[paintballer3]

Originally Posted by sellaric

Is the NXL doing blind layouts this year?

I believe so

[Skipdogg]

Geez, some woke Karen's in this thread for sure.

[Trevor the great]

Originally Posted by martix_agent

Here's an article from the Franklin Institute. I'll pull out the part that pertains to what you're saying, and put it in quotes. I'll bold the exact part you are arguing, as well.

Is the Franklin institute a valid source for information? I'd say so.
At this point, this is no longer open for discussion. You have a choice to decide that you've been misinformed, or that you don't believe in science. Either way, this discussion is closed.

Interesting how it doesn’t include “mask getting sucked into mouth during high intensity training.” Ya, I’ll believe my bodies response, not everything written and sponsored by google after April of 2020 during a HEAVILY POLITICIZED event. Oh, but here’s some peer reviewed data/articles from the Lancet and others, Well before the politicized pandemic, written from 2009-2019 saying most masks in general don’t work, and had “very little significance” in preventing cold or flu viruses.

Cowling, B. et al. (2010) “Face masks to prevent transmission of influenza virus: A systematic review,” Epidemiology and Infection, 138(4), 449-456.

Bin-Reza et al. (2012) “The use of masks and respirators to prevent transmission of influenza: a systematic review of the scientific evidence,” Influenza and Other Respiratory Viruses 6(4), 257–267.


Smith, J.D. et al. (2016) “Effectiveness of N95 respirators versus surgical masks in protecting health care workers from acute respiratory infection: a systematic review and meta-analysis,” CMAJ Mar 2016

Jacobs, J. L. et al. (2009) “Use of surgical face masks to reduce the incidence of the common cold among health care workers in Japan: A randomized controlled trial,” American Journal of Infection Control, Volume 37, Issue 5, 417–419.

Long, Y. et al. (2020) “Effectiveness of N95 respirators versus surgical masks against influenza: A systematic review and meta-analysis,” J Evid Based Med. 2020; 1–9. (January 2020)

“Covid-19 infections commonly occur via aerosolized particles not just droplets. Masks and air filters can remove very small particles, such as bacteria and viruses but a single coronavirus particle size ranges from 70–90 nm. This is one hundred times smaller than a tenth of a micron.”

You’re more then welcome to send me peer reviewed studies proving otherwise, but quite frankly I’m not going to look at anything that was written after March of 2020. We have the highest rates of masks worms, and the most horrendous infection numbers. Doesn’t sound like masks are working too well.

[paintballer3]

Originally Posted by Trevor the great

Interesting how it doesn’t include “mask getting sucked into mouth during high intensity training.” Ya, I’ll believe my bodies response, not everything written and sponsored by google after April of 2020 during a HEAVILY POLITICIZED event. Oh, but here’s some peer reviewed data/articles from the Lancet and others, Well before the politicized pandemic, written from 2009-2019 saying most masks in general don’t work, and had “very little significance” in preventing cold or flu viruses.

Cowling, B. et al. (2010) “Face masks to prevent transmission of influenza virus: A systematic review,” Epidemiology and Infection, 138(4), 449-456.

Bin-Reza et al. (2012) “The use of masks and respirators to prevent transmission of influenza: a systematic review of the scientific evidence,” Influenza and Other Respiratory Viruses 6(4), 257–267.


Smith, J.D. et al. (2016) “Effectiveness of N95 respirators versus surgical masks in protecting health care workers from acute respiratory infection: a systematic review and meta-analysis,” CMAJ Mar 2016

Jacobs, J. L. et al. (2009) “Use of surgical face masks to reduce the incidence of the common cold among health care workers in Japan: A randomized controlled trial,” American Journal of Infection Control, Volume 37, Issue 5, 417–419.

Long, Y. et al. (2020) “Effectiveness of N95 respirators versus surgical masks against influenza: A systematic review and meta-analysis,” J Evid Based Med. 2020; 1–9. (January 2020)

“Covid-19 infections commonly occur via aerosolized particles not just droplets. Masks and air filters can remove very small particles, such as bacteria and viruses but a single coronavirus particle size ranges from 70–90 nm. This is one hundred times smaller than a tenth of a micron.”

You’re more then welcome to send me peer reviewed studies proving otherwise, but quite frankly I’m not going to look at anything that was written after March of 2020. We have the highest rates of masks worms, and the most horrendous infection numbers. Doesn’t sound like masks are working too well.

Dude just stop. It is sad now. We have moved onto the NXL and if they are doing blind layouts.

[AliasDave05]

What are the pro's and con's of blind layouts?

[pyrothug434]

Originally Posted by AliasDave05

What are the pro's and con's of blind layouts?

Pro-
Less bounce shots
Even opportunity regardless of financial situation( teams who can afford to practice the layout 2-4 times a week leading up to events vs teams who can only practice once a week)

Cons-
Can't practice on the field layout
Less time to figure out plays
Less time to figure out lanes off break

[nichonitro]

Originally Posted by pyrothug434

Pro-
Less bounce shots
Even opportunity regardless of financial situation( teams who can afford to practice the layout 2-4 times a week leading up to events vs teams who can only practice once a week)

Cons-
Can't practice on the field layout
Less time to figure out plays
Less time to figure out lanes off break

I can't stand the "can't afford to practice" point people try to make.

If you are playing at a national level and you can't afford to practice the weeks leading up to the event what are you even doing? showing up for fun? then a blind layout wont help or hurt you... you were never in the running.

[tweeter4]

Originally Posted by nichonitro

I can't stand the "can't afford to practice" point people try to make.

If you are playing at a national level and you can't afford to practice the weeks leading up to the event what are you even doing? showing up for fun? then a blind layout wont help or hurt you... you were never in the running.

He clearly was referring to the pro teams that practice 6-8 days over two weeks with access to unlimited paint on these layouts. Hell, there are even divisional teams now shooting 120-150 cases on doubles the two weeks prior to the event now. That is just not realistic for 95% of the teams out there

[martix_agent]

Originally Posted by pyrothug434

Pro-
Less bounce shots
Even opportunity regardless of financial situation( teams who can afford to practice the layout 2-4 times a week leading up to events vs teams who can only practice once a week)

Cons-
Can't practice on the field layout
Less time to figure out plays
Less time to figure out lanes off break

All o your listed cons sound like a pro, if you ask me.

[viking002]

Blind layouts are so much more fun. There are no cons just work on your fundamentals and teamwork and that will help you win.

A team I can think of in the divisional ranks that took advantage of layouts being released was Paintball Fit. When we played them at 2019 Chicago in D3 they had bounce shots dowwwn and we had our home players catching pack hits and getting penalties almost every point.

Not to take away anything from them. Those guys work super hard and are amazing players, but that instance showed me we did not play the layout enough and probably could never match the amount of time that they spent on it.

[tweeter4]

Originally Posted by viking002

Blind layouts are so much more fun. There are no cons just work on your fundamentals and teamwork and that will help you win.

A team I can think of in the divisional ranks that took advantage of layouts being released was Paintball Fit. When we played them at 2019 Chicago in D3 they had bounce shots dowwwn and we had our home players catching pack hits and getting penalties almost every point.

Not to take away anything from them. Those guys work super hard and are amazing players, but that instance showed me we did not play the layout enough and probably could never match the amount of time that they spent on it.

Well when your Dad owns a paintball field and you get GI at wholesale price, you are going to be able to learn every possible shot on that field.

[Trum_15]

Originally Posted by viking002

A team I can think of in the divisional ranks that took advantage of layouts being released was Paintball Fit. When we played them at 2019 Chicago in D3 they had bounce shots dowwwn and we had our home players catching pack hits and getting penalties almost every point.

Not to take away anything from them. Those guys work super hard and are amazing players, but that instance showed me we did not play the layout enough and probably could never match the amount of time that they spent on it.

It not always about playing the layout. When i played NXL we would run points saturday for a couple hours, then take some time and a case or two of paint to find bounce shots and lanes. The points were nice to figure out key bunkers, but the time at the end of the day to figure out lanes, and bounce shots, were wayyy more useful.

i do agree blind layouts will be better, and should force teams to work on fundamentals more.

[soccerguy243]

Originally Posted by (dr)

It is. Making me wear a piece of cloth on my face that does nothing to protect anyone as a show of compliance is tyranny.

If they cared they would require medical grade. It's not about saving people either or they'd target things that kill more people per year than corona.

It's about control. That's it. And neither party you could vote for will save you.

GTFO with that junk.

1) it does protect others (you cover your sneezes or do you just sneeze into the open air?)
2) if you think this is control? I can do literally anything still with a mask on
3) if you think its is tyranny you need to get out and see some other countries and how they treat people. You want control an tyranny? Try countries that seize passports from workers.

[soccerguy243]

Originally Posted by Trevor the great

Can you imagine someone telling you that cloth masks prevent 0.12 micron particles from being infected exhaled or inhaled, but don’t reduce any oxygen flow or disrupt air intake? That just happened......seriously, it just happened. And then he says I’m just “trolling,” for pointing out the obvious conflicting dilemmas

wow. .12 micron particle is the size of the virus. The mask isn't filtering just the virus because the virus itself isn't what's floating around. The virus is carried BY BODILY FLUID. The moist mist that you sneeze or cough up gets caught in the mask and therefore the virus is stuck too.

You think a cloth mask would reduce oxygen flow? Then all those surgeons must be passing out when they use those eh? How about those people that put in fiberglass insulation that wear N95 masks. They must be passing out from lack of oxygen.

You don't even know you the numbers you quote actually mean! Gosh, read a book, please.

[soccerguy243]

Originally Posted by Trevor the great

.

lol. your sources you cite call for further study! Hmm when have we had further detailed study on the issue.

"There is some evidence to support the wearing of masks or respirators during illness to protect others, and public health emphasis on mask wearing during illness may help to reduce influenza virus transmission". "Further studies in controlled settings and studies of natural infections in healthcare and community settings are required"

You chose to use old data instead of realizing the value of further research. Furthermore you continue to cite INFLUENZA. Which is much less contagious. Therefore some protection is even more effective when a disease is highly contagious.

You probably think the center of the universe is still earth because of all the political ramifications of learning about the real heliocentric nature of the universe?

[soccerguy243]

Originally Posted by martix_agent

Here's an article from the Franklin Institute. I'll pull out the part that pertains to what you're saying, and put it in quotes. I'll bold the exact part you are arguing, as well.

Is the Franklin institute a valid source for information? I'd say so.
At this point, this is no longer open for discussion. You have a choice to decide that you've been misinformed, or that you don't believe in science. Either way, this discussion is closed.

Thank you for trying but Trevor won't look at anything recent even though his own cited works call for further research.

[Intern1]

One more con that i have heard is that if we have blind layouts then teams wont practice as much so fields wont make as much money. I have no idea if that is actually true, but the last couple times blind layouts have been brought up that topic always came up.

[PBSales]

Originally Posted by Intern1

One more con that i have heard is that if we have blind layouts then teams wont practice as much so fields wont make as much money. I have no idea if that is actually true, but the last couple times blind layouts have been brought up that topic always came up.

They will still practice. In the old NPPL days teams still organized practices against each other before events. If for some reason teams hate it the NXL can always change it next year.

[sellaric]

One thing that worries me on blind layouts is the pace of the game and the pace at which teams will "learn" the layout and the shots.

My only real concern is that at the start of the tournament teams will just pick a lets grab 11 pods and cross it up until we learn the layout. Then as the event moves on and we learn the layout we can start being more aggressive.

[martix_agent]

Originally Posted by sellaric

One thing that worries me on blind layouts is the pace of the game and the pace at which teams will "learn" the layout and the shots.

My only real concern is that at the start of the tournament teams will just pick a lets grab 11 pods and cross it up until we learn the layout. Then as the event moves on and we learn the layout we can start being more aggressive.

To me, this is part of paintball. How fast can you learn the layout?

[PBSales]

Originally Posted by martix_agent

To me, this is part of paintball. How fast can you learn the layout?

Imagine if they went back and you played 8 different fields. You wouldn't need to learn a layout. You just need to be a better paintball team than the other guys.