[majinfraze]

I know Jack is sometimes active on this forum, so I'm curious if anyone has heard anything on this.

I can understand removing a preceding product when its successor is available -- no one wants to cannibalize sales of their own product with an earlier model. But why remove the latest model of a product with no replacement?

Is it to push users to the (admittedly great) Etha2? Because for fans of taller, stacked poppet markers, I doubt pulling the Etek5 from shelves will push a shopper into the LV1.6.

[cyberpyr8]

Makes me wonder if because they didn't remove the AT pipe on the 1.6 and I doubt they want to release another macro line gun or Etek with AT pipe, that they haven't offered up a replacement. I like the Etek line and I hope they come out with something at some point again. But I think the next one needs to ditch the macro line. Heck, I wish the 1.6 didn't have the AT pipe. I think that would have been the next big improvement along with the better solenoid. But if you put an AT pipe on the Etek at the 600-800 range it might hurt 1.6 sales.

[majinfraze]

You're likely correct that adding the hardline/AT pipe may be seen as bringing the Etek too close to the 1.6.

It's just odd the line has no poppet option until the 1.6:


Entry: Emek (spool)
Beginner/Midrange: Etha 2 (spool)
Midrange: Gtek (spool)
High End: CS2 (spool)
High End: LV1.6 (poppet)


As a returning oldschool player, I've found the stacked poppet design to be much more familiar to point and comfortable to hold -- much more like the cockers and Angels I'm used to. It's not that the current midrange options are *bad*, there's just nothing before the LV that... feels like an LV.

[Mr. Charlie]

They might be working on a replacement? Or maybe just expect people to get the LV1.6?

[majinfraze]

Originally Posted by Mr. Charlie

They might be working on a replacement? Or maybe just expect people to get the LV1.6?

You'd think that, but it's been off the market for over a year... so, what's going on?

[cyberpyr8]

Originally Posted by majinfraze

It's just odd the line has no poppet option until the 1.6

There was a point before the 1.6 was released, where there were no new double stacked poppets being produced. I think everyone went spools for a while so I'm glad to at least have an option. I hope they bring the Etek line back at some point. They are a good, less expensive LV alternative.

[ChuckLove]

There is not evidence that I know of to support this idea, but is it related to solenoid availability similar the LV's before the 1.6?

[The Jayster]

I think it has to do with market demand. PE must feel that there might not be enough demand out there to warrant the production of an Etek 6, and if that's the case I'd tend to agree.

I've owned two Eteks (a 3 and a 5) and my primary reason for procuring one was PE quality and reliability. I wanted something that I know would work every time out of the box and shoot well, but without having to pay in the 4-digit range. Back then, the Etek was pretty much spot on in that market niche. Nowadays, you have plenty of spool valve offerings that fit the bill, and I think that the Etha 2 now fills that niche. Yes, it could be argued that the Eteks looked 'nicer' with the aluminium upper bodies and all that, but I wonder if there's a market niche for anything in between the Etha 2 and the 170R, and something that would be other than the Gamma Core, like a poppet valve gun. I dunno...

[Ford]

But why remove the latest model of a product with no replacement?

A 5 year run isn't bad...

Maybe the cost to build out the Etek5 has gone up more than can be justified for the mid range price.

[majinfraze]

Originally Posted by The Jayster

I think it has to do with market demand. PE must feel that there might not be enough demand out there to warrant the production of an Etek 6, and if that's the case I'd tend to agree.

I've owned two Eteks (a 3 and a 5) and my primary reason for procuring one was PE quality and reliability. I wanted something that I know would work every time out of the box and shoot well, but without having to pay in the 4-digit range. Back then, the Etek was pretty much spot on in that market niche. Nowadays, you have plenty of spool valve offerings that fit the bill, and I think that the Etha 2 now fills that niche. Yes, it could be argued that the Eteks looked 'nicer' with the aluminium upper bodies and all that, but I wonder if there's a market niche for anything in between the Etha 2 and the 170R, and something that would be other than the Gamma Core, like a poppet valve gun. I dunno...

You bring up several strong points in your reply.

First: that the whole reason for selecting an Etek is for PE's reliability and performance.

I wholeheartedly agree. Having returned to the sport in the last few years as a seasoned tournament player from the late 90s and early noughts, I'm blown the **** away at the performance of modern markers. Like, this **** is insane. My new Etha2 outperforms my every-part-modded STO, RT, and Angel from back in the day. Those markers cost me 2k each, this thing was like four hundred bucks. This is honestly the whole reason I'm in my current conundrum.

See, I want the modern performance and reliability of a current-gen marker, but I want something to point and feel, well, like a 'cocker and Angel. The Etek does that. Unfortunately, I can't find one anywhere.

Second: The Etha2 fills the niche of "works every time out of the box and shoots well". Well, that's true. It's extremely reliable, and the shot quality is sweet. But it doesn't point like a stacked-tube, and the trigger is vague, especially when compared to a magnetic trigger. My Etha2 is the least-expensive marker in my stable, and yet somehow my go-to. Even the stock barrel is good.

Third: I wonder if there is a market niche for something between the Etha2 and the 170r.


Here's where I disagree with you. Because the main difference between the Etek and the Etha2 isn't the metal body, it's the trigger, shape, and valve design.

So the question isn't "is there a market segment between the Etha2 and 170r", it's "does anyone under the LV price point care about poppet markers?" -- which is a fair question. I sure do, but only because I grew up shooting Cockers, Angels, and Timmys. Maybe I'm a small segment?

[The Jayster]

Originally Posted by majinfraze

You bring up several strong points in your reply.

First: that the whole reason for selecting an Etek is for PE's reliability and performance.

I wholeheartedly agree. Having returned to the sport in the last few years as a seasoned tournament player from the late 90s and early noughts, I'm blown the **** away at the performance of modern markers. Like, this **** is insane. My new Etha2 outperforms my every-part-modded STO, RT, and Angel from back in the day. Those markers cost me 2k each, this thing was like four hundred bucks. This is honestly the whole reason I'm in my current conundrum.

See, I want the modern performance and reliability of a current-gen marker, but I want something to point and feel, well, like a 'cocker and Angel. The Etek does that. Unfortunately, I can't find one anywhere.

Second: The Etha2 fills the niche of "works every time out of the box and shoots well". Well, that's true. It's extremely reliable, and the shot quality is sweet. But it doesn't point like a stacked-tube, and the trigger is vague, especially when compared to a magnetic trigger. My Etha2 is the least-expensive marker in my stable, and yet somehow my go-to. Even the stock barrel is good.

Third: I wonder if there is a market niche for something between the Etha2 and the 170r.


Here's where I disagree with you. Because the main difference between the Etek and the Etha2 isn't the metal body, it's the trigger, shape, and valve design.

So the question isn't "is there a market segment between the Etha2 and 170r", it's "does anyone under the LV price point care about poppet markers?" -- which is a fair question. I sure do, but only because I grew up shooting Cockers, Angels, and Timmys. Maybe I'm a small segment?

You bring up very good points as well.

Like you, I was there when we wished we would have one day gear like we have now. When I started playing, the pinnacle of markers were the Automag and the Autococker, then we had the Angel vs Shoebox Shocker, etc. Even a few years ago, I would never have considered having at least one high-end as the 'flagship' of my collection. Now we have mid-ends that act and look like what high ends were a decade or more ago. I remember once paying $2,000 (Canadian...) for an Angel LCD, and forking out an extra $1,000 for the Angel A.I.R. Hey, gotta pay extra for that cool digital gauge right? My current Emek with my Ninja tank blows that set-up out of the water. I paid what for both? $400? (Canadian, again... which is about $300 U.S.)

You raise a good point (and it is something I should have considered in my first reply), in that poppet-valve guns like the Etek and the LV1 point very nicely; I loved the ergos on my Etek 3, 5, Ego 11 and LV 1. I also found that I could lob shots more easily at medium or long range because of the way I could hold it. Incidentally, that's where the 'poppets have arched shots' legend come from (we all know that if you'd put a LV1.6 and a Geo 4 in a vice and shoot, they'd shoot exactly the same).

I think that PE figures that if someone wants a nicer Etha 2 (all metal, nice trigger, quick bolt-out-back access, etc.) he or she will get the 170R. Perhaps so, but the 170R costs almost double the Etha 2. One could say that there could be a market for a marker that would priced in the middle, and that would share some of the more basic features of both the Etha a and 170R. OTOH, I think that as soon as you add a lot of metal, the price jumps up dramatically. Such a marker could in the end be much closer in price to the 170R, defeating the whole purpose.

Where an eventual 'Etek 6' is concerned, I think that the major challenge would be to offer a design that's significantly cheaper than the LV.1.6, while having at least the AT Pipe. There is no way that PE would create something with a macro-line in 2021. Maybe something closer in design philosophy and price to the 170R?

In the 2010s, the reason why Eteks were so popular was because you'd basically get a cheaper Ego, but with the same reliability and similar shot characteristics. That's why a got an Etek 3 back in 2009: I wanted a mid-range speedball gun that was well-made, had the basic features needed (decent on/off, feedneck, etc.) and would WORK without having to fork out $1,000+. Back then there weren't many other offerings in that market niche. When the Gtek came along in 2015 (?) and thereafter, I read somewhere that it outsold the Etek 5 by a fair margin.

As you pointed out, the true question is if there's a market for PE poppet gun below the LV 1.6 price point (which is quite damn steep IMVHO). I wish I knew!

[cyberpyr8]

I just got a LV 1.6 but I will say, I really like the screen display on an Etek over the LV1 displays. They are clearer and easier to read for me. The LV screens look like an 80's video game and the Etek screen looks more like a Bob Long display.

[desertedearth]

If PE would come out with an LV2, it would be interesting to see if they would offer the LV1.6 but with less of the ‘goodies’, at a lower price and possibly have it be the new ‘etek’. For example only include one rammer, and down grade the barrel to a traditional two piece barrel. Also what about a composite grip frame (like the etek5)? Offering such a marker under $1000 would grab much attention IMO.