[TheBroz]

I love the 170R and preferred it to my Shocker XLS but consider my M170R frame weaker than my Shocker CVO. I’m looking forward to getting my hands on an AMP CC and seeing how it performs. I have no loyalty to either company, there’s certain things each do better than the other.

It seems they are extremely similar shooters, I don’t give much of a damn about any alleged IP shenanigans. The question still stands, why wasn’t the Gamma Core, the lynchpin of PE’s range covered by a patent?

[hscpaintballa]

Originally Posted by TheBroz

I love the 170R and preferred it to my Shocker XLS but consider my M170R frame weaker than my Shocker CVO. I’m looking forward to getting my hands on an AMP CC and seeing how it performs. I have no loyalty to either company, there’s certain things each do better than the other.

It seems they are extremely similar shooters, I don’t give much of a damn about any alleged IP shenanigans. The question still stands, why wasn’t the Gamma Core, the lynchpin of PE’s range covered by a patent?

One word.... cost

[Ford]

Originally Posted by bunkeru2k

Gamma core is still just a refinement to a spool valve that they all "stole" from AGD.

What in the world are we even talking about? https://www.automags.org/forums/show...postid=1861475

If the Amp entices you for the ergos or looks or trigger... whatever... That's fine. Get the marker that's right for you.

Your investment can rest assured no other major innovations will come to the core until PE comes out with something better. =P

[Rob.Phifer]

Originally Posted by TheBroz

The question still stands, why wasn’t the Gamma Core, the lynchpin of PE’s range covered by a patent?

That is not much of a question at all, they simply don't have the money to enforce the patent in court.

It doesn't in any way lend credibility to Dlx/SP/etc, it merely shows how predatory paintball is as an industry and why it has never successfully grown larger.

It eats its own.

[Rob.Phifer]

Originally Posted by Paul77

there is no theft.

but if you want to play at that game, all pb is theft of a nelspot.

Bit of a straw man argument don't you think?

[Rob.Phifer]

Originally Posted by bunkeru2k

Gamma core is still just a refinement to a spool valve that they all "stole" from AGD.

The Automag is not a spool valve.

[tweeter4]

Originally Posted by TheBroz

I love the 170R and preferred it to my Shocker XLS but consider my M170R frame weaker than my Shocker CVO. I’m looking forward to getting my hands on an AMP CC and seeing how it performs. I have no loyalty to either company, there’s certain things each do better than the other.

It seems they are extremely similar shooters, I don’t give much of a damn about any alleged IP shenanigans. The question still stands, why wasn’t the Gamma Core, the lynchpin of PE’s range covered by a patent?

With companies in paintball like the GOG parent company and GI, a patent only gives small and mid size companies the right of going bankrupt in court. They offer no real protection when all that matters in litigation is who can outlast in court.

[Paul77]

Originally Posted by tweeter4

With companies in paintball like the GOG parent company and GI, a patent only gives small and mid size companies the right of going bankrupt in court. They offer no real protection when all that matters in litigation is who can outlast in court.

So is the underlying problem here the American legal system? and capitalism?
Should all knowledge be open source and fair use?

[PBSales]

Originally Posted by Paul77

So is the underlying problem here the American legal system? and capitalism?
Should all knowledge be open source and fair use?

No the underlying problem is.... some people are just dirtbags. Most people don't need a politician or lawyer to tell them what is right from wrong. They just know.

If you could take something that wasn't yours because you knew you could get away with it.... would you? That is what you are defending.

Were you around in the 90's when KAPP, Redz, Extreme Rage and other companies would design parts and 32 degrees would instantly copy those parts and sell them cheaper thru National Paintball Supply? Where are those companies now?

[Oc_rage]

Originally Posted by James Graley

It won't be wider. We only made ours wider to accommodate the timer (which we changed how it mounts in next gen Luxe so its same width on that one)

Bummer. I was actually super surprised when I held Cory from Thunders Shocker. It was the mech frame but it actually felt really good in the hands unlike the XLS which felt very thin to me.

[Noa Bo]

Originally Posted by Oc_rage

Bummer. I was actually super surprised when I held Cory from Thunders Shocker. It was the mech frame but it actually felt really good in the hands unlike the XLS which felt very thin to me.

I think it’s the rubber grips that impresses you more and not so much the frame. When I got my Gog eNMEy about five years ago it came with those same grips and I was immediately impressed back then, and to this day they are the best feeling grips. Using my M170R for almost a whole year and I thought it was super comfortable until I got my CVO. It wasn’t immediately obvious but after a while I started using the CVO more, and now I use it almost exclusively ( for rec and woods ).

Btw off Topic or back on topic... I got my AMP last night and I think the majority of owners are going to agree that the new grips feel amazing. Reminds me of a hybrid of Luxe Ice grips with those Gog eNMEy grips. Feel s a hundred times better then the XLS grips.

[mclothier]

not sure if anyone cares anymore...but these guns are the same price now.

just picked up a pewter/black amp - what a difference from my SFT and NXT from back in the day. SP (in all of their various forms) has produced some great guns over the years, and seeing as how i still have my SFT and NXT, the amp was a logical choice for me.

foregrip on 170r reminds me of a tippman A5 for some reason

[mclothier]

Also worth noting that not a single retailer has the 170R in stock. Also judging by the posts in the Gtek thread, lots of solenoid leaks...

Looks like the Amp isn’t so bad after all?

[tweeter4]

Originally Posted by mclothier

Also worth noting that not a single retailer has the 170R in stock. Also judging by the posts in the Gtek thread, lots of solenoid leaks...

Looks like the Amp isn’t so bad after all?

A) The 170R is never in stock because it literally sells out the second they make stock available.

B) You cant judge posts on here for how solid a gun is. People post here to get help with problems. How many people are making posts just to say "I love the gun!"

C) Their fix to the problem shredding paint is only a bandaid, and I really hope they come up with something better

[MoNoFx]

never seen a single problem with the 170r's. Sounds like someone needs to check their own bias.

[mclothier]

Originally Posted by MoNoFx

never seen a single problem with the 170r's. Sounds like someone needs to check their own bias.

I lead with my bias, i am a smart parts fan from the beginning. I’ve owned other markers and thats all part of the fun. To answer the guy above you, I, I’m on here posting about how nice the gun is, so I realize posts are not the entire story but of each of the post I did read all point to similar issue, then I can be too off base in saying that every gun has its pros and cons.

At the moment, for the last 2 months the 170r has been out of stock at all retailers - secondly the only colors I see posted are black or woodland camo, despite the usual PE rainbow of offerings which leads me to believe that whether or not it’s popular, it’s hard to sing praises to a gun that hardly exists en masse.

Honestly all of these guns are great compared to the spider se I started with as a kid. And if we all had hours to spend on here I’d argue most poppet valve guns copied the impulse and other stacked tube markers of the day. PE was but a custom shop at the time.

I had this gun on my shortlist when I was looking to upgrade from my herd of shocker sft/nxt, but it’s lack of availability made the decision easier.

[martix_agent]

Originally Posted by mclothier

I lead with my bias, i am a smart parts fan from the beginning. I’ve owned other markers and thats all part of the fun. To answer the guy above you, I, I’m on here posting about how nice the gun is, so I realize posts are not the entire story but of each of the post I did read all point to similar issue, then I can be too off base in saying that every gun has its pros and cons.

At the moment, for the last 2 months the 170r has been out of stock at all retailers - secondly the only colors I see posted are black or woodland camo, despite the usual PE rainbow of offerings which leads me to believe that whether or not it’s popular, it’s hard to sing praises to a gun that hardly exists en masse.

Honestly all of these guns are great compared to the spider se I started with as a kid. And if we all had hours to spend on here I’d argue most poppet valve guns copied the impulse and other stacked tube markers of the day. PE was but a custom shop at the time.

I had this gun on my shortlist when I was looking to upgrade from my herd of shocker sft/nxt, but it’s lack of availability made the decision easier.

I'm sure that the SP gun are perfectly fine,
but you think that the 170r is not the better gun because it sells out the second they have more for sale, and because they only have "dull" color schemes for it?
Planet eclipse may not be making lots of them recently due to covid, and obviously lots of people want them because they sell out. Your reasoning for it being a not good gun isn't very solid.

[mclothier]

I’m not arguing one is better than the other performance wise, I’m only saying it’s hard to say anything when one barely exists. Also to your own point, how can you base the caliber of a gun based on its popularity? Popularity alone just means a lot of people got played and drank the PE koolaid that’s been served on this forum for the last decade.

I’m not trying to stir the pot or say my gun is better than yours, I was simply sharing my recent observations. I’m sure the 170r is a fine gun. So is my CCM’d shocker SFT.

[mclothier]

Also the top 5 posts in the gtek forum are all solenoid based leaks behind the trigger. That sounds like a gun issue, not user error...

[AndrewTheWookie]

Originally Posted by mclothier

Also the top 5 posts in the gtek forum are all solenoid based leaks behind the trigger. That sounds like a gun issue, not user error...

[Big Slime]

Shocker AMP is the best marker on the market so far in 2021.

best price
best shot
best air efficiency
best looking
best feeling
and it makes all the cultist PE fan boy's foam at the mouth

win. win. win

winning all around. If you want the best marker on the market, the Shocker AMP is the best as of April 9th 2021.