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Old 01-04-2014, 10:42 AM #64
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I wonder what the emissions are from making the thing is vs. it's lifetime in burning wood.
What people used before was essentially a campfire. Much of the heat escapes. A Metal plate over the open fire. This is an enclosed stove so the heat is contained inside the sheet metal stove.

To reduce smoke, people preferred to use charcoal which requires heat and wood to make. They are experimenting with chimneys on them to allow people to use straw, grass, etc. and keep the smoke out of their house. Seeing how well it is accepted by the people.

We ALL don't adjust well to change. I remember resisting FAX Machines. A stamp was fine with me. I could buy a LOT of stamps for the price of a fax machine and the long distance charges to send them.

Then fax machines got mostly obsolete...
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Old 01-04-2014, 11:22 AM #65
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I still send letters, and write checks. I must be some kind of hipster.
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Old 01-04-2014, 02:21 PM #66
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I still send letters, and write checks. I must be some kind of hipster.
no you're just old as ****
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Old 01-04-2014, 02:45 PM #67
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Originally Posted by Boom Master View Post
What people used before was essentially a campfire. Much of the heat escapes. A Metal plate over the open fire. This is an enclosed stove so the heat is contained inside the sheet metal stove.

To reduce smoke, people preferred to use charcoal which requires heat and wood to make. They are experimenting with chimneys on them to allow people to use straw, grass, etc. and keep the smoke out of their house. Seeing how well it is accepted by the people.
So you don't have an answer, just a handwaving point about how burning wood is inefficient.
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Old 01-04-2014, 04:11 PM #68
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my father in law was telling me about some contraption you can buy that projects the heat generated by the fire place into the home rather than losing it through das chimney, ja?
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Old 01-04-2014, 07:38 PM #69
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Well... Ceramic glass doors aren't right enough to prevent back drafts, grates and radiators are crazy dangerous, so that leaves a fireplace insert. Those are pretty much wood stovesinside chimneys.
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Old 01-04-2014, 11:09 PM #70
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my father in law was telling me about some contraption you can buy that projects the heat generated by the fire place into the home rather than losing it through das chimney, ja?
I would like to know more about this.
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Old 01-05-2014, 02:21 AM #71
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my father in law was telling me about some contraption you can buy that projects the heat generated by the fire place into the home rather than losing it through das chimney, ja?
I have a gas insert.

press switch, have glorious warmth.
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Old 01-05-2014, 01:44 PM #72
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I would like to know more about this.
It's called a wood stove.

There are also some wood fire boilers available. Super efficient, but very smokey and therefore not good for residential situations. Good for barns and other places without neighbors.
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Old 01-05-2014, 04:08 PM #73
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Interdasting....
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Old 01-08-2014, 11:32 AM #74
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global warming... haha!

Actually, I just read a really interesting article about a MIT/Harvard professor who is an actual climatologist and member of the IPCC who is constantly blasting the "drama" around "man made global warming.

You guys should read it, it has some very interesting points...

http://www.weeklystandard.com/articl...68.html?page=1

a few quotes from the article for those that who won't click a link...

"A pioneering climate scientist with decades at Harvard and MIT, Lindzen sees his discipline as being deeply compromised by political pressure, data fudging, out-and-out guesswork, and wholly unwarranted alarmism. In a shot across the bow of what many insist is indisputable scientific truth, Lindzen characterizes global warming as “small and .  .  . nothing to be alarmed about.” In the climate debate—on which hinge far-reaching questions of public policy—them’s fightin’ words."

"Where Lindzen hasn’t remained is in the mainstream of his discipline. By the 1980s, global warming was becoming a major political issue. Already, Lindzen was having doubts about the more catastrophic predictions being made. The public rollout of the “alarmist” case, he notes, “was immediately accompanied by an issue of Newsweek declaring all scientists agreed. And that was the beginning of a ‘consensus’ argument. Already by ’88 the New York Times had literally a global warming beat.” Lindzen wasn’t buying it. Nonetheless, he remained in the good graces of mainstream climate science, and in the early 1990s, he was invited to join the IPCC, a U.N.-backed multinational consortium of scientists charged with synthesizing and analyzing the current state of the world’s climate science. Lindzen accepted, and he ended up as a contributor to the 1995 report and the lead author of Chapter 7 (“Physical Climate Processes and Feedbacks”) of the 2001 report. Since then, however, he’s grown increasingly distant from prevalent (he would say “hysterical”) climate science, and he is voluminously on record disputing the predictions of catastrophe. "


The Earth’s climate is immensely complex, but the basic principle behind the “greenhouse effect” is easy to understand. The burning of oil, gas, and especially coal pumps carbon dioxide and other gases into the atmosphere, where they allow the sun’s heat to penetrate to the Earth’s surface but impede its escape, thus causing the lower atmosphere and the Earth’s surface to warm. Essentially everybody, Lindzen included, agrees. The question at issue is how sensitive the planet is to increasing concentrations of greenhouse gases (this is called climate sensitivity), and how much the planet will heat up as a result of our pumping into the sky ever more CO2, which remains in the atmosphere for upwards of 1,000 years. (Carbon dioxide, it may be needless to point out, is not a poison. On the contrary, it is necessary for plant life.)

Lindzen doesn’t deny that the climate has changed or that the planet has warmed. “We all agree that temperature has increased since 1800,” he tells me. There’s a caveat, though: It’s increased by “a very small amount. We’re talking about tenths of a degree [Celsius]. We all agree that CO2 is a greenhouse gas. All other things kept equal, [there has been] some warming. As a result, there’s hardly anyone serious who says that man has no role. And in many ways, those have never been the questions. The questions have always been, as they ought to be in science, how much?”

If Lindzen is right about this and global warming is nothing to worry about, why do so many climate scientists, many with résumés just as impressive as his, preach imminent doom? He says it mostly comes down to the money—to the incentive structure of academic research funded by government grants. Almost all funding for climate research comes from the government, which, he says, makes scientists essentially vassals of the state. And generating fear, Lindzen contends, is now the best way to ensure that policymakers keep the spigot open.


The entire article is worth a read... Especially from the scientifically trained people on this board who have spouted the "consensus" argument about man made global warming by scientists.
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Old 01-08-2014, 11:42 AM #75
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A shill who published shoddy work and takes money from climate change deniers says we shouldn't be worried, big surprise.

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Old 01-08-2014, 11:48 AM #76
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The preaching of immanent doom is cultural. Shifts in climate will occur gradually and cause ecological pressures to tip over certain human populations, but the fantasy of imminent extinction events or some other equally fantastical scenerario are embedded culturally where one chooses between the binary and the opposite of that choice is apocalypse.

Then, there is the very real need to get people emotionally invested before you can enact change on s societal level. If one were interested in maintaining business as usual, then one would be very inclined and emotionally invested in highlighting any stumble or revision in climate science. Revision has happened by the way, global warming was dropped for the more accurate: climate change. Despite changes in the nature of the outcome, what has remained consistent is the measurable effects of large scale human activity on the climate. regionally and globally.

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Old 01-08-2014, 12:23 PM #77
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Originally Posted by FreeEnterprise View Post
global warming... haha!

Actually, I just read a really interesting article about a MIT/Harvard professor who is an actual climatologist
Actually, he's an atmospheric physicist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Lindzen
There is agreement that there is a greenhouse effect, and that doubling CO{-2}, in the absence of any feedbacks, will lead to warming on the order of 1 C.

...

There is agreement that CO{-2} in the atmosphere is increasing, and that current levels are about 35 percent greater than pre-industrial levels; there is agreement that much of this increase is probably the result of industrial emissions.

There is agreement that, when combined with other increasing greenhouse gases (methane, nitrous oxide, etc.), the total man-made greenhouse forcing is about 80 percent of what one expects from a doubling of CO{-2}. That is to say, we are effectively pretty close to a doubling of CO{-2} in terms of greenhouse impact.
Glad to hear you're on board, FE.

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The preaching of immanent doom is cultural. Shifts in climate will occur gradually and cause ecological pressures to tip over certain human populations, but the fantasy of imminent extinction events or some other equally fantastical scenerario are embedded culturally where one chooses between the binary and the opposite of that choice is apocalypse.
The thing that gets me is it's entirely due to shortsightedness. I don't think anyone convinced of climate change on a rational basis believes it's going to lead to an extinction event; they're concerned about the massive long-term economic and social costs of such changes. The old protestant ethos "a little pain now is better than a lot of pain later".

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Then, there is the very real need to get people emotionally invested before you can enact change on s societal level. If one were interested in maintaining business as usual, then one would be very inclined and emotionally invested in highlighting any stumble or revision in climate science. Revision has happened by the way, global warming was dropped for the more accurate: climate change. Despite changes in the nature of the outcome, what has remained consistent is the measurable effects of large scale human activity on the climate. regionally and globally.
Eh, global warming is still accurate. Climate change is just a better description of the impact on any specific person.
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Old 01-08-2014, 12:56 PM #78
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People have a high tendency to think in the short term and relate that with the highest sense of urgency. As a consequence of that, people tend to be motivated less by rational argument. I think that becomes more prominent, the longer a society or an individual has been doing things a certain way. Especially in terms of dealing with a crisis. If one arrives, the first instinct is to throw the usual solution at it. If it fails, boom, the world is over.


shhhhhhhhhuuuuuuuuuussssshhhhhh man. I'm trying to steer these bastards away from herpaherd this years colder than ever. since your guys repeated appeals to the models isn't working on them.
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Old 01-08-2014, 01:25 PM #79
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I think it is nice that the ice sheets are giant this year.
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Old 01-08-2014, 01:48 PM #80
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shhhhhhhhhuuuuuuuuuussssshhhhhh man. I'm trying to steer these bastards away from herpaherd this years colder than ever. since your guys repeated appeals to the models isn't working on them.
Sorry, I always forget the majority couldn't correctly interpret something as simple as an average to save their lives.

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I think it is nice that the ice sheets are giant this year.


Antarctica has not yet seen significant warming:
Quote:
Most of Antarctica has yet to see dramatic warming. However, the Antarctic Peninsula, which juts out into warmer waters north of Antarctica, has warmed 2.5 degrees Celsius (4.5 degrees Fahrenheit) since 1950. A large area of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet is also losing mass, probably because of warmer water deep in the ocean near the Antarctic coast. In East Antarctica, no clear trend has emerged, although some stations appear to be cooling slightly. Overall, scientists believe that Antarctica is starting to lose ice, but so far the process has not become as quick or as widespread as in Greenland.
http://nsidc.org/cryosphere/quickfacts/icesheets.html

From IPCC Working Group II (2007)
Quote:
Changes in ice sheets and polar glaciers: Increased melting is expected on Arctic glaciers and the Greenland ice sheet, and they will retreat and thin close to their margins. Most of the Antarctic ice sheet is likely to thicken as a result of increased precipitation. There is a small risk, however, that the West Antarctic and Greenland ice sheets will retreat in coming centuries.
Here's a video of the extent of the ice sheet's relative consistency:


The arctic ice sheet is still down significantly:


http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/20...d-bumpy-climb/
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Old 01-12-2014, 08:29 PM #81
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http://www.popsci.com/article/scienc...EmHpep70yiI.01

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Old 01-13-2014, 06:44 AM #82
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Clearly a libtard agenda exists in the scientific community.
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Old 01-13-2014, 07:57 AM #83
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So is it the stuff we're doing now, or the stuff from the industrial revolution that is causing this?

I understand how "global warming" makes winters colder. I also think it was incredibly stupid to call it global warming, and the asshats that claim a new global catastrophe every generation or so need to be slapped (iceage people form the 60's are a perfect example). If it was just explained that the planet (seas and atmosphere) are retaining energy more because of the **** floating in the air, all this stupid crap might have been avoided. That and we kill off the green wing of the communist philosophy, literally, with fire.
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Old 01-13-2014, 10:49 AM #84
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I read somewhere that we're in for weather of the extremes rather than a global this, or that. Dunno, haven't checked, if I need to move I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

Industry is a part, it's an easy target because it excuses human tendencies to thoughtlessly expand. It isn't like we haven't introduced changes in climate in the past, before industry. Though ignoring that makes it easier to sell "green" products without actually making any changes in lifestyle. Having your cake and all that.
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