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10-24-2020, 07:10 PM
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#1
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Montreal, Canada
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The pump market: straight from low to high end.
So basically, there are no mid-end pump gun offering on the market?
It's either an entry-level Azodin or we go straight to high-end models from CCM or Inception Designs. I know, there's CCI with the Phantom but it looks it'll be a very long while before the new owners start producing new guns.
There used to be the Empire Sniper, which could be a solid contender with a few Inception Designs part, but that's been discontinued.
What are your thoughts on this?
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10-24-2020, 07:54 PM
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#2
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Milwaukee Area
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Would any random pump cocker be mid level?
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10-26-2020, 09:10 AM
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#3
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Stock Classy
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NY
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Extreme Is still producing the Phantom although prices have increased and its not as good of a deal as they use to be. They are still quality made and are great options for players who want one marker that can do everything.
A new VSC Phantom sits right in the middle of the KP3.5 and CCM. If you went with a striped down version they can be had closer to the price of the KP.
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10-27-2020, 06:09 PM
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#4
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I have a Sanchez SM-1, which are no longer in production but were in that sweet spot to be considered mid-range. He's been out of business for quite some time from what I can tell, which I guess suggests that the market just wasn't there.
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10-27-2020, 07:38 PM
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#5
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Fluffy Bunnies Pump
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: PHX, AZ
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I would say your "build your own" is mid level too but can become a high end with the right tuning and parts.
Phantoms in the right hands are higher mid to high ends. One of the local guys, Saucy is deadly with his VSC.
Empire sniper out the box is low mid level with the right upgrades it is a good gun unfortunately once you price the parts to improve it the price is as much as a high end.
__________________
Shocker Owners/Pump OT
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10-27-2020, 08:04 PM
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#6
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New gun,old gun,whatever
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Central Wisconsin
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Hadn't realized Empire/GI killed off the Sniper. Not surprised, though. In the last handful of years, they've taken so many good products and let them die from neglect or just straight eliminated them because they're not 20k/year volume items. Pretty sad.
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10-29-2020, 02:14 PM
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#7
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Montreal, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skipdogg
Would any random pump cocker be mid level?
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My question was more pertaining to off the rack products, and not necessarily a situation where you'd have to hunt down components to build something.
Shame where the Sniper is concerned. In its stock form, it wasn't much of a pump gun but with a few cheaply obtained ID parts (namely the hammer and pump guide) its performance could be dramatically improved while still remain a mid-end.
I just visited the CCI website and lo and behold, they now have a Phantom builder, which means that they're widely available again.
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10-29-2020, 11:43 PM
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#8
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Oceanside, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calculon The Great
So basically, there are no mid-end pump gun offering on the market?
It's either an entry-level Azodin or we go straight to high-end models from CCM or Inception Designs. I know, there's CCI with the Phantom but it looks it'll be a very long while before the new owners start producing new guns.
There used to be the Empire Sniper, which could be a solid contender with a few Inception Designs part, but that's been discontinued.
What are your thoughts on this?
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I mean the "High end" spectrum is still $500-700 ish for the most part which is mid-end when compared against the electro scene. The CCM stuff also pretty much retains its value so it is not super painful if you dip your feet in and then decide to sell.
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10-31-2020, 09:52 PM
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#9
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I kind of feel like a "build your own"/pump kit on a cocker could be considered mid-level (depending on the cocker). Doing it this way gives you a lot of control over how much you want to spend as well as overall performance. So I think you could land it in "mid-level" if you wanted. I guess I don't see any straight gun offerings, but throwing a pump kit on a cocker is pretty close.
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11-03-2020, 10:56 PM
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#10
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Valve Monkey Paintball
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Sacramento CA
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Ya - for pump I would think $1000 and up would be high end??
__________________
HK Luxe X gloss black
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11-04-2020, 08:57 AM
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#11
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I can't seem to find anything about snipers being discontinued and I still see retailers selling em. Do you have a link?
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11-04-2020, 10:20 AM
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#12
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Pump Player
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mantua, NJ
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to be honest, the Empire Sniper has so many random issues that it probably should be taken off the market. Most of the Inception Designs "upgrades" aren't really optional upgrades, they solve inherent design flaws with the platform.
You can hardly use the marker with a Ninja regulator without the Inception star ASA plug (or a whole new ASA), the pump handle binds up with the stock guide rod, the Inception hammer fixes the cocking point to make it much harder to short-stroke, etc.
A used Empire Sniper + the Inception upgrades can get you a good pump for a mid-range price, but you could also just buy a used/broken autococker and throw a pump kit on it, you're going to have to swap some parts and learn about pump markers regardless. So you're correct that there isn't really a decent off-the-shelf midrange pump unless you know what you're doing and can make one.
Last edited by g35x : 11-04-2020 at 10:22 AM.
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11-04-2020, 02:33 PM
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#13
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New gun,old gun,whatever
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Central Wisconsin
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FWIW, Empire goes through runs where something will be out of production for a while, then they do a run of them. The Sniper and Resurrection are both still listed on Empire's own site, but both are shown as sold out. Same story with the DFender. The Vanquish, which is done, is not shown on the page at all. I don't have much hope of seeing them back, but they haven't pulled them off the Empire site yet.
My much-loved Trracers went through the "out of stock everywhere" to "we did another run" cycle a couple times before they finally eliminated them entirely.
The Inception mods are definitely things that fixed problems with the Sniper... AND the Resurrection. I've heard the R&D Team (aka Simon) had to fight to have things done the right way sometimes, and the Inception parts are the way he'd have done them in the first place.
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11-10-2020, 09:05 AM
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#14
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This topic is gold. So one end i want to get a pump but all i can get in europe is the empire sniper which is discontinued and from what i read not issue free.
i think at 200~USD i just go for a EMEK then instead for woodsball.
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11-24-2020, 09:12 AM
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#15
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I've had an Empire Sniper for years and love it. I have a Freak barrel kit and a Ninja peanut tank on it and it's super light and easy to run with. The only issue I had was the pump handle being tough to pull and push after a while due to moisture making it swell but that was fixed quickly and easily by drilling the hole in the pump handle wider. I've been very happy with it.
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08-16-2021, 11:11 AM
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#16
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Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Socal
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This is the problem im running into. i currently have a pieced together wgp with a weird 45 frame. it works well enough, but its really heavy and not as smooth as nicer guns. it also doesn't have an autotrigger. the only "midranged" option Ive found is the Empire sniper, which you can still find for 400$ but only in black. anything ccm is going to run north of 1k unless its not all original or is scuffed up. Pump players tend to hold on to their guns. most of the old guys i know have 4+ nice markers (T2s, 6.5s, custom inceptions, phantoms, etc) it makes it really hard for younger players to get a nice gun.
basically, its an old mans market.
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08-17-2021, 10:02 PM
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#17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Temper33
This is the problem im running into. i currently have a pieced together wgp with a weird 45 frame. it works well enough, but its really heavy and not as smooth as nicer guns. it also doesn't have an autotrigger. the only "midranged" option Ive found is the Empire sniper, which you can still find for 400$ but only in black. anything ccm is going to run north of 1k unless its not all original or is scuffed up. Pump players tend to hold on to their guns. most of the old guys i know have 4+ nice markers (T2s, 6.5s, custom inceptions, phantoms, etc) it makes it really hard for younger players to get a nice gun.
basically, its an old mans market.
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CCM's have always been "overpriced". I traded a G6R for my first one back when those were the hot new thing. Figure out what you like and just go for it because it's never really going to make sense. On the bright side you can probably sell it for roughly what you bought it for as long as the price isn't too crazy.
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