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Old 05-20-2020, 08:59 AM #43
Legacy
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Originally Posted by Bushwhacked View Post
Lol no doctor who ever gets through medical school ends up acting like a toddler and with not understanding to how to look at multiple sides of an issue @tomc727. Calling you out on this BS now.
Don't forget that the dumbest guy to graduate med school is still called Doctor.
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Old 05-20-2020, 10:29 AM #44
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Originally Posted by dak22 View Post
Florida's results aren't accurate though. They just stopped reporting to make sure the numbers fit their agenda.
Yep. A lady got fired because she refused to fudge the numbers to make things look better.
Ya we’ll see about that! CBS News ran a story about a nurse who quit because they didn’t have protective masks for her....turned out that nurse hadn’t worked as a nurse in over a year. So I’d wait for the facts to come out on that. Also, Colorado just took 25% of their deaths off their lists. This country has been listing “anyone who dIes WIITH covid”, as a covid death, instead of “anyone who dies FROM covid,” as a covid death. Hospitals have been listing drug overdoses, car accidents, and even suicides and drownings as covid deaths. So I’m guessing “rebellious nurse” in Florida was getting into a dispute over something like that. I’m sure she was trying to list a murder as a covid death, and they told her not to do it and fired her. Again, this story was produced by the media, so wait a day or two for the facts to come out, I’ll bet it gets retracted. Hospitals are getting more federal income when they have covid deaths which means more money! So the story itself isn’t already adding up.
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Old 05-20-2020, 11:10 AM #45
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Originally Posted by Bushwhacked View Post
Lol no doctor who ever gets through medical school ends up acting like a toddler and with not understanding to how to look at multiple sides of an issue @tomc727. Calling you out on this BS now.

Clearly saying he's a doctor trying to loan legitimacy to a bogus viewpoint. Even with nationwide stay at home orders- this disease was far worse than a regular flu. We're on course for almost double the annual deaths from the regular flu and that's AFTER we've been at home for almost 3 months. Let me say that again- we're on course for double the deaths of annual flu and we've literally been sitting at home for a quarter of the year --> aka the virus spread like wildfire when it had its chance to and it still managed to infect 1.5M+ individuals.

Can you imagine how bad things would have gotten if the virus had just ran its course and we completely ignored it? Let me give you a rundown of what would happen if this were the case:

a. Hundreds of thousand more people, and probably millions, would die- resulting in not only an impactful reduction in the workforce but an even scarier environment for the consumer. Can you imagine open air workplaces just letting the virus make its way through all the employees? Shutdowns would have happened anyway- and in this regard you'd also have a much sicker workforce, employees dying, families being unnecessarily exposed etc. This would lead to:
b. People staying at home anyway. Many individuals are able to assess opportunity cost when it comes to their own health. e.g. is going with my family to red lobster worth it when I could expose them all to a deadly virus versus just eating at home for a few months.
c. Our healthcare system would be overwhelmed. Overstressed hospitals would be unable to provide adequate care to all. Quality of care would also drop- more patients means a lower doctor/nurse to patient ratio. Your grandma comes in who's in the high risk group? Sorry, but there aren't enough vents for her, she doens't get to make it. Your dad who's in his late 60's? He doesn't get proper care and doesn't make it.

If anything, this pandemic has exposed the greed and lack of empathy of many Americans (likely people with less education/financial education who never learned how to save a penny in their lives or don't understand the concept of compounding interest/wealth, either that or they don't understand fixed income/dividend investing), it seems many would trade money at the expense of others' lives.

It has also exposed the disorganization and utter incompetence of the current administration. The irony that many cannot see- because they are only interested political theater, is how Trump and co. managed to completely dismantle important federal agencies from the top down when he assumed office. Expertise in any given field (whether it be science, education, housing, etc.) has never been rewarded, only unwavering loyalty. Here are a few examples:

1. Betsy DeVos chosen as secretary of education with no actual experience in public education. Not only does she and her family own private, charter schools (a massive conflict of interest in and of itself), she and none of her children attended public schools. How could a billionaire trust fund baby understand the needs of public educators in this country, let alone be in charge of the entire department? By the way- her $40 million yacht that is parked in Michigan (one of 10 of the DeVos's family boats), is registered to the Cayman Islands even though it is docked in Michigan- therefore she's not paying any taxes on it. Aren't loopholes the greatest? Follow the money when it comes to the recent stimulus intended for our schools and you'll see over $150 million went to privately owned schools. I can guess who owns a few of them.

2. Ben Carson chosen as secretary of housing and urban development. Ben Carson, for those who don't know, is a successful neurosurgeon who was famous for separating conjoined twins. Not to say that the dude has some skills, but he has no expertise or training when it comes to housing or urban development. Once again, only loyalty mattered with this appointment.

3. Andrew Wheeler chosen as secretary of the environmental protection agency. A former coal lobbyist was appointed as the Head of the EPA. I'm not even going to say anything more about this one. If you can't figure it out well then I feel sorry for you.

4. Elaine Chao chosen as secretary of transportation. Married to Mitch McConnell, Chao is the heir of a billionaire Taiwanese shipping magnate. There is a clear conflict of interest here as Mrs. Chao has power over an agency that she can use to give direct benefit to her familiy's company, Foremost Group Inc.

There is an unprecedented level of nepotism and corruption happening right now at the federal level. We live in a very scary time- these individuals would fancy themselves as dictators and autocrats if given an opportunity. They essentially are already oligarchs. Most are wealthy trust fund babies who never worked hard to make their own livings- they come from billionaire families of real estate developers, shipping merchants, and pyramid schemes (i.e. Amway).

It is fortunate that our founding fathers created separation of powers. The current leadership does not care about the duties of the offices they hold, in many cases they would rather dismantle all that America has managed to build and create more ways for them and their families to profit and line their own pockets.
The mortality rate is literally confirmed to be the same as a the flu now. The average age of covid 19 deaths is actually 79 years old, which is even above average life expectancy. And for people under 45, it’s confirmed to be less lethal then the flu. I can’t remember if it was you o had a dispute with on the other page, but I’m going to list some facts that are going to break your heart.

1. Half of all the deaths have been in nursing homes. There’s no vaccine for this, they have zero protection from it.

2. The deaths are inflated. News outlets are reporting over 90k deaths. The CDC knows this, they’ve listed 60k deaths, and the flu killed 80k just 2 years ago.

3. All the antibody tests are coming out. So much of the population has already had this virus, that a lot of experts are starting to believe we’re actually getting close to herd immunity.

4. Case studies of mortality rate. 1200 infections on the USS Roosevelt. 1 death. That brings the mortality rate to LESS then 0.01%. Smithfield meat plant in South Dakota, 1,000 infections, 2 deaths. Case mortality rate of 0.02%. Triumph Foods, Missouri:

405 pos tests/1600 tested (25% infected).

359/405 (89%) asymptomatic.

No deaths.

5. Anti body studies.

IFR by age (Netherlands):
20-29 = 0.004%
30-39 = 0.007%
40-49 = 0.014%
50-59 = 0.10%
60-69 = 0.5%

Antibody testing in France/Spain estimate ~5% infected w/ COVID-19...10x higher prevalence than positive PCR tests

Excluding nursing home deaths, all-age IFR = 0.5%

Assuming 10:1 infection-to-PCR ratio, IFR by age group:

Ages
30-39: 0.01%
40-49: 0.03%
50-59: 0.04%
60-69: 0.19%

Arizona’s antibody testing results (all randomized) Came up with a 0.02% mortality rate, as they found out 20x the population has already had it.

New York listed theirs at 0.03%, but 0.01% for people under 45.

California’s studies from UCLA, Stanford and LA county, listed their mortality rate estimates to be between 0.01-0.03%.


Conclusion: it has the same overall mortality rate as the seasonal flu. It just appears to be much more contagious. You can take your mask off now.
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Old 05-20-2020, 04:45 PM #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushwhacked View Post
Lol no doctor who ever gets through medical school ends up acting like a toddler and with not understanding to how to look at multiple sides of an issue @tomc727. Calling you out on this BS now.

Clearly saying he's a doctor trying to loan legitimacy to a bogus viewpoint. Even with nationwide stay at home orders- this disease was far worse than a regular flu. We're on course for almost double the annual deaths from the regular flu and that's AFTER we've been at home for almost 3 months. Let me say that again- we're on course for double the deaths of annual flu and we've literally been sitting at home for a quarter of the year --> aka the virus spread like wildfire when it had its chance to and it still managed to infect 1.5M+ individuals.

Can you imagine how bad things would have gotten if the virus had just ran its course and we completely ignored it? Let me give you a rundown of what would happen if this were the case:

a. Hundreds of thousand more people, and probably millions, would die- resulting in not only an impactful reduction in the workforce but an even scarier environment for the consumer. Can you imagine open air workplaces just letting the virus make its way through all the employees? Shutdowns would have happened anyway- and in this regard you'd also have a much sicker workforce, employees dying, families being unnecessarily exposed etc. This would lead to:
b. People staying at home anyway. Many individuals are able to assess opportunity cost when it comes to their own health. e.g. is going with my family to red lobster worth it when I could expose them all to a deadly virus versus just eating at home for a few months.
c. Our healthcare system would be overwhelmed. Overstressed hospitals would be unable to provide adequate care to all. Quality of care would also drop- more patients means a lower doctor/nurse to patient ratio. Your grandma comes in who's in the high risk group? Sorry, but there aren't enough vents for her, she doens't get to make it. Your dad who's in his late 60's? He doesn't get proper care and doesn't make it.

If anything, this pandemic has exposed the greed and lack of empathy of many Americans (likely people with less education/financial education who never learned how to save a penny in their lives or don't understand the concept of compounding interest/wealth, either that or they don't understand fixed income/dividend investing), it seems many would trade money at the expense of others' lives.

It has also exposed the disorganization and utter incompetence of the current administration. The irony that many cannot see- because they are only interested political theater, is how Trump and co. managed to completely dismantle important federal agencies from the top down when he assumed office. Expertise in any given field (whether it be science, education, housing, etc.) has never been rewarded, only unwavering loyalty. Here are a few examples:

1. Betsy DeVos chosen as secretary of education with no actual experience in public education. Not only does she and her family own private, charter schools (a massive conflict of interest in and of itself), she and none of her children attended public schools. How could a billionaire trust fund baby understand the needs of public educators in this country, let alone be in charge of the entire department? By the way- her $40 million yacht that is parked in Michigan (one of 10 of the DeVos's family boats), is registered to the Cayman Islands even though it is docked in Michigan- therefore she's not paying any taxes on it. Aren't loopholes the greatest? Follow the money when it comes to the recent stimulus intended for our schools and you'll see over $150 million went to privately owned schools. I can guess who owns a few of them.

2. Ben Carson chosen as secretary of housing and urban development. Ben Carson, for those who don't know, is a successful neurosurgeon who was famous for separating conjoined twins. Not to say that the dude has some skills, but he has no expertise or training when it comes to housing or urban development. Once again, only loyalty mattered with this appointment.

3. Andrew Wheeler chosen as secretary of the environmental protection agency. A former coal lobbyist was appointed as the Head of the EPA. I'm not even going to say anything more about this one. If you can't figure it out well then I feel sorry for you.

4. Elaine Chao chosen as secretary of transportation. Married to Mitch McConnell, Chao is the heir of a billionaire Taiwanese shipping magnate. There is a clear conflict of interest here as Mrs. Chao has power over an agency that she can use to give direct benefit to her familiy's company, Foremost Group Inc.

There is an unprecedented level of nepotism and corruption happening right now at the federal level. We live in a very scary time- these individuals would fancy themselves as dictators and autocrats if given an opportunity. They essentially are already oligarchs. Most are wealthy trust fund babies who never worked hard to make their own livings- they come from billionaire families of real estate developers, shipping merchants, and pyramid schemes (i.e. Amway).

It is fortunate that our founding fathers created separation of powers. The current leadership does not care about the duties of the offices they hold, in many cases they would rather dismantle all that America has managed to build and create more ways for them and their families to profit and line their own pockets.
Trump Derangement Syndrome runs deep with you. He lives rent free in your mind.

Trump was not the topic of this post and was never brought up.

You can believe anything you want. The data says otherwise.

For tonight, I will go work in the COVID ICU and manage the patients. But again, I donít know anything.
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Old 05-20-2020, 04:51 PM #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor the great View Post
The mortality rate is literally confirmed to be the same as a the flu now. The average age of covid 19 deaths is actually 79 years old, which is even above average life expectancy. And for people under 45, itís confirmed to be less lethal then the flu. I canít remember if it was you o had a dispute with on the other page, but Iím going to list some facts that are going to break your heart.

1. Half of all the deaths have been in nursing homes. Thereís no vaccine for this, they have zero protection from it.

2. The deaths are inflated. News outlets are reporting over 90k deaths. The CDC knows this, theyíve listed 60k deaths, and the flu killed 80k just 2 years ago.

3. All the antibody tests are coming out. So much of the population has already had this virus, that a lot of experts are starting to believe weíre actually getting close to herd immunity.

4. Case studies of mortality rate. 1200 infections on the USS Roosevelt. 1 death. That brings the mortality rate to LESS then 0.01%. Smithfield meat plant in South Dakota, 1,000 infections, 2 deaths. Case mortality rate of 0.02%. Triumph Foods, Missouri:

405 pos tests/1600 tested (25% infected).

359/405 (89%) asymptomatic.

No deaths.

5. Anti body studies.

IFR by age (Netherlands):
20-29 = 0.004%
30-39 = 0.007%
40-49 = 0.014%
50-59 = 0.10%
60-69 = 0.5%

Antibody testing in France/Spain estimate ~5% infected w/ COVID-19...10x higher prevalence than positive PCR tests

Excluding nursing home deaths, all-age IFR = 0.5%

Assuming 10:1 infection-to-PCR ratio, IFR by age group:

Ages
30-39: 0.01%
40-49: 0.03%
50-59: 0.04%
60-69: 0.19%

Arizonaís antibody testing results (all randomized) Came up with a 0.02% mortality rate, as they found out 20x the population has already had it.

New York listed theirs at 0.03%, but 0.01% for people under 45.

Californiaís studies from UCLA, Stanford and LA county, listed their mortality rate estimates to be between 0.01-0.03%.


Conclusion: it has the same overall mortality rate as the seasonal flu. It just appears to be much more contagious. You can take your mask off now.
Very well said.

The big 3 antibody studies recently being completed, University of Miami, LA County, and NYC, have been finding similar results, which many more people than expected who had the virus. All studies had a mortality rate of 0.04%-0.12%, which is very interesting because they were 3 separate studies.

Everyone can have whatever opinion they want, but facts are facts. When this is all said and done, the hysteria will kill far more than the virus.

And just today, the CDC reported that transmission is minimal from inanimate objects and mainly from person to person.

Everyone can stop wearing the gloves in Walmart now. 😂
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Old 05-20-2020, 09:26 PM #48
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Old 05-21-2020, 05:27 AM #49
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Originally Posted by Trevor the great View Post
The mortality rate is literally confirmed to be the same as a the flu now. The average age of covid 19 deaths is actually 79 years old, which is even above average life expectancy. And for people under 45, itís confirmed to be less lethal then the flu. I canít remember if it was you o had a dispute with on the other page, but Iím going to list some facts that are going to break your heart.

1. Half of all the deaths have been in nursing homes. Thereís no vaccine for this, they have zero protection from it.

2. The deaths are inflated. News outlets are reporting over 90k deaths. The CDC knows this, theyíve listed 60k deaths, and the flu killed 80k just 2 years ago.

Conclusion: it has the same overall mortality rate as the seasonal flu. It just appears to be much more contagious. You can take your mask off now.

So most the country has been on lockdown for 2+ months.
Most businesses are closed.
Essential businesses are closing early and sanitizing.
Most states require masks and social distancing.
Restaurants are take-out only.
There are no social gatherings allowed.
Flights are down 90% (which is the fastest way to spread diseases)
Nobody is traveling
People working from home


How are you comparing numbers to a regular flu season which lasts Oct-April (even into May) with ZERO restrictions on what people can do? Must be nice to use skewed results to make your point.

Whether the death toll is 60k or 90k in this short span, the point is it WOULD have been a lot worse than any flu season if you gave Covid 20+ weeks without any precautions taken. And if you dont think so then you have to be brain dead. Also its not just about death rate as some can get permanent lung damage or strokes.

Ill keep my mask on cause I have parents I care about. Thanks!
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Old 05-21-2020, 06:36 AM #50
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Don't forget that the dumbest guy to graduate med school is still called Doctor.
One of the guys on my team is a doctor and he has a child's mind.
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Old 05-21-2020, 07:05 AM #51
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Originally Posted by Paint_hore View Post
So most the country has been on lockdown for 2+ months.
Most businesses are closed.
Essential businesses are closing early and sanitizing.
Most states require masks and social distancing.
Restaurants are take-out only.
There are no social gatherings allowed.
Flights are down 90% (which is the fastest way to spread diseases)
Nobody is traveling
People working from home


How are you comparing numbers to a regular flu season which lasts Oct-April (even into May) with ZERO restrictions on what people can do? Must be nice to use skewed results to make your point.

Whether the death toll is 60k or 90k in this short span, the point is it WOULD have been a lot worse than any flu season if you gave Covid 20+ weeks without any precautions taken. And if you dont think so then you have to be brain dead. Also its not just about death rate as some can get permanent lung damage or strokes.

Ill keep my mask on cause I have parents I care about. Thanks!
The lockdown had nothing to do with decreasing infection or death. It was to spread the infection and death out over a longer time to decrease healthcare burden.
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Old 05-21-2020, 08:08 AM #52
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Originally Posted by tomc727 View Post
The lockdown had nothing to do with decreasing infection or death. It was to spread the infection and death out over a longer time to decrease healthcare burden.
this deceases death, because patients can get the care they need.
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Old 05-21-2020, 08:17 AM #53
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Sad day for IL paintball - ohare had a great reputation around here, and even before our current situation I'm aware that a few other fields in west suburbs are facing some business challenges.

As for the other off topic content - I'll stay out of that dumpster fire discussion other than to suggest that
• there ARE domestic & global communities and associations of experts discussing and creating informed opinions on the topics at hand,
• those groups probably aren't posting on paintball forums (or for the most part, other social media)

Question where you get your information, do find your own facts, don't fret too much about 1-2 people's POV even if they state it with great confidence.
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Old 05-21-2020, 08:32 AM #54
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Sad day for IL paintball - ohare had a great reputation around here, and even before our current situation I'm aware that a few other fields in west suburbs are facing some business challenges.

As for the other off topic content - I'll stay out of that dumpster fire discussion other than to suggest that
ē there ARE domestic & global communities and associations of experts discussing and creating informed opinions on the topics at hand,
ē those groups probably aren't posting on paintball forums (or for the most part, other social media)

Question where you get your information, do find your own facts, don't fret too much about 1-2 people's POV even if they state it with great confidence.
Personally I'm not well equipped to discuss a global pandemic on anything more than a philosophical level. I'm going to leave the recommendations of what we should be doing to the experts. That being said I live in a county that has a higher per capita infection rate than NYC because of an outbreak at a meat packing plant. Where I work we employ roughly 3500 people, the meat packing plant has around 2500. Now I'm no expert in infectious disease but the meat packing plant had about half of their employees catch this, and 3 or 4 have died. My employer with 1000 more people has had 4 cases. The difference is the meat packing plant didn't take CDC/WHO recommendations seriously and my employer provided masks, face shields and hand sanitizer to everybody in the building very early on. Now like I said I'm no expert in infectious disease but it sure seems to me that anecdotally following those recommendations sure seems like it works.

Now if you want to have a discussion on the design of gear pumps or how to make an autococker work then I'm you guy but I'm going to leave the recommendations for how to prevent the spread of the rona to the experts at the CDC and WHO because they sure seem to know what they are talking about from what I've seen.
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Old 05-21-2020, 11:35 AM #55
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Trump Derangement Syndrome runs deep with you. He lives rent free in your mind.

Trump was not the topic of this post and was never brought up.

You can believe anything you want. The data says otherwise.

For tonight, I will go work in the COVID ICU and manage the patients. But again, I don’t know anything.
Clearly you just ignored everything I said about corruption and special interests. That's fine. He and many others don't live 'rent free,' they just attempt to create and exploit as many loopholes as they can (aka the DeVos yacht situation) to make sure their tax exposure is as low as possible (repeal Glass Stiegel, right?). I don't blame the guy or any other HNWIs for not wanting to release his tax statements to the public- capital gains tax is a complete joke in America. His tax rate is probably something around 25% (highest tax bracket for cap. gains) because his real income is essentially zero if you compared the amount of cash he's generating off of passive invesmtents. White collar crime is a pretty common theme with the republican party- 89 convicted republican politician criminals in the past 50 years compared to 1 democrat. It's just ironic because the vast majority of republicans are blue collar workers. The elected are just white collar oligarchs and actually nothing like the people who vote for them- many inherited their wealth and never actually learned the value of real work and a dollar like the people they supposedly represent. I guess democrats just lose because they don't understand that money is all that matters when it comes to American politics.

It's not even worth investing any more energy into the point I'm trying to make, idiots are just gonna idiot anyway and have been essentially indocrinated since birth that they should join the military to be soldiers for wars that aren't really theirs. Clinging to religion, emotionally based reasoning, and fear tactics also allows them to peddle the idea that abortion is a bad idea, too. Wouldn't want those low income individuals to potentially kill another soldier for the rich man's war (seems like Cheney and Haliburton got a real good deal out of the whole Iraq situation, eh? Thanks for dying for money that you and your family never saw a dime of, bro.). I thought the whole "right vs left thing" was about reducing America's debt burden vs increasing it? I guess that all went out the window with the corporate and high tax bracket tax cuts from a couple years ago, didn't it?

It's just funny to watch it from a 30,000 foot view- it's all a theater to disguise for things that help them line their pockets. The American dream is dying. The rich have won and will do anything to cling to power at the expense of the poor. Blood is thicker than water, after all.

Last edited by Bushwhacked : 05-21-2020 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 05-21-2020, 11:59 AM #56
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Lmao RIP paintball. Peace out
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Old 05-21-2020, 04:38 PM #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor the great View Post
The mortality rate is literally confirmed to be the same as a the flu now. The average age of covid 19 deaths is actually 79 years old, which is even above average life expectancy. And for people under 45, it’s confirmed to be less lethal then the flu. I can’t remember if it was you o had a dispute with on the other page, but I’m going to list some facts that are going to break your heart.

1. Half of all the deaths have been in nursing homes. There’s no vaccine for this, they have zero protection from it.

2. The deaths are inflated. News outlets are reporting over 90k deaths. The CDC knows this, they’ve listed 60k deaths, and the flu killed 80k just 2 years ago.

Conclusion: it has the same overall mortality rate as the seasonal flu. It just appears to be much more contagious. You can take your mask off now.

So most the country has been on lockdown for 2+ months.
Most businesses are closed.
Essential businesses are closing early and sanitizing.
Most states require masks and social distancing.
Restaurants are take-out only.
There are no social gatherings allowed.
Flights are down 90% (which is the fastest way to spread diseases)
Nobody is traveling
People working from home


How are you comparing numbers to a regular flu season which lasts Oct-April (even into May) with ZERO restrictions on what people can do? Must be nice to use skewed results to make your point.

Whether the death toll is 60k or 90k in this short span, the point is it WOULD have been a lot worse than any flu season if you gave Covid 20+ weeks without any precautions taken. And if you dont think so then you have to be brain dead. Also its not just about death rate as some can get permanent lung damage or strokes.

Ill keep my mask on cause I have parents I care about. Thanks!
I’m comparing the mortality rate to the seasonal flu. Not the infection rate. Again, large amount, mass infections, small amount of death. Again, take the case samples of mass infection. 1200 infected on the USS Roosevelt, 1 death, 4 hospitalized. 1000 infected at the Tyson plant, 2 deaths. Triumph foods in Missouri, 405 infected, ZERO deaths (nearly 70% never developed symptoms.)

I’m beating a dead horse here. Again, HIGH INFECTION RATE, low fatality rate.

Also sweden never locked down, no closures and they had the same death and infection rates. There’s no proof these lockdowns did anything, there’s only proof that it made the infection rates higher. 66% of April’s infections came from....people who hadn’t left their houses since March.
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Old 05-21-2020, 06:47 PM #58
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Old 05-21-2020, 08:24 PM #59
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Originally Posted by Trevor the great View Post
I’m comparing the mortality rate to the seasonal flu. Not the infection rate. Again, large amount, mass infections, small amount of death. Again, take the case samples of mass infection. 1200 infected on the USS Roosevelt, 1 death, 4 hospitalized. 1000 infected at the Tyson plant, 2 deaths. Triumph foods in Missouri, 405 infected, ZERO deaths (nearly 70% never developed symptoms.)

I’m beating a dead horse here. Again, HIGH INFECTION RATE, low fatality rate.

Also sweden never locked down, no closures and they had the same death and infection rates. There’s no proof these lockdowns did anything, there’s only proof that it made the infection rates higher. 66% of April’s infections came from....people who hadn’t left their houses since March.
An economic study came out today saying just that, there is no evidence that these lockdowns did anything but shutdown the economy and put millions out of work, with many businesses going under completely.

The study even states how the lockdown made the numbers worse, compared to states that did not shutdown.

Again, the lockdown was never to decrease infection or death but was to decrease healthcare burden. There was no burden anywhere except for NYC.
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Old 05-21-2020, 10:25 PM #60
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Originally Posted by tomc727 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor the great View Post
I’m comparing the mortality rate to the seasonal flu. Not the infection rate. Again, large amount, mass infections, small amount of death. Again, take the case samples of mass infection. 1200 infected on the USS Roosevelt, 1 death, 4 hospitalized. 1000 infected at the Tyson plant, 2 deaths. Triumph foods in Missouri, 405 infected, ZERO deaths (nearly 70% never developed symptoms.)

I’m beating a dead horse here. Again, HIGH INFECTION RATE, low fatality rate.

Also sweden never locked down, no closures and they had the same death and infection rates. There’s no proof these lockdowns did anything, there’s only proof that it made the infection rates higher. 66% of April’s infections came from....people who hadn’t left their houses since March.
An economic study came out today saying just that, there is no evidence that these lockdowns did anything but shutdown the economy and put millions out of work, with many businesses going under completely.

The study even states how the lockdown made the numbers worse, compared to states that did not shutdown.

Again, the lockdown was never to decrease infection or death but was to decrease healthcare burden. There was no burden anywhere except for NYC.
It’s uncharted territory, nobody knew what the hell was going to happen, or what to do about it
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Old 05-22-2020, 12:53 AM #61
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Sorry to see the last Chicagoland indoor close. Jeff & Co were always fun to be around and did a lot to support the local playing community.

For the covid naysayers here, let's get a few things straight. This push to re-open prematurely is not happening because it's safe. I work in the medical field. I've personally visited medical facilities and supplemented this with firsthand reports from peers. This is ugly, and it's far from under control. Hospitals are still struggling to get what they need. Testing is deliberately suppressed or under-reported to hide the scope of the damage. Warehouses in operation are discovering that you cannot overstate the ability of covid to spread like wildfire. We're seeing facilities losing over 50% of the workforce to confirmed cases within a few weeks of re-opening. When you can be asymptomatic for an extended period of time - meaning you look and feel healthy - you can do serious damage to those around you. This paired with tendencies to bend safety rules (wear the mask below your nose/mouth, ignore 6 foot rule, etc) can have disastrous results.

Re-opening now is about voter suppression. The GOP wants to take away the justification for vote by mail, and reduce the number of people who have time to vote at traditional polling stations due to work from home conditions. If voting becomes unusually accessible for the majority of Americans, the Democratic party will have an edge in November. Continuing vote by mail will result in the vocal minority GOP seeing additional downstream losses in congressional races. Even if Trump wins the election by the skin of his teeth, changes to the outcome of future Senate races driven by mail-in ballots can lead to the dems attaining sufficient numbers to impeach. Until then, all of this squabbling and medically irrational decision making is going to result in one outcome. We open too soon, the quarantine clock has to be reset, and more businesses like O'Hare Paintball Park go under.
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Old 05-22-2020, 06:13 AM #62
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Originally Posted by pbfan3068 View Post
Sorry to see the last Chicagoland indoor close. Jeff & Co were always fun to be around and did a lot to support the local playing community.

For the covid naysayers here, let's get a few things straight. This push to re-open prematurely is not happening because it's safe. I work in the medical field. I've personally visited medical facilities and supplemented this with firsthand reports from peers. This is ugly, and it's far from under control. Hospitals are still struggling to get what they need. Testing is deliberately suppressed or under-reported to hide the scope of the damage. Warehouses in operation are discovering that you cannot overstate the ability of covid to spread like wildfire. We're seeing facilities losing over 50% of the workforce to confirmed cases within a few weeks of re-opening. When you can be asymptomatic for an extended period of time - meaning you look and feel healthy - you can do serious damage to those around you. This paired with tendencies to bend safety rules (wear the mask below your nose/mouth, ignore 6 foot rule, etc) can have disastrous results.

Re-opening now is about voter suppression. The GOP wants to take away the justification for vote by mail, and reduce the number of people who have time to vote at traditional polling stations due to work from home conditions. If voting becomes unusually accessible for the majority of Americans, the Democratic party will have an edge in November. Continuing vote by mail will result in the vocal minority GOP seeing additional downstream losses in congressional races. Even if Trump wins the election by the skin of his teeth, changes to the outcome of future Senate races driven by mail-in ballots can lead to the dems attaining sufficient numbers to impeach. Until then, all of this squabbling and medically irrational decision making is going to result in one outcome. We open too soon, the quarantine clock has to be reset, and more businesses like O'Hare Paintball Park go under.

This is just speculation that has ran wild. Read multiple studies on past elections and mail in votes have never had a significant impact for either side of the fence ever before.
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Old 05-22-2020, 02:39 PM #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor the great View Post
Iím comparing the mortality rate to the seasonal flu. Not the infection rate. Again, large amount, mass infections, small amount of death. Again, take the case samples of mass infection. 1200 infected on the USS Roosevelt, 1 death, 4 hospitalized. 1000 infected at the Tyson plant, 2 deaths. Triumph foods in Missouri, 405 infected, ZERO deaths (nearly 70% never developed symptoms.)

Iím beating a dead horse here. Again, HIGH INFECTION RATE, low fatality rate.

Also sweden never locked down, no closures and they had the same death and infection rates. Thereís no proof these lockdowns did anything, thereís only proof that it made the infection rates higher. 66% of Aprilís infections came from....people who hadnít left their houses since March.
Simply not true. Sweden's per capita death rate is nearly 4X Denmark's, 7X Finland's, and 8X Norway's. For reference, our death rate is about 3X Denmark's, 5X Finland's, and 6X Norway's. Bear in mind that's on top of Denmark and Finland in particular having older populations than America. The relatively low effectiveness of the US lockdowns vs. other countries is largely because they came about a month too late, not because they don't work in general.

International source:
https://www.france24.com/en/20200517...f-the-epidemic
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