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Old 12-07-2020, 05:12 PM #43
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They tried with that, but failed. The teams ignored the spirit of the idea and did everything they could to make their jerseys the same as they always were.

The only way to do it would be to have the jerseys designed by the league, not the teams. That's how most major leagues do it. That or have incredibly stringent requirements with set logo placements and sizes and a set design template for every team.

But honestly the ship has sailed. If they were going to do all this stuff it had to be done a decade ago while there was still a chance for it to work, along with major game design changes and so on. The time for drastic change has been and gone and they completely missed the boat.

I'm a marketing guy: from a marketing perspective, pro paintball is flatlining. The odds of a successful resurrection are extremely low, even if we had a perfect strategy. High ROF based paintball was always going to fail long term in the face of half decent competition.
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Old 12-07-2020, 06:51 PM #44
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That's kind of what happens when the lunatics run the asylum. We're still in the position of having the league owned and run by the people who own some of the teams, and people within the industry. They're going to be more interested in what keeps them in cash, rather than what's best for progression and positive marketing. Even though long-term, we all know where this is headed, the short term gains are sweet enough apparently.
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Old 12-13-2020, 02:57 PM #45
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I'm not a pro player, but i've watched pro games and from a paintballer / fan perspective, speed ball is boring to watch and its format isn't long enough to give something to fans to follow. The uniform fields aren't interesting and neither are the rapid-short matches.

Luckily, the success of pro paintball speedball != the success of paintball. The walk-on games around me are pretty much packed to capacity every weekend at the park me and the wife goto every weekend and dont show any signs of slowing down that i've seen.
It's not blowing up in popularity, but it's not dying either.
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Old 12-16-2020, 03:21 PM #46
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That's kind of what happens when the lunatics run the asylum. We're still in the position of having the league owned and run by the people who own some of the teams, and people within the industry. They're going to be more interested in what keeps them in cash, rather than what's best for progression and positive marketing. Even though long-term, we all know where this is headed, the short term gains are sweet enough apparently.
We dont play this sport because were all on the straight and narrow, some ppl like a lil rum in theyre punch, some like a lil nose candy, Personally im partial to high end asian prostitutes with daddy complexes 🙂 Now imagine if those ppl ran nascar, it wouldnt run as smoothly. The winner would get a pack of air fresheners and the tents would be up weeks after the race. You need serious, professional ppl at top who want to grow the sport out of the hole its in, and you need new money and advertisers to bring in new blood/talent. If i had to chose between building a new stapler or a new paintball gun, id build the stapler, if i had to dedicate to a single hobby, it wouldnt be paintball right now, and thats somebody who has lived and loves this sport. Theres no incentive unless you have an allergy to money.
When i began a case ran me $20-$30, now its $40-$60 and rising, Competition at fields are drying up, and the only good place to play around here just closed for good (best of luck with future endeavors dave! Wish you all the best buddy) so you are right, we can see where this is headed and its not back to the golden years.
To those up top, line your pockets while you can, your children will work for me 🙂
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Old 12-18-2020, 11:28 AM #47
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I'm not a pro player, but i've watched pro games and from a paintballer / fan perspective, speed ball is boring to watch and its format isn't long enough to give something to fans to follow. The uniform fields aren't interesting and neither are the rapid-short matches.

Luckily, the success of pro paintball speedball != the success of paintball. The walk-on games around me are pretty much packed to capacity every weekend at the park me and the wife goto every weekend and dont show any signs of slowing down that i've seen.
It's not blowing up in popularity, but it's not dying either.
So, so, so ****ing true.

I have no earthly idea why the people at the top pushed for the fast paced, speed games we have today. Paintball is boring to non-players, why not make it interesting for the ones who care. When I watch matches I want to see the high paced chess of the late 90s/early 2000s. I want to watch a game develop, be able to talk with my friends what happened and where it went wrong and break it down like people do with sports like football/baseball/bball. The games now are so pushed towards being as fast as possible that any given point, it just comes down to who makes their shot off the break, and chances are whatever team does, wins.

Its no longer high speed chess with guns, it is played in a style where essentially 1-2 spots on any given layout are make or break spots, if you make it and the other team doesnt, the game is over, and their is no strategy around winning against that other than the player being stupid and getting shot out of that spot.

In NPPL, early hyperball, 10 man, etc. The strategy was fluid every single point and at any time it could change on the field mid-game in order to plug a hole, stop the bleeding, take a side, etc. Now it is so one dimensional in that every team breaks the same and plays the same style, hoping to shoot out that key spot and not lose their key spot.



I mean its like any other sport, I dont watch them because I want the fastest possible iteration for "EXCITEMENT!!!!!" I watch them to see how each player and team approaches the path to victory, and the path they take to get there.
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Old 12-18-2020, 01:26 PM #48
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Something else to bear in mind, and I might have even said it at some point in this thread:

Plenty of sports have adjusted their formats over the years. Most haven't been to benefit the players or teams, they've been to benefit the fans and viewership. Many of the changes have been hated by the players and teams. But they made the sports more watchable or more fun for the fans.
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Old 12-21-2020, 01:07 AM #49
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Take the America's Cup. Most old school sailors hate it. Personally, it blows my mind that you can race sailing yachts at 60mph.

Paintball is in a state where almost anything would be better than the status quo. Even going full blown stock class Battle Royale in the woods for days for pro events would probably get better fan and media traction than what we have.
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Old 12-22-2020, 07:35 AM #50
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What if, halfway through the game they release 10 Blindfolded little people dressed like bananas and, idk, to start off well say two gorrillas, if the little person touches you you have to make the gorrilla a peanutbutter and banana sandwhich Or you get a major, but if the gorrilla rips one of your arms off, your team wins.
I feel like ppl nowadays could get behind paintmidgerillaball
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Old 12-23-2020, 11:00 AM #51
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Take the America's Cup. Most old school sailors hate it. Personally, it blows my mind that you can race sailing yachts at 60mph.

Paintball is in a state where almost anything would be better than the status quo. Even going full blown stock class Battle Royale in the woods for days for pro events would probably get better fan and media traction than what we have.
I agree with you.

The best thing for paintball would be to put a focus on the strategy and a general objective as the main focal point instead of kills being the main focal point. Let's be honest, the ordinary is not exciting to watch, anyone can go shoot someone with a gun. They need to make larger scale 10-15 man events in well built woods fields and concept fields with objectives like domination, search and destroy, etc that actually have an end goal each game, other than just shoot all 5 guys and walk down to hit a buzzer.


You can watch a WR in the NFL run a route to perfection 100 times, but you dont care when watching until he makes a spectacular one handed catch.

Paintball right now is watching the guy run the route, it takes expertise and elite skill but it isn't exciting.
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Old 12-27-2020, 06:11 PM #52
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Old 12-28-2020, 06:06 AM #53
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I got back after a 14 year break, started playing with a DIV2 team recently and just after a few months in realised there are nearly no teams of my country playing only from a neighbouring country because its near the border and its the only airball field in our region.

In fact in my country we have only like max 10 airball field locations.
On the flip side woodsball is doing fine, not the numbers airsofters get but its not horrible.

I play airball because i want to motivate my with a sport that interests me, that keeps me going and keep me training and working out for a goal.

But honestly if airball was just semi uncapped with mechanical markers i would be much happier as secretly i love mech single trigger markers way more then my CS2 Pro spacegun laying ropes, it already got better with the cups we play that have 4 pods limits per person and the 10.5 ramp limit.

But still the most fun i have is team practice where we have to put our guns in Semi to practice team communication etc. the pacing is just much nicer that way and shooting people feels more rewarding.
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Old 01-02-2021, 02:39 AM #54
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Yeah, it's funny how the limited paint formats can be more fun. Most fun I had was playing hopper+1 tournaments. It's enough that you can lane off the break and then take it easy with the second load.

The main reason pro paintball went to ramping, short matches and 20 cases a match was the commercial drive to sell paint, not any consideration for the future of the sport. And it shows, because here we are now dominating ESPN and growing like crazy...
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Old 01-02-2021, 03:12 PM #55
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Lets bring back challengers and champions division for 2021!
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Old 01-12-2021, 01:16 PM #56
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Paintball has more competition than it used to. Video games have a good fun-per-dollar value. Paintball has an advantage by being physically real. Every field, event, and tournament is like a different FPS game on a different console. Video games have highlights, rewards, and achievements that can be shared or shown off. Another advantage is you can game for 20 minutes and go about your day. Paintball takes some level of commitment at any level. The key to the growth of the sport is incorporating more structure after giving new players an affordable opportunity to venture into their new found hobby. Mag-fed can give paintball a rebirth in recreation because of its cost per game, after initial investment. Mag-fed rentals? They're an expensive investment for a field owner. Past players learned that paintball is expensive. I'm suprised a company hasn't come along to make an affordable encapsulation machine for field owners yet. Theres a lot of hands in the cookie jar for paintballs(encapsulator, materials, maker, shipper, field).
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Old 01-12-2021, 07:17 PM #57
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Paintball has more competition than it used to. Video games have a good fun-per-dollar value. Paintball has an advantage by being physically real.
The issue is that "physically real" doesn't mean much, if anything, to most folks. Video games are so good and addictive now that they scratch the same itch.

The paintball industry in the past saw its future as being what gaming turned out to be.

And even if the physical does matter, I owned an Oculus Quest. A good game in the quest can be just as fun and almost as physically demanding as paintball, without the cost or the cheating or having to organise your friends. Heck it's lockdown proof. The Quest is also dystopian and evil, but that's another discussion.

Ideally there would have been a serious push from the top to start doing crossovers with VR, gaming and esports that would have started years ago when PB was still popular and had the New Hotness factor. Not just left to a few indy devs and HK as an afterthought.
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Old 01-13-2021, 03:41 AM #58
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You are right! I got a Quest 2 and having so much fun and it can be actively intensive without the high costs you are Mountain climbing, cutting stuff in beatsabers or playing intense shooter games in virtual reality.

I actually hook my VR set up to GRIT for layout practice it is amazing and saves so so much money getting learning blindpots/ bounceshots etc before even hitting the field with the team.

Now with COVID and the extended lockdown in my country and the ever declining financial situation for most average joes like me, i am afraid that paintball in Europe is going from a novelty for rental groups to a much grimmer future in general for paintball and not even mentioning the hobby portion of it.
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Old 01-13-2021, 04:30 PM #59
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In the end, VR will replace paintball almost completely. We're already most of the way there. Paintball just doesn't offer enough for most folks, and has major drawbacks compared to esports or VR.

There will always be people who play PB, but the glorious future of PB as a sport with a big TV following etc. is long gone.

Ollie Lang used to talk about how his big contract paved the way for future professional players to be truly professional. In reality, his contract was as good as it ever got and probably ever will be.
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Old 01-14-2021, 05:16 PM #60
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Give me a break. That's like saying 2k is going to replace people playing actual pickup basketball and rec leagues because it has a popular pickup/park mode.

It's niche hobby that will stay that way until the leadership can figure itself out to generate outside ad revenue. Same as every other niche hobby.
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Old 01-17-2021, 03:52 PM #61
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The analogy with flatscreen gaming doesn't work. Go play some decent VR, and consider that it's only getting better at an exponential rate.

It's more like saying real BBall will replace 2k, not the other way around.
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Old 01-17-2021, 09:10 PM #62
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Ive came back after a 18 ish year break. Last tournament was the IAO 03. I messed up my knee, sold all my gear and never thought about paintball until actually just last week.

I actually went out and stepped foot on a field for the the first time this morning.

Let me first say. No VR is no where near the same, I have the Valve Index, and while its fun, and definitely changes the way you game, nothing on VR comes close as far as that adrenaline rush you get when you step up to the starting gate.

Now, I honestly have noticed, Compared to my era late 90s to mid 2000's. Doesn't seem like much "innovation" has happened. I remember working a shop as a tech, and every week to 3 weeks there would be some kind of new buzz, whether it be a new Board, new bolt, new grips, new feednecks, new hopper, or some prototype marker coming out. The Ole Evil Omen comes to mind.

Now every gun is literally the same. (dont get me wrong I love how light and compact everything is) But what the hell happened? Used to go to fields, and you'd rarely see the same marker. Yeah you'd have the matrix's, timmys, egos, but there were so many variants of each. Shocktech, Ardvark, Ironmen, Naughty dogs

Why are we taking electronic markers, and turning them mec now?

Isnt that backwards? I mean **** I remember receiving one of the prototype Sandrige F5 kits for autocockers. It was amazing seeing a marker that started as a Pump, turned Mech, and then fully come to life as an electronic.

I know before I quit, Smart parts where pulling their bull**** suing companies, for if I remember right Anti chop eyes?

Did they really sue every company outta business, and then fail themselves?

Cause now we have what 5 big names out there?

And then I find out about a 10.5 bps cap? WTH is that about? How is there skill involved now when it comes down to "Hold my finger on the trigger and spray while I reload."

I will admit that to get started with a tournament grade setup now, is drastically cheaper than what it used to be. Which is awesome.

Im glad to be back, and looking foward to grabbing a new setup this week, but Im definitely nervous about the future of balling.

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Old 01-18-2021, 11:43 AM #63
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I don't have all the answers but I have a few for your points.
Going back to mech is an attempt to bring some skill back. Capped ramping just got boring for many. Personally, I run 10.5 capped semi and think about slowing that down too. There has been a surge of mech tournaments, and they seem to be a lot more interesting. There were definite advancements in mech marker tech the new high-end mechs are incredibly smooth and easy to fire. The other "big" advancement was gas through grip. No more macro lines getting in the way air goes into the marker at the ASA with no plastic tube to the regulator on the front.

Agree on the "every marker is the same now" bit. There just isn't much variation. Every marker is a single tube with a grip, trigger, and foregrip. Even the EGO evolved to make the bottom tube almost disappear. The fancy milling has almost disappeared. There are differences in the internal operation, but for the most part since almost every field caps bps, in the end, the only real difference is "shot quality".
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