[soccerguy243]

Originally Posted by Trevor the great

Where did the flu go? Did all these masks seriously kill off the flu by lowering flu cases and deaths by 95%+, while covid spreads like wild fire? That one sure doesn’t add up.

Yes, the flu being less contagious has been well contained thanks to masks, social distancing, increased hand washing, and virtual meetings. Furthermore there WAS a flu vaccine available for the 2020 flu season. People are hyper aware of symptoms and anything resembling a cold or flu has caused people to stay home or telework. These all added up to drastically reduce the flu:

Binnicker’s lab has run 20,000 flu tests—10 times as many as it processed the season before—and zero have come back positive. “It’s absolutely remarkable,” Binnicker, the Mayo Clinic’s director of clinical virology, told me. “I fully expected there to be a typical influenza season this year.”

Since early fall, about 800,000 laboratory samples have been tested in the United States for the flu and reported to the CDC, and only 1,500 or so have come up positive—a mere 0.2 percent. This time last year, close to 100 times as many flu cases had been identified from nearly the same number of tests.


Remember the flu is caused by an influenza virus for which a preemptive vaccine was available; which may have had a higher "take rate" as well. Covid-19 is caused by a novel coronavirus that has never infected humans before, for which there was not a preemptive vaccine available.

[North Shore Shooter]

Im really glad we got to talking about how Trudeau and his pathetic Liberals are creating a Bill that does nothing to stop the issue. But let's not only **** on current law abiding citizens and on two sports that use guns. Paintball and Airsoft.

What's more annoying is instead of talking about how this will impact canadian PB n AS players, we have 2-3 peeps with massive ignorance and ****ty attitudes take away from the topic and replace it with Covid 19 and how our governments are full of ****. Great job Soccorguy243, Trevor the Great, Jonotwist.

[jonotwist]

Originally Posted by North Shore Shooter

Im really glad we got to talking about how Trudeau and his pathetic Liberals are creating a Bill that does nothing to stop the issue. But let's not only **** on current law abiding citizens and on two sports that use guns. Paintball and Airsoft.

What's more annoying is instead of talking about how this will impact canadian PB n AS players, we have 2-3 peeps with massive ignorance and ****ty attitudes take away from the topic and replace it with Covid 19 and how our governments are full of ****. Great job Soccorguy243, Trevor the Great, Jonotwist.

no you have a point, the discussion should not have veered to covid.
I fed a troll. my bad.

getting back on topic,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgPuX86bOpg

Petition E-3201: http://bit.ly/3q5UmfX​

Non-Canadians Support Petition: http://bit.ly/3kIjE2r​

Local MP Locator: http://bit.ly/2PnSHp7​

Saving Airsoft: http://bit.ly/2NNvDQx​

BILL C-21: http://bit.ly/3uQZ3O3

[hth_1]

Where are the Quebec and Ontario people on this? Certainly they must also be upset

[Blue Air Tech]

TLDR: I am a paintballer and this affects me none son.

Quoted from the C-21 Bill Break down:

Ensure mid-velocity 'replica' firearms are prohibited, update the Criminal Code to ensure that any device, including an unregulated airgun that looks exactly like a conventional regulated firearm (i.e., shoots over 500 feet per second), is prohibited for the purposes of import, export, sale and transfer.

I think Airsoft should get regulated to a do not cross FPS just like paintball.

In my personal opinion and experience the Airsoft community does not always adhere to strict FPS limits.

Start painting the tip of the barrels orange again, no one can eye the bore diameter difference between 6mm and 5.56mm, this should not be up to the public or law enforcement to distinguish between.

Current owners may keep their 'replicas' but cannot transfer them to anyone else.
No further 'replica' firearms could be imported into, or sold/transferred in Canada.
This amendment does not affect other types of airguns that do not exactly replicate a conventional regulated firearm.

The last line is the door at the end of the tunnel for an Airsoft player, ensure your equipment does not fully replicate a real firearm.

I can spot a paintball marker at 50 yards in a blink, but I sometimes have to handle an Airsoft pistol or rifle to tell the difference. (I am a rifle owner as well so don't jump down my throat.)

Finally the C-21 Bill is big, and not aimed at this problem at all, it addresses other issues aimed at firearms in Canada. The Airsoft/Milsim community is not the tip of the spear on this one, actual firearm owners are.

My suggestion (and I know I'll get flakked bad for this) is for the community to read the rules, understand them and figure out a way to continue doing what they love inside of the policies. If that means setting national FPS limits, orange tipped barrels and waring labels on the side of your rig to point out it isn't real then do it. Because in my opinion all the community is doing screaming loud with their hands in their pockets while the government takes it all quietly away.

If you hate me for my opinion on this matter turn it into energy against this problem, lighting me up will get you nowhere.

[jonotwist]

Originally Posted by Blue Air Tech

TLDR: I am a paintballer and this affects me none son.

I think Airsoft should get regulated to a do not cross FPS just like paintball.

Finally the C-21 Bill is big, and not aimed at this problem at all, it addresses other issues aimed at firearms in Canada. The Airsoft/Milsim community is not the tip of the spear on this one, actual firearm owners are.

My suggestion (and I know I'll get flakked bad for this) is for the community to read the rules, understand them and figure out a way to continue doing what they love inside of the policies. If that means setting national FPS limits, orange tipped barrels and waring labels on the side of your rig to point out it isn't real then do it

If you hate me for my opinion on this matter turn it into energy against this problem, lighting me up will get you nowhere.

heavier self regulation is not a bad idea,

one gripe I know airsofters will bring up is how the gear they have is limited. They classify FPS limits by the class of gun you have. it may just be the ticket to still reign in the FPS limits, but do so across the board sniper/lmg what have you.

The law as is can do better to regulate look alike airsoft and paintball markers though. it seem the issue its trying to address is brandishing.

If the airsoft gear stays locked away until play, no problem I suppose.

[(dr)]

You wanna vote left, this is what you get.

You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. Canada jumped off that ship of logic and conservatism a long time ago. This is just a byproduct of doing things that don't make sense as policy/law.

[jonotwist]

Originally Posted by (dr)

You wanna vote left, this is what you get.

You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. Canada jumped off that ship of logic and conservatism a long time ago. This is just a byproduct of doing things that don't make sense as policy/law.

eh, before another derailment... Left and right have nothing to do with logic.
each end of the spectrums are full of moronic ideals and thoughts.

This seems to be a law being passed that is trying to do too much without verifying each and every facet that the law will affect.

Occam's razor.

[grmusky]

They are going after replica firearms and the glorification of Gun Violence RCMP, CISI CBSA and the national assco of police chiefs HATE replicas. I know this after conversations with them at our field.

A big worry is the line in the legislation that say Glorifying gun violence through sales and marketing That is how the people that are writing the legislation think.

The 500 FPS is often read wrong, It is also 5.7 joules.
it is > a replica of something that shoots over 500 or 5.7 joules.
this affects 1 fps all the way to 500 FPS\s. 1 to 365fps are already Banned.

Does it affect paintball ? I have been involved in Importing paintball while dodging the replica thing since 2006. And while the current Airsoft rules were in place. the large barrel, the ASA , the feed neck, a tank stock always kept paintball out of the replica thing, with the exception of the RAP 4 shell ejecting 43 cal replica MP5guns for awhile.

Airsoft is dragging paintball into a mess. paintball needs to keep separate but needs to fight as well. And the magfed guy need to be playing tag, not running Milsiims.

[ScottQ]

Originally Posted by grmusky

And the magfed guy need to be playing tag, not running Milsiims.

What do you mean by this?

[jonotwist]

It is interesting that the exception is made with a feedneck, ASA, and large bore to skirt around the law.

The 500 FPS is often read wrong, It is also 5.7 joules.
it is > a replica of something that shoots over 500 or 5.7 joules.
this affects 1 fps all the way to 500 FPS\s. 1 to 365fps are already Banned.

not that im grilling you, but a .68 paintball at 300 fps is about 1.3 J, no?

[grmusky]

Originally Posted by jonotwist

It is interesting that the exception is made with a feedneck, ASA, and large bore to skirt around the law.

It's not a skirt. the law says exact replica, if it has an ASA. is 15% different in size or has a feedneck, it is not currently considered a replica, as it looks noticeably different

not that I'm grilling you, but a .68 paintball at 300 fps is about 1.3 J, no?

>Yes paintball are 1.4-2 joules. this is where folks get confused. Over 5.7 is Firearm classification, Under is Replica. A toy that is a replica gun that shoots 0 fps is currently prohibited, and will also be in C-21. Currently there is an exemption 366-500 FPS ( and corresponding joules) is exempt.

[jonotwist]

Originally Posted by grmusky

>Yes paintball are 1.4-2 joules. this is where folks get confused. Over 5.7 is Firearm classification, Under is Replica. A toy that is a replica gun that shoots 0 fps is currently prohibited, and will also be in C-21. Currently there is an exemption 366-500 FPS ( and corresponding joules) is exempt.

gotcha, thanks for clarity

[grmusky]

Originally Posted by ScottQ

What do you mean by this?

The CBSA, RCMP, CISIS and the Chiefs of police, Do not like that civilians are doing tactical training. They fear the USA style militia culture.
As a field owner i know this. They visit us and talk about it with us.
I could easily point out a facebook profile of a player with his profile pic as him Snipping off the top of an apartment building. right or wrong that's not good for us.

Forums are good places to that, Facebook is not, Your next door neighbors are freaked the freak out. I'm not saying I agree with how things are, I'm pointing out, how things are.
PS before my US friends jump on us, California and Minnesota have both been through this recently, and Bieden was elected with a majority vote.

[ScottQ]

Originally Posted by grmusky

The CBSA, RCMP, CISIS and the Chiefs of police, Do not like that civilians are doing tactical training. They fear the USA style militia culture.
As a field owner i know this. They visit us and talk about it with us.
I could easily point out a facebook profile of a player with his profile pic as him Snipping off the top of an apartment building. right or wrong that's not good for us.

Forums are good places to that, Facebook is not, Your next door neighbors are freaked the freak out. I'm not saying I agree with how things are, I'm pointing out, how things are.
PS before my US friends jump on us, California and Minnesota have both been through this recently, and Bieden was elected with a majority vote.

Tactical training? They're just playing paintball. I call it LARPing. Paintball is a game of using a device to launch a projectile to hit another human. Are you saying we dictate how people should play the game of paintball?

[grmusky]

Originally Posted by ScottQ

Tactical training? They're just playing paintball. I call it LARPing. Paintball is a game of using a device to launch a projectile to hit another human. Are you saying we dictate how people should play the game of paintball?

Airsoft has serious Milsom events, There are businesses that advertise real world operators teaching training. My point is That is not the type of thing to have on social media. and that paintball (magfed) is starting to head down that same direction.

The grandfathers of paintball understood this, that's way it's A5, not MP5....

[MstrKey]

Originally Posted by grmusky

Airsoft has serious Milsom events, There are businesses that advertise real world operators teaching training. My point is That is not the type of thing to have on social media. and that paintball (magfed) is starting to head down that same direction.

The grandfathers of paintball understood this, that's way it's A5, not MP5....

Exactly. Originally when we were coming up with the concept for skyball, we made it NO CAMO for a reason. You see "banners"(people who like to ban things) are not thinkers. They're reactors. Coming up with real solutions to problems takes a lot of time, effort, study and sometimes large words. Banning is easy and who cares when it's the minority who suffer right? Until it comes to be your turn.......then you're sorry. Banners don't care about freedom, sport, fun, exercise, safety statistics or reality. They have an emotional image in their minds and that's all they care about. YOU are a militaristic whacko. Because you pretend to be one. That's the limit of their understanding of things. Shallow and I hate to say it......bigotted.

We knew this in the early days of the game so we wanted to move paintball away from milsim like activities because that WILL set off the emotions of the banners. They will cry and yell and the squeeky wheel always get the grease. Freedom always flows to less, not more and the media will always help the worst reality come true for profit.

My days in the game are numbered by age but we told you so. It worked for a decade or so but now it's all coming back to the reality we tried to prevent. Mil sim, mag fed, airsoft. Space guns don't get you banned. Replicas ALWAYS get you banned. It's that simple.

[Paul77]

Originally Posted by MstrKey

Exactly. Originally when we were coming up with the concept for skyball, we made it NO CAMO for a reason. You see "banners"(people who like to ban things) are not thinkers. They're reactors. Coming up with real solutions to problems takes a lot of time, effort, study and sometimes large words. Banning is easy and who cares when it's the minority who suffer right? Until it comes to be your turn.......then you're sorry. Banners don't care about freedom, sport, fun, exercise, safety statistics or reality. They have an emotional image in their minds and that's all they care about. YOU are a militaristic whacko. Because you pretend to be one. That's the limit of their understanding of things. Shallow and I hate to say it......bigotted.

We knew this in the early days of the game so we wanted to move paintball away from milsim like activities because that WILL set off the emotions of the banners. They will cry and yell and the squeeky wheel always get the grease. Freedom always flows to less, not more and the media will always help the worst reality come true for profit.

My days in the game are numbered by age but we told you so. It worked for a decade or so but now it's all coming back to the reality we tried to prevent. Mil sim, mag fed, airsoft. Space guns don't get you banned. Replicas ALWAYS get you banned. It's that simple.

Agree'd, i started in 1993 and fully remember the days of getting rid of red paint and moving away from camos and markers that looked like "replicas". We had gotten rid of most of it but then it came back bigger than ever. I always thought it was a bad idea/look for us.

you can play woodsball without the real camos and ar's all the same.

im actually fine with this bill if it makes law enforcements jobs easier one iota. sorry milsim/airsoft

[PBSales]

Originally Posted by ScottQ

Tactical training? They're just playing paintball. I call it LARPing. Paintball is a game of using a device to launch a projectile to hit another human. Are you saying we dictate how people should play the game of paintball?

Agreed. People, not just governments want to dictate what others can do. After all government is just made up of people. I play a lot of scenario games and while I don't get all tactical with it a lot of guys do. That is what is fun for them. Who am I to tell them to buy a red flashy jersey and a teal gun to play in the woods? I certainly won't just to make someone else feel good.

Milsim is huge in Europe. Check out siloproductions on ytube. Those guys are having fun. Are we saying they shouldn't be allowed to play the game they enjoy? Because we disagree with it

[Blue Air Tech]

I believe paintball as a community has been moving in the right direction, making paintball paintball. To expand on this how many times have you:

1. Corrected a new player at a field that a longer barrel doesn't increase range.

2. Explained why we don't use red fill paint.

3. Informed that scopes and lasers don't really help as round ball doesn't fly all that straight.

4. Told someone they don't need that bi-pod because what recoil/kick?

5. Advised a player to take off his motorcycle armor as it make them easier to eliminate.

6. Explained that you do not need camo for clothing as engagement distances in paintball are close.

7. Yelled till you lost your voice "Mask Down" to an opponent.

8. Crucified a player for not having a barrel bag on in the pits.

I can go on and on, but all my examples are apposed to traditional tactical thinking. We have grown as a community, we recognize paintball is not tactical training, it isn't war simulation. It is what it just is, PAINTBALL. We made it our own, we have our own masks, we have our own specific protective clothing, safety measures, universal rules. The community took it from running around in the woods with shop goggles to standardized events with sponsored teams and live broadcasting.

We grew up, just like the UFC did, we didn't want to be looked at as thugs chasing violence, we turned a hobby into a sport. And it is about time Airsoft did the same. They are too busy trying to be something else, and unfortunately that something else the government and the general population doesn't understand so they fear it.

[[insert funny name]]

A lawyer could argue even the speedball guns look like certain SMGs. A lawyer that knows nothing about paintball could say a LV1 looks like a KRISS Vector. of course we all know it looks nothing alike, you have to consider that we are talking about prosecutors that really don't know much about the sport and will try to enforce the law to the extreme interpretation of the language that is used in this bill. I think this bill could affect speedballers and not just the MILSIM community. In all reality the probability of this happening is slim but these new laws always start out small then gradually gain more and more power as the courts decide what is considered a real gun look-a-like.