chamber volume with no more body pockets.

The Bolt System would be slightly longer overall, but mainly just the rear part of the Valve Core between the rear of the Top Hat and Valve Core Front Orings I’m thinking...
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Old 02-20-2020, 07:25 AM #2307
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I tried to add a little length to the DSR and the m3, but Billy insists that the spacing is a dye thing. I was never in a position to argue it.
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Old 02-20-2020, 01:12 PM #2308
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Have you seen the Rize CZR?

It’s about a 1/2” longer between the Regulator and Trigger Frame than the old Rizes.

But it appears as if Billy just moved the Reg forwards...
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Old 02-20-2020, 02:04 PM #2309
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Have you seen the Rize CZR?

Its about a 1/2 longer between the Regulator and Trigger Frame than the old Rizes.

But it appears as if Billy just moved the Reg forwards...
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Old Yesterday, 05:32 PM #2310
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Should I even bother trying to sell stuff on here or should I go over to MCB? I hate messing with facebook groups since it's like 10 different pages to try and keep up with. I know last time I tried selling masks on marketplace they (facebook) flagged the ad saying it was "against policy"
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