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Old 01-11-2015, 03:41 AM #1
Noa Bo
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Most reliable and doesn't break paint tournament gun

Hi, I need help with a decision buying my next paintball gun. I'm willing to spend $1500 or more. These are a few of the main things I'm looking for:

1.) I much prefer the gun to be enclosed, so it's most likely going to be a spooly.
2.) I want a super reliable workhorse of a gun that will last me a long time. Minimal maintenance/upkeep needed is a big bonus.
3.) I covet a gun that will hardly ever break paint, even brittle paint. I usually never buy brittle paint, just to reduce the chances of a break. I hate breaks.

To give you an idea of what I have shot and what guns I own currently and in the past:

Past guns:
Shocker sft. My first tournament gun. Brilliant, I loved it. For me it was reliable and only needed lube. Hardly ever broke a ball. Didn't care it wasn't efficient. Loved the way it shot. I miss it a lot.

Machine Vapor. Shot great, but it broke balls all the time and went down often. I don't miss it.

Dam 14. Great gun! Everything about it was awesome actually. I did have trouble with it once and it happened at a tournament, but we were getting rained on pretty hard (weather). I sold it but vowed to get another one down the road.

Guns I currently own:
DYE DAM. I've had nothing but problems with it since day one. Goes down and breaks paint. I want to be rid of it badly. My friend says to hold off and try mid grade paint to see if cuts down on breaks, but I'm not holding my breath.

Tactical G6R. It's a good gun, really nice, but for some reason I am just not gelling with it. The only thing that I really like is its efficiency.

Other guns I've shot, but never owned:
Geo 3.5. Nice gun. Heard it's got a great track record for being reliable. Felt very comfortable in my hands, that's a plus. Shot is fine, but not great. My friend just got it and hasn't dialed it in yet I don't think.

LV1. Nice gun, but I prefer to have an enclosed gun to keep dirt out. That being said, I'm not completely ruling it out.

Guns I have not shot yet but want to:
Vanquish 2.0. Sounds like I would like it due to it being a shocker basically, but I am more interested in the reliability and if it's easy on paint.

DLX Luxe 2.0, or the latest version. I hear they break down a lot and are very touchy, finicky, but it is what the Shocker would've evolved into eventually, so that sounds cool, but not the other part.

I know there are some other guns out there that are probably very good, I just don't know enough about them yet. They are:
Macdev guns
Bob Long Vis ( actually very curious about this particular gun)

And that's it. If you've read through all this thank you! And if you have useful information to share, thank you again! I hope that any information of the guns I've talked about can help the community here.

-Noa
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Old 01-11-2015, 03:46 AM #2
BP0019
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A Geo will serve you well. Very reliable and gentle on paint.
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Old 01-11-2015, 08:20 AM #3
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A Geo sounds good for you. They don't shoot as well as Luxes or Vanquishes, but they are less finicky. PE guns are also generally very good on paint.
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Old 01-11-2015, 09:11 AM #4
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The LV1 is basically king in every category you listed except for being enclosed (which FYI has no impact on the function or reliability of a gun). That being said, for your needs I recommend running a VIS with the poppet engine. This will give you better cold weather performance that any of the spools will, will give you great efficiency and still give a nice shot. In the summer if you want you can run the spool engine for a quieter and softer shot.

As much as I love all of the Shocker based guns, they are simply a little more tempermental with how they are lubed and how they operate in the cold. They also take a little longer to diagnose a leak from given the larger number of seals required in that bolt design.

Last edited by Mr. Stealthy : 01-11-2015 at 09:19 AM.
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Old 01-11-2015, 09:12 AM #5
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The Geo 3.5 is a solid and reliable marker with a decent shot. While it isn't the best out there, it does perform very well.

My recommendation would be a Bob Long VIS Victory. I have been using various generations of Victories since 2011 or so. I have used them for about 150 days of play and they have been some of the most reliable markers I have ever owned.
If you would like to read more about the Victory VIS and the Spool and Poppet engines it would come with I would read my posts here:
https://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=4221001

Let me know if I can answer any questions.
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Old 01-11-2015, 10:37 AM #6
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I always loved stacked poppets but hate the exposed bolt for many reasons. Just wish some brave company would make the rotor-breech to seal up the bolt.

On a dive, dirt and sand got onto the top of my Etek3 top opening and onto the bolt. I knew it will work its way quickly into the breech if I continued to play with it. I quickly switch back to my trusty in-line poppet Axe and played the rest of the day with it.

Can't afford it, but Someday, I will get a GEO, maybe by then it will be the GEO 5.0 for all I know.
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Old 01-11-2015, 10:42 AM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentBall55 View Post
I always loved stacked poppets but hate the exposed bolt for many reasons. Just wish some brave company would make the rotor-breech to seal up the bolt.

On a dive, dirt and sand got onto the top of my Etek3 top opening and onto the bolt. I knew it will work its way quickly into the breech if I continued to play with it. I quickly switch back to my trusty in-line poppet Axe and played the rest of the day with it.

Can't afford it, but Someday, I will get a GEO, maybe by then it will be the GEO 5.0 for all I know.
There really isnt much that gets into the breach area through the exposed bolt. You actually get a lot more debris in the cut in the feedneck on eclipse guns and through a loader if you are using a speed feed. The added breach wear on stack tubes has more to do with the off axis of the rammer and bolt than the bolt being exposed. A good example of this can be seen in the smart parts nerve or the previous model of cyborg. I do see how some simply don't want anything moving in front of their face though.
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Old 01-11-2015, 11:09 AM #8
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Honestly, your overlooking the axe, its closed bolt, suuuuuuuper easy on paint, and reliable if you tune it right. Then add a lurker bolt and its unable to chop.

however if you want to spend the money on a high end, i would go with the luxe, it has a bad rep for breaking down, but thats because the people with them dont know how to care for them, user error, not gun.

(before axe bashing comes in, i have owned a 3.1, luxe, g6r, and still find myself going back to the axe)
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Old 01-11-2015, 12:08 PM #9
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I would say axe too. But he said 1500 so **** it geo 3.5
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Old 01-11-2015, 12:17 PM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stealthy View Post
There really isnt much that gets into the breach area through the exposed bolt. You actually get a lot more debris in the cut in the feedneck on eclipse guns and through a loader if you are using a speed feed. The added breach wear on stack tubes has more to do with the off axis of the rammer and bolt than the bolt being exposed. A good example of this can be seen in the smart parts nerve or the previous model of cyborg. I do see how some simply don't want anything moving in front of their face though.
my first high end was a nerve, I loved it and am very surprised no one has come out with a closed stack poppit since, that would be real nice on the lv1 platform.
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Old 01-11-2015, 12:23 PM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BP0019 View Post
A Geo will serve you well. Very reliable and gentle on paint.
I second this though, if you want a high end, go for a 3.5. My 3 with an IV core is super reliable and very few breaks. Shot quality isn't really far from other spoolies on the IV core and they just don't go down, minimal o rings to lube as well. I am very curious about the vanquish 2.0 as well though.
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Old 01-11-2015, 01:09 PM #12
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I would go with a Vic with VIS engine the don't break paint, maintenance is a breeze and they are very reliable and have a nice shot.
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Old 01-11-2015, 05:47 PM #13
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Great feedback and discussion, thank you all. I have some homework to do and I will be looking into all the suggestions, yes even the axe. My brother had the LV1 and bought an Etha for a backup. I was curious and took out the Etha for a couple games, and wow was I pleasanty surprised. I thought it was a great gun period. Yeah it had a little more kick to it than I like, but for some reason it just put the paint where I wanted it to go, and in abundance. My brother eventually sold the gun because he never used it, his LV1 never went down. I'm just saying, you can really be surprised by some of these guns. You never know.

I never knew those facts about the nerve, and I agree, I wish they made an enclosed body for something like the LV1. I didn't mention it, but I own 5 Autococker guns, so I'm totally fine with things moving in front of me. I Shoot my ressurection ( with inception design FLE body ) more than any other gun I own, to level down with the rentals, and it's a stud workhorse! I love it. And I do just fine when experienced walkons arrive with their electros. It's only when I'm getting completely outgunned that I reach for one of my electros, the tactical g6r.

But pretty much I will keep all my cockers and sell or trade my two electros for that one awesome tournament gun. So to list off my search:
LV1 (again)
Vis
Axe
Luxe
Vanquish

I will update my findings and any guns I get to shoot or actually get game time in with, and of course which gun I actually end up buying. Thanks again everyone for your help ��
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Old 01-11-2015, 06:05 PM #14
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I wouldn't rule out the VIS either. It's a set it and forget it type marker. Having two regs, there is a little more to setting it up than a single reg marker, but not much. Once the LPR and HPR are close, it's only fine tuning for velocity on any given day. The engine comes out easy. The efficiency is great. The VIS engine shoots smooth and is very reliable. Just an all around great marker.

Really, they all take some maintenance. There isn't one marker that shoots well with no lube or extremely excessive lube. Not much made today is coming out with a consistent problem list. A few designs, typically the balanced spools like the shocker/luxe, are a bit more sensitive to maintenance, but that doesn't mean they are unreliable. The more pressure bias you run, typically the more reliable the marker. Poppets and blow forward spools tend to fit that bill as being less dependent on ideal conditions.

If it were me and I wanted relaible and enclosed bolt, I'd look at the VIS, Geo, and Axe. Maybe toss a GTI in there as well.

Out of curiosity, what doesn't work about the G6r for you? In general it's proven to be a great shooter, pretty reliable, and very efficient. Just wondering if there is an objective reason to skip past what you have to buy something else. If it's just an objective dislike or neutrality to the marker, I can't argue with you, but it seems to meet the stated criteria of a well built and reliable marker.
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Old 01-11-2015, 07:28 PM #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benzy2 View Post
I wouldn't rule out the VIS either. It's a set it and forget it type marker. Having two regs, there is a little more to setting it up than a single reg marker, but not much. Once the LPR and HPR are close, it's only fine tuning for velocity on any given day. The engine comes out easy. The efficiency is great. The VIS engine shoots smooth and is very reliable. Just an all around great marker.

Really, they all take some maintenance. There isn't one marker that shoots well with no lube or extremely excessive lube. Not much made today is coming out with a consistent problem list. A few designs, typically the balanced spools like the shocker/luxe, are a bit more sensitive to maintenance, but that doesn't mean they are unreliable. The more pressure bias you run, typically the more reliable the marker. Poppets and blow forward spools tend to fit that bill as being less dependent on ideal conditions.

If it were me and I wanted relaible and enclosed bolt, I'd look at the VIS, Geo, and Axe. Maybe toss a GTI in there as well.

Out of curiosity, what doesn't work about the G6r for you? In general it's proven to be a great shooter, pretty reliable, and very efficient. Just wondering if there is an objective reason to skip past what you have to buy something else. If it's just an objective dislike or neutrality to the marker, I can't argue with you, but it seems to meet the stated criteria of a well built and reliable marker.
My tactical g6r is a really nice, well made gun. It shoots really well, is super reliable and hardly breaks paint. I feel guilty because I should be really into it, but for some reason it's just not feeling right. I like to just fall in love with a gun from the first moment I play with it. For high end tournament guns, only the shocker sft and DM 14 have done that for me. The g6r, I play in woods mostly and I play bombastic at times, so I kick up dirt a lot. I'm basically playing in dirt and mud and it gets in the crevices and what not. That and when I tried to play speedball, I couldn't find the right setting. I don't really like full auto, I just like one or two settings, psp, or however fast you can pull/walk the trigger.

If I go through all the guns and get some hands on time with them, I can rest easier knowing I picked the gun that was best for me. As far as the current high ends go, the geo 3.5 and dm14 are sweet. I thought that the dm14 shot is smoother than the geo's, and a tad bit quieter, kick is maybe the same, maybe a little more with the geo...

The LV1 was right up there with them too. Shot all around just crisp but smooth at the same time, hardly any kick. For tournament only, it would probably be perfect, but the days when I play woodsball, I'll be wary of rolling and diving and crashing around. Oh and when you get a gun hit in the right area of a poppet, it is a inconvenience, as to where a spooly is generally easier to wipe down and clean off inbetween games.

Btw this discussion is really useful. It's helping me to identify better what I like and don't like further.
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Old 01-11-2015, 08:18 PM #16
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I have both stacked poppets and single tubed markers. I am more cautious when I play with the stacked poppets for the same reason.

I have more fun with the enclosed markers like my Axe. I can craw, roll around, get dirty and have fun doing it.

In the old days I had more fun with my Matrix and Angel, but had bolt jams when dirt or debris got into my half block cocker bolt area.

If I have lots of spare $$$, my choice would be the GEO 3.5

Last edited by SilentBall55 : 01-11-2015 at 08:20 PM.
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Old 01-11-2015, 08:38 PM #17
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This is old school (well, not a current high end), but have you considered a MacDev Cyborg RX? Closed bolt stacked tube poppit. Little maintenance, would serve you well.

Otherwise, a GEO 3.5 sounds about the best.
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Old 01-11-2015, 08:41 PM #18
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Vcom end of story

Quiet , soft on paint , decent air eff. , and alot less o-rings
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Old 01-11-2015, 08:45 PM #19
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OP,

If you like the Inception stuff, and if you at all respect Simon, then perhaps it will help to know that the Axe was one of Simon's projects. One of the gentlest markers on paint ever made, and smooth, quiet, efficient, and crazy reliable as well.

As I was reading your wish list, I kept wondering how it was possible that you've not tried the Axe. It has everything you are looking for, minus the high price tag you are willing to pay.
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Old 01-11-2015, 09:04 PM #20
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Given that you liked your shocker and you want a spool valve, the Luxe seems to be the best choice for you. It's basically a shocker with the latest technology and much better ergonomics. I used Luxes for a full season and never had one break down on me mid event. If you keep it clean and maintain it as directed in the manual, there's no reason you should have an issue. As far as ball breaks are concerned, it was never quick to break paint. Any time my Luxe broke paint, my teammates with Egos, GEOs, and Axes were too. If you're shooting super brittle paint or the weather is cold/wet, you're going to break paint no matter what you're shooting. Any modern high end set properly will rarely chop.
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Old 01-11-2015, 09:17 PM #21
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I'll checkout the cyborg rx, and the vcom. I didn't know Simon designed the axe, that's pretty cool. Yeah I have a FLE body for my ressy and I'm almost done building a bobtail mid block with the help from my friend. I'm A big fan of Simon's work.
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