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Old 01-13-2021, 02:47 PM #3046
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Id say shoot or feel both, ergonomics are very different on both guns.
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Old 01-13-2021, 05:14 PM #3047
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Noa has had both markers ... My guess is the question was to spur conversation or for a newer player who is asking him questions.

The Luxe X was comfortable in my hands, it was reliable, but I had some paint handling issues with all three I owned. The Luxe X felt smoother than a CS2, but I think that was due to the bolt speed differences between the two. I owned a Gen 1, 2 and the latest gen with all the updates. All three shot well with Graffiti but with tourney paint, they all had issues ...

The Geo 4 has been a joy to own and use. It is smooth, quiet, efficient and just does everything you want a marker to do and does it well. I like the overall design of the CS2 more, but the Geo 4 is a tremendous deal and easy to maintain. I have not had any paint handling issues with it, and I have shot all kinds of paint through it; from field grade to 5 star/redemption pro in Colorado cold weather. In cold weather I recommend turning up the SFR a touch to make sure you don't see any FSDO, but I never had issues with my SFR at the 3 oclock position.

My choice would be Geo 4 all day and twice on Sunday.
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Old 01-14-2021, 10:57 AM #3048
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For anyone curious,

U-Cups work oustanding in the Insight and Onslaught/Reflex. Better than I thought they would. My Onslaught with U-Cups in the applicable locations (shutoff and ram 010) + higher rate rear spring has passed *every* torture test I've given it so far, which that gun has never been very good at. I'll be using it at a February scenario to give it final validation so hopefully it's good and cold.
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Old 01-14-2021, 04:04 PM #3049
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Quote:
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Just thinking out loud for a second-

Kind of hope Empire brings back the Vanquish Marker using the V16 Drive, but with SYX like upgrades: asa and hpr integrated into frame and the grips. Iíd finally be down to test an Empire tournament marker if they did. I donít want to see that bolt design go extinct.
Iíd love that. Iím a big fan of the V16.... my spare marker is a Vanquish GT.
What Iíve found with it is just... incredible wastes of space. The grip just holds a battery, and nothing else. The trigger housing ďcartridgeĒ is massive for no reason. The board in the body is pretty big. Itís just a poorly-fit design, compared to most others on the market.


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Luxe X vs Geo 4. Whatís your pick and why? TIA fellas!
My pick is honestly to save a few hundred bucks and get a Geo 3.5. It still holds up just fine, and is better for folks without large hands.
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Old 01-15-2021, 08:46 AM #3050
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imped4now View Post
For anyone curious,

U-Cups work oustanding in the Insight and Onslaught/Reflex. Better than I thought they would. My Onslaught with U-Cups in the applicable locations (shutoff and ram 010) + higher rate rear spring has passed *every* torture test I've given it so far, which that gun has never been very good at. I'll be using it at a February scenario to give it final validation so hopefully it's good and cold.
This is something I always wanted to try but never got around to doing. How long have you gone without cleaning and lubing the engine?
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Old 01-15-2021, 09:23 AM #3051
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It will longer term testing before I can answer that question.
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Old 01-15-2021, 09:27 PM #3052
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Impede, Trademygun still has a decent variety of new/old stock of the Insight ( non ng ). Is Field One still making the Reflex engine? If so, and your oring sorcery works, this will be a hard to pass up project. It would be an ideal setup for big games when you want to shoot a lot of paint without making the hike back to the fill station.
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Old 01-16-2021, 11:52 AM #3053
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noa Bo View Post
Impede, Trademygun still has a decent variety of new/old stock of the Insight ( non ng ). Is Field One still making the Reflex engine? If so, and your oring sorcery works, this will be a hard to pass up project. It would be an ideal setup for big games when you want to shoot a lot of paint without making the hike back to the fill station.
All Insights were the NG ... The Insight NG and Insight are one in the same. The NG stood for New Generation referring to the engine in the Insight as it was Bobís next engine.

I do agree with you Noa, Iím going to do this to each of my reflex engines as it looks awfully promising. And yes, you can still get new reflex engines from Field One. I knew TMG had Victus markers, but I didnít know they had insights ... If they have a dust black one I might be interested in picking one up eventually.
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Old 01-16-2021, 02:57 PM #3054
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LOL....

The mythical non-NG Insight.
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Old 01-16-2021, 05:55 PM #3055
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Checked and they are Victus, not Insight, my bad. Also didn’t catch the NG detail haha.
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Old 01-16-2021, 06:46 PM #3056
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Victus = Insight with different milling
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Old 01-16-2021, 08:42 PM #3057
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Yep, Victi are Insights with GI milling that Bob did for them. They do come with three barrel backs and a nice tip that I actually prefer over the standard Bob front.

Speaking of the reflex engine ... if it was just a bit better with paint handling and able to shoot the same super brittle paint as a nucleus engine, it could be a world killer. It shoots really well, very quiet, very efficient, and very easy to maintain. With the Ucups it should be MUCH better on lube and be able to go a lot longer in between maintenance.
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Old 01-16-2021, 09:04 PM #3058
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Numerous ? Time

What if Field One rebooted the Insight? Reworked the engine a bit to slow the bolt speed just a tad, use ucup orings where needed, employed the new frame, front grip, and feedneck, and this time make tooless eye covers. Wouldnít it be- Possible? As reliable as the Force? Able to shoot the most brittle paint without a problem? And maintain that incredible efficiency?

Can we finally see Imped be brought on in a official capacity to start making things happen in the paintball world?!
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Old 01-16-2021, 11:48 PM #3059
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What if Field One rebooted the Insight? Reworked the engine a bit to slow the bolt speed just a tad, use ucup orings where needed, employed the new frame, front grip, and feedneck, and this time make tooless eye covers. Wouldnít it be- Possible? As reliable as the Force? Able to shoot the most brittle paint without a problem? And maintain that incredible efficiency?
You're describing the Nucleus and the Force. F1 won't go back to that style of system since it doesn't fit the priorities tournament players have.

With the style of system BL/F1 uses, efficiency and reliability are a bit "at odds." As you know by now, Force efficiency can be improved (but not to Insight/Onslaught levels) and Insights/Onslaughts can be tuned to be more reliable (but not to Force levels). Dig into the nuances on how the two function and how they differ and it'll make sense. Even with U-Cups, I won't pretend that the Insight/Onslaught will have Force-levels of reliability. You've still got a ram that's not pressurized throughout its entire forward stroke so it'll be more susceptible to friction, temps, etc.
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Can we finally see Imped be brought on in a official capacity to start making things happen in the paintball world?!
I'll continue to provide input to anyone that wants it, but automotive is likely where I'll remain.
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Old 01-17-2021, 10:03 PM #3060
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Seattle Thunder 5 Man event

Seattle Thunder just wrapped up another well run event for the weekend. Congrats to the teams that podiumíd. I was on Goldyís team, but then last second I jumped onto another throw together team. The newly formed throw together comprised of a few old friends and I couldnít pass up the opportunity to play with them again. We were third going into the semi finals, top 6, and it was a win or go home situation from there.

Unfortunately we lost our first game in the semis. Ah well. ĎTwas a blast playing with old friends again. It was good playing with Dave Handy again, it had been since 2014, my first speedball event. Also shoutout to Hippy, we seem to land on the same roster like almost once a year. Ashely Q., finally got to play with her! Sheís an awesome d side player, a straight up killer. And of course playing with Mike Rhodes and Matty Preston one more time, those two are like my brothers.

Vibe wise, Thunder brings out the best attitudes in our community. Love the way Corey runs his events, and the refs are top notch. April is Thunderís 7 man mechanical tournament in Oregon, which I think is almost central? Lots of us from Washington State and some from California are already making plans to attend. Iím hoping I make it, and if you read this thread regularly, I hope you get a team in to play as well. Always down to meet fellow pbnation members, especially ones who read or contribute to this thread.

Hype Headbands booth was in attendance. My boy Ian is killing it. Picked up some merch to try out. Be on the look for his stuff, it looks good, looks quality made, and functional.

Prime XTS
First half of the day it was great. I did experience a nasty break in the breech though. To itís credit, the way the eyes, breech, and the way that whole area is designed, really helps in those scenarios vs anything else. Lanes were steady and tight, and snap shooting felt easy. Alas though... I stowed it. I felt like I had slightly better options to prevent breaks during a point, so I went that route instead.

Geo 4
This replaced my Prime halfway through the day. Lanes not as steady, but good enough. Snap shooting, not bad either. Rest of the day I rolled with the Geo and no more paint was broken. A reliable as the day is long option, comfortable AF in the hands, efficient, quiet, smooth shooting, but most of all a top tier choice when it comes to paint handling.

Misc Observations

Virtue
My Spire 3 agitator button finally fell out. This hopper is like three years old or more and has been great. I kept using it after that too. Earlier I used my Spire 280 on my Prime, which was great btw, but when switching to the Geo, it got the Spire 3.

Powerhouse
My new Haymkr reg from Powerhouse is precision personified! Every gun Iíve put it on, chrono numbers get tighter. Versus the hero regís numbers, I can definitely see a difference.

Field One
When we got knocked out of the tournament I spent a little time testing. Hippy let me shoot his Force, and with my HAYMKR reg, I saw numbers over the chrono that were hard to believe. I saw the same number in consecutive firing sequences. Thatís really consistent, like eye opening consistent. Shooting targets I was able to hit anything I wanted with the first or second shot. Basically Iíd just point the thing and nail a small branch or skinny pole, in the chrono area, or anything else I wanted. Okay Iím digging that...

Shocker Paintball
Corey is taking my AMP with him. Heís gonna do his own testing. Looking forward to see what happens. I basically saw two different AMPs shooting amazing today and I want that too. I also saw Ishís blue AMP with blue grip kit and itís gorgeous. Iíd gladly sell my battleship grey AMP for that color.

Realization
Living in the cold and wet environment that is Washington State, Iím going to start collecting the guns ( again ) in our sport that really specialize in paint handling. Iím making room for a Force for sure now, and Iím toying with the idea of a Syx 1.5. It has to be current though... so no Vanquish GT.

Coming Up..
Seattle Uprising next weekend. In person. Iíll let you guys know what happens.
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Old 01-18-2021, 01:49 AM #3061
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Noa.... I forgot to give you the O-rings! Dammit.


I played Saturday (as the one D4 guy on a D5 roster), and we took 2nd, which made that day essentially free... which was pretty cool. Super excited about some of the guys I got to play with- it was the very first tournament for two of them, and they balled out.

Then played Sunday (D4) on a throw-together where we met each other the day of, with three D4 and 3 D5 players.... and it showed against the competition. When talking to a guy randomly from another team, learning that “yeah, pretty much everyone on our roster has played D3/D2 at some point.... I’m “Washington” D4/D3, so we shouldn’t be able to play D4 normally”.....I’m just happy my throw together had fun while getting our **** pushed in.

The team that I played with on Saturday actually got 4th on Sunday with their own version of three D4 and three D5 players. Super proud of them.

I’ll disagree with you Noa about the reffing.

Notorious had two players play on against wrath (one not terrible and could easily be chalked up to the game being intense, one pretty ****ing egregious). One would have been a major (if not both), if properly reffed.

Another team went to bunker our last guy one point.... back to him, completely exposed.... and the dude from the other team engaged ramp on him, and put about 8 shots into his back. Solid line of paint, from the pack up to back of the neck. It wasn’t as if he was just coming around the bunker either, as he was about 15 feet away, just lighting him up. Also wasn’t shooting a lane. It was a run up, a pause, and then railed on the trigger. That’s overshooting, and it was intentional (I asked), and it was uncalled for. I like Cameron... I’m friends with him.... and that was a ****ed up thing to do, and I told him that. He apologized to our guy for doing it after at the end, so that’s cool.... but it should have been a penalty.

But yet, no penalties for any of that stuff. It felt wrong on a lot of levels.

One penalty they DID give to a team (not mine) on Saturday (D5) was for a marker (170R) that apparently spiked to 12bps according to one chrono. The gun was set to 10.2, with stock everything as it should be. A second chrono read 10.2, but they decided to go with the first chrono, and gave a major, and awarded the other team the hang. I understand that if a player was trying to cheat.... yeah, give the other team the win. But it was on a D5 player trusting eclipse (marker) and Virtue (clock), and was even vindicated by the second chrono.... but nope. Ref’s decision for a swing point. I heard about this one from one of the other visiting teams afterwards, from two of their players.

Another weird fiasco happened on Saturday that I didn’t understand at all (not my teams, just watching), but it ended up in players coming back from the dead, a flag hang, the game being called “over”, then not, then the game time expiring.... and the team that didn’t have the flag pull or hang being awarded the win. The ref crew inserted themselves into that game in a way that directly changed the outcome.

And I understand- Thunder guys were having fun, and aren’t refs. I shot a lot of them on accident because they were standing and walking back and forth in between bunkers. Sorry guys.

The rest of the event went extremely smooth both days, and Thunder put on a great event otherwise.

My prime xts had random fsdo over the weekend- never had it before, so I’ll figure it out later. Zero breaks of any kind though, and shot fine all weekend long. The paint was definitely fragile in the cold... it was breaking in pods and loaders, but never in my marker. With the 013-50D mod, softer bolt o-ring bumper, and a bit of extra volume, something about it is working for me.
I like it.
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Last edited by the other one : 01-18-2021 at 02:16 AM.
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Old 01-18-2021, 04:11 AM #3062
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Dang Goldy... I guess we had two different experiences. Our team seemed to be penalty free and we didn’t see too many shenanigans from the teams we played. We played a pretty clean game, our goal was to keep things fun. I did see Notorious push the limit one point... I don’t know, seems like the more competitive your team was, the harder the other team tried to “punish” you, sending a strong message... LOL.

Darr’s Team made some good adjustments and came back strong. Like what I saw out of them. Guns4hire looked good too but Notorious looked to get away with a game changing move. Man, if the refs don’t catch it, that just makes your game harder to beat. Not saying it’s right, just pointing out that “old experience” like that really does become a factor. In the end though, BTA does it again. Ryan and Brandon proved to be too wicked of a duo to stop.

We had some of the NW’s best there today. Good to see old Notorious back and competing. They’re essentially Seattle Thunder before they became Thunder. Cartel Camp was missing from the lineup today, but their D5 team won it yesterday. It was good to get out and socialize within this pandemic and shutdown, very therapeutic. ( F U Covid ).
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Old 01-18-2021, 06:00 AM #3063
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Are you using the 50 durometer 013 Orings on the Bolt Guide for Gamma Core markers?

If so that’s very similar to what I’ve been using except I use 60 durometer Viton for even better compression resistance.
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Old 01-18-2021, 09:07 AM #3064
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70 durometer afaik. I don’t know what the urethanes are. The xrings I don’t know either haha. Still new to this oring thing.

My M170R and Etek Gamma Cores feel pretty firm with everything I’ve done. My Etek uses the SSC bolt too, and initially it was loose.
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Old 01-18-2021, 09:29 AM #3065
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Quote:
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Are you using the 50 durometer 013 Orings on the Bolt Guide for Gamma Core markers?

If so thatís very similar to what Iíve been using except I use 60 durometer Viton for even better compression resistance.
Why would you use a softer seal in that location?
Quote:
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70 durometer afaik. I donít know what the urethanes are. The xrings I donít know either haha. Still new to this oring thing.

My M170R and Etek Gamma Cores feel pretty firm with everything Iíve done. My Etek uses the SSC bolt too, and initially it was loose.
Your X-Rings are 70 duro.

I know I should be the last one saying this, given how much seal testing I do, but don't get overly caught up in seal type, durometer, etc. Especially on a reliable system like the Gamma. Running a different than OE seal is a case by case basis - application, what loads it sees, etc. For Gammas, I'm a fan of running X-Rings on the guide (which, as I've mentioned, was a bit of a surprise given the application didn't exactly fit the bill for that type of seal) and keeping everything else good old buna-nitrile duro 70.
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Old 01-18-2021, 11:57 AM #3066
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The NG on the insight almost assuredly is an add-on so it can be called the BLING, which is obviously the Bob Long Insight New Generation. FWIW.
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