New ImmortaLITE HPA tank - with new Aura Ascent regulator

Reaper63 · 02-28-2020, 01:51 PM

Kinda surprised it hasn't been posted yet, but Brad tested the "30% more efficient" claim a few years ago for PBRML and found it to be pretty questionable, at least compared to a Ninja reg. About a 6% gain.

Video: https://youtu.be/Ng-PEbkiDz4

On a side note, am I right in thinking this Aura Ascent reg does not have an adjustable collar (i.e. gauge position cannot be changed)? I'm kinda interested in these tanks, but if the reg position isn't adjustable, that's pretty much a non-starter for me.

p8ntballsteve · 02-28-2020, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Methodcaptain

Quote:

Originally Posted by p8ntballsteve

So a lot of people have been asking how Immortal Air can get you up to 30% more shots per tank. So I'm here to help explain it. I worked for Dan Colby for many years, both at Air America, and at Guerrilla Air, and while I still cannot figure out the secrets that he was able to accomplish this, I know what is happening.

All Regulators have a decay curve, in other words, the pressure the reg ouputs at 4500PSI, is not the same as it is at 1000 PSI. Most manufactures set the regs to whatever pressure they advertise at 4500PSI, and as the pressure in the bottle drops (regulator input pressure) the pressure in the regulator also changes. There are "balanced" regulators that do a better job of minimizing the drop off effect, but no one has been able to miniaturize a true balanced regulator for paintball yet.

D33P pretty much hit the nail on the head in that you can go deeper into the bottle than others.
So when your reg is supposed to output 550PSI, it may only output 200psi when you drop below 1000psi (actual result from back around 2004 of non DC reg). The AURA reg is able to constantly hold that working pressure far longer, and while I've been out of paintball manufacturing for about a decade now, I would assume that it would hold closer to 500psi until it reaches around that pressure, then drops with bottle pressure.

Now, keep in mind, most markers have multiple regs these days... so why does this matter? simple, same principal applies to this regulator, as the output from the tank drops, the input to the secondary reg drops, and the pressure again drops to the marker, until it drops to an unusable amount.

So, is it possible for a more balanced regulator to get you more usable shots from the same tank... YES.

The more efficient the marker, the more you would notice it, I doubt a Tippmann 98 would notice more than a a few dozen shots, but on something like an axe (yes I know its not the most efficient) you may see 3 or 4 more pods before its shooting too slow to be a usable shot.

So, to the naysayers, I would say this, look online, there are reviews of people testing same bottle, same marker, and getting more shots from an immortal air reg. I would imagine the 30% would heavily depend on what you are shooting, and what reg you are comparing it to (Thinking the really cheap regs are more the 30%) but I have gotten about 15% more on my marker than with the Pure energy reg I had to test against.

I normally don't like to add fuel to any fire, but this is absolutely, 100% absurd, and goes against physics. Maybe I am being too absolute, but this claim does not seem to meet the definition of efficiency.

A marker's efficiency is based mainly on the operating pressure it takes to accelerate a paintball down the barrel at 285-300fps. Weather, paint to barrel match, type of barrel (unported barrels are efficient but super loud) the consistency of paint, the condition of the marker, etc all play into efficiency.

A tank regulator simply supplies the pressure needed to operate the marker. The tank has a fixed volume of air that this regulator feeds into the marker. A regulator cannot increase this volume of usable air, nor can it change the marker's effective operating pressure needed to shoot paint at serviceable velocity.

The only way to get "more" shots out of a tank due to regulator design is to decrease the amount of air supplied to the marker, thus using less air. This would yield more shots technically, but not at usable velocity.

If the regulator operates as you have said, keeping a stable pressure regardless of tank pressure, you are speaking of the regulators ability to consistently provide the same pressure to the marker. That isn't going to effect efficiency in a positive manner. if anything, that means instead of pushing 225psi into a marker when you are down to 1000 psi tank, you are still pushing 550psi, which is in effect MORE air.

Let me put it into some simple numbers.

Say a marker gets 1800 usable shots off of a 68/4500. Each shot would use .037% of the volume of that tank. That volume is the requirement of the marker.

You claim that this marker would now get an additional 540 shots out of that same 68/4500 tank. That would be 2340 shots. That is a 30% increase. That means that the same marker is now somehow capable of reaching the same velocity, but only using .029% of the volume of the tank?. That doesn't add up.

The same 1800 shots at a 15% increase is 2070 shots, which is still a huge increase at the same velocity. That means the marker is requiring .032% of the volume of the tank to reach velocity.

That is impossible for any regulator to accomplish this at the same velocity.

Marker upgrades like bolts, barrels, new engines, etc. struggle to provide measurable increases in efficiency (unless the stock components are absolutely horrible). A tank regulator is NOT going to provide that much of a boost. The tank regulator cannot change the amount of pressure required by a marker to accelerate the paintball at acceptable velocity.

In fact you are being too absolute.

Again, I'll simply for those who are not well versed on regulators.

The pressure input on a regulator has a direct result on the output, as tank pressure drops, output drops
Your regulator does not put out the same pressure throughout the entire span of 4500psi to set pressure.

I think everyone is hung up on the word "efficient". Which technically should just be up to x% more shots per fill.

As another dumber down example, my Pure energy reg outputs only 345psi when the tank drops to 900 psi, even though it's set to 550. This means I'm starving the inline reg, and getting shoot down.

Does this help?

diehli · 03-02-2020, 01:49 AM

Data.

Data.

Data.

Data.

I'm from Missouri on this one.

SOPP · 03-02-2020, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by p8ntballsteve

In fact you are being too absolute.

Again, I'll simply for those who are not well versed on regulators.

The pressure input on a regulator has a direct result on the output, as tank pressure drops, output drops
Your regulator does not put out the same pressure throughout the entire span of 4500psi to set pressure.

I think everyone is hung up on the word "efficient". Which technically should just be up to x% more shots per fill.

As another dumber down example, my Pure energy reg outputs only 345psi when the tank drops to 900 psi, even though it's set to 550. This means I'm starving the inline reg, and getting shoot down.

Does this help?

The Logic is all fine and dandy, but I need some hard evidence to believie this. Give us some actual data and we're getting somewhere. Until then, this is another swoop bolt.

BMJoker · 03-02-2020, 10:11 AM

This should be easy to prove......so prove it. 30% is a bold claim that needs to be substantiated. If it's true. Consider me first in line to purchase.

**John** · 03-02-2020, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diehli

Data.

Data.

Data.

Data.

I'm from Missouri on this one.

Lol, I live in St Louis, so...

I'll volunteer to do a test on video. Send me a tank and I'll compare it against the Powerhouse and/or Ninja regs I have. If it proves true, then I'll even upload the video and put it on the homepage.

Hit me up, you know I'm serious and impartial. If the claim is true, you'll be getting a significant piece of free advertising and you will sell more tanks.

aclark364 · 03-02-2020, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John

Lol, I live in St Louis, so...

I'll volunteer to do a test on video. Send me a tank and I'll compare it against the Powerhouse and/or Ninja regs I have. If it proves true, then I'll even upload the video and put it on the homepage.

Hit me up, you know I'm serious and impartial. If the claim is true, you'll be getting a significant piece of free advertising and you will sell more tanks.

look at this guy begging for free gear

k1rage · 03-02-2020, 01:06 PM

Bold claim indeed....

Kazer · 03-02-2020, 01:19 PM

The claim separated these regs perform well. I have 2 of the original ones and they work as well as anything else.

Big Papa Pink · 03-02-2020, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John

Lol, I live in St Louis, so...

I'll volunteer to do a test on video. Send me a tank and I'll compare it against the Powerhouse and/or Ninja regs I have. If it proves true, then I'll even upload the video and put it on the homepage.

Hit me up, you know I'm serious and impartial. If the claim is true, you'll be getting a significant piece of free advertising and you will sell more tanks.

And ... Crickets.

Legacy · 03-03-2020, 07:49 AM

I just noticed on their facebook page a shooting video with a 77 ci tank on a luxe x. They got just a bit better than 11 pods shooting 280fps. Now I'm not sure if that's good or bad for a luxe x (never shot one) but maybe you guys that have can chime in if that's good or not.

k1rage · 03-03-2020, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Papa Pink

Quote:

Originally Posted by John

Lol, I live in St Louis, so...

I'll volunteer to do a test on video. Send me a tank and I'll compare it against the Powerhouse and/or Ninja regs I have. If it proves true, then I'll even upload the video and put it on the homepage.

Hit me up, you know I'm serious and impartial. If the claim is true, you'll be getting a significant piece of free advertising and you will sell more tanks.

And ... Crickets.

Well yeah, I reckon they don't actually want it third party tested

imped4now · 03-03-2020, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legacy

I just noticed on their facebook page a shooting video with a 77 ci tank on a luxe x. They got just a bit better than 11 pods shooting 280fps. Now I'm not sure if that's good or bad for a luxe x (never shot one) but maybe you guys that have can chime in if that's good or not.

That's standard for an X. They'd get the same results using a Ninja or Powerhouse reg.

Big Papa Pink · 03-03-2020, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legacy

I just noticed on their facebook page a shooting video with a 77 ci tank on a luxe x. They got just a bit better than 11 pods shooting 280fps. Now I'm not sure if that's good or bad for a luxe x (never shot one) but maybe you guys that have can chime in if that's good or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by imped4now

That's standard for an X. They'd get the same results using a Ninja or Powerhouse reg.

Imped is correct, that is in line with what I see from my Luxe Xs when I use a Ninja 77 CI tank with a pro v2 regulator.

Legacy · 03-03-2020, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Papa Pink

Imped is correct, that is in line with what I see from my Luxe Xs when I use a Ninja 77 CI tank with a pro v2 regulator.

So it's good but doesn't break the laws of physics.

Big Papa Pink · 03-03-2020, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legacy

So it's good but doesn't break the laws of physics.

I would say that is correct. If I'm not mistaken others have gotten 9 pods and a hopper + (so slightly over 10 pods) off a 68/45 with a pro v2 as well ... so good, but those numbers for a 77 do not show any gains in efficiency.

aclark364 · 03-03-2020, 10:05 AM

You all are killing the magic

E99_Curt · 03-03-2020, 10:41 AM

Damn scientists always trying to ruin the day with their "experiments" and "data"

k1rage · 03-03-2020, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aclark364

You all are killing the magic

Counterspell

Intern1 · 03-03-2020, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k1rage

Counterspell

In response, I force of will your counterspell

Squattingdog · 03-05-2020, 10:00 AM

I just bought a 68/4500 from them. I care very little if their “30%” claim is true. I bought it solely off the fact I needed another tank and I was very found of their products when they were Air America and I imagine that their quality has only gotten better with time.