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Old 11-02-2020, 03:58 PM #1
BG_Knightmare
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
PE CF20 Finally to be released???

I've been seeing new videos popping up on youtube with the new CF20 mags, one from ANSgear and another from MCS. It seems like the CF20s are going to be dropping soon. ANSgear is showing late November, while MCS is showing mid December
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Old 11-03-2020, 12:09 AM #2
Scougar
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They are in production and heading to stores

The MCS CF20 video was a complete mess. You can clearly see in the first video, that the followers arms are not in the tracks, and it isn't wound fully. There is zero surprise that it jams. Somewhat amazing it didn't jam more. Just like the DAM mags, the arms guide the follower, and stop it from ejecting out the top of the mag. They also help facilitate the bolt stop feature.

The side door is intended for loading, that is the entire point of it coming off

I was out with some of the other guys testing the first 'prod-spec' batch this weekend.
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Old 11-05-2020, 07:40 PM #3
vijil
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Good to see there's something approaching progress on these!

I disappear from this site for a year, come back, and nothing has changed and almost none of the then "coming soon" products are out yet. Hard to believe just how stagnant paintball has become. I don't blame PE though. Richmond on the other hand...

I'll consider getting back into PB if magfed airball ever becomes a thing. PE should make that happen. The industry badly needs a reset away from the paint-volume business model from grassroots all the way to the pro level, and if that's not viable then I guess paintball will continue to dwindle. It's practically dead in NZ now.
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Old 11-18-2020, 12:27 AM #4
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I think more people would adopt magfed if there were 3 major developments on the magfed side.

1) the price of FSR needs to come down to earth, I can't confirm this but from my understanding, the profit margins on FSR are absolutely insane because of the patent monoply on it. The benefits to shooting FSR are obvious from an accuracy and precision standpoint, but the main barrier for most players is affordability.

3) More fields need to allow FSR to be used at their facilities. Now before I understood the desire to stay away from FSR because of insurance companies not honoring coverage due to the gray area of ANSI standards, but that issue is solved now and insurance companies are covering it now so this should be a non-issue so long as the field sells it. Now I get that the polystyrene shell doesnt degrade as quickly which leads me to my last point

3) The shell of the FSR needs more R&D to be more readily biodegradable so the remnants of the rounds don't litter the fields. I can understand why fields don't want these rounds shot on an airball field, the shell pieces can puncture the inflatable bunkers. That I think is a huge barrier to widespread field adoption.

In my opinion, First Strike is not doing themselves any good by just sitting on the patent and doing nothing to accelerate the adoption of their product. They could easily address the first 2 points by lowering the cost of the rounds then partnering with insurance companies who will cover fields that offer FSR and referring fields to those insurance companies. By doing that they could double or triple their sales of FSR within a couple years. The last point about R&D to make a better shell would be the hardest thing, but with how much they make off the FSR they probably have the budget, just not the will to do it.
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Old 11-18-2020, 11:41 AM #5
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BG, I think philosophically you're in the right direction, but a couple things to consider with your points.

1) Yea, the margin on FSRs seem stupid high. The cost is certainly a reason I don't have an interest in using them. The product has been out for 11 years, but I feel like only in the past 3 or 4 have they really started to take off. I imagine there's still a lot of the initial R&D cost they may be trying to pay off.

2) I think fields need more FSR friendly events, sure. I think some perspective has to be kept that not all players want to play with/against FSR. If a field's bread/butter is birthday parties and first timers adding FSR to the game may not be something those groups are interested in.

3) A more biodegradable shell is a great idea but mentally it feels acrobatic to invest in the R&D for that feature, at the same time try and bring down prices per unit... and I'd wager a bio-degradable shell would mean a shorter shelf life for the product overall. That's a lot of risk when you've already got a product selling.

I think a shorter term compromise would be building events that better cater to the pros you get from using FSR and FSR starting some kind of recycle program for the leftover shell.... x% off your next order when you send back a box of the plastics or whatever
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Old 11-18-2020, 04:30 PM #6
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A guy at our field that comes out regularly uses a TMC with a red dot and no FSR's. He plays against us shooting electrics and gets as many kills (usually more) than any of us. I wouldn't play against him if he was using FSR's. Neither would anyone else at the field, which consists mostly of parties and walk on players.

I know this won't be a popular opinion but here it goes...
I think the whole accuracy argument for using FSR's is only at long distance. Most fields aren't setup for that and frankly, if I get hit and out at the start, the fun is not there. I want to get closer and battle it out. In a normal situation I can be pretty accurate shooting a normal paintball. Sure, if it is all FSR's and the game is set in a large area that might work but I think FSR hurts scenario paintball much the way electros did rec in the early 2000's. If everyone is a sniper shooting halfway across the field (or more) while hiding in a building, the fun isn't there. Where magfed becomes fun and challenging is in CQB scenarios. But round ball works great for that.

I recently played airsoft for the first time (with real guns and players that do that all the time) as the "snipers" hid in the back taking people out and that wasn't fun but the guys in the buildings battling out close range seemed to have the most fun. That's how I feel FSR players are. They are like the snipers wanting to be far away from battle. I get real steel shooters in a war doing that but this is a sport. Let's not take the sport out of it.

If you want to snipe go play airsoft. They are more accurate and the guns shoot more like a real gun would as far as distance and accuracy. Otherwise play paintball and decide if you want to pump each shot, change mags or carry gallons of paint and shoot lanes at a normal distance (which I wish they would limit the amount of paint allowed on the field per player in rec play or non-tournament play). /rant

BTW - in airsoft the snipers didn't like me shooting full auto (no one told me I couldn't at first) or me sneaking around and shooting them all in the back or side but that's because they only want to shoot people and never get hit back. What fun is that?
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Old 11-21-2020, 05:04 PM #7
Scougar
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FSR isn't about accuracy and range, it's about CONSISTENCY. Clearly you have never been to a magfed game. We are duking it out point blank with FSR and renting helicopters to shoot down on people lol. (Zero Hour NY). They idea that FSR players want to be 'far away' is a complete myth. yes some snipe, just like you get people trying to snipe in regular paintball.

FSR don't get crushed in magazines, they aren't affected by weather, and with limited shots. Crush plus getting a bad bag of paint (at least 50% of the time), means a bad day for magfed.

FSR only hurt as much as recball. They idea that it hurts more is down to speedballers using brittle paint which hurts less than recball, then getting hit with an FSR. Do a test with recball then tournament brittle paint, you'll see what I mean.

Being blunt: Magfed isn't concerned what other styles of play think. If you wanna try it... awesome, come have a blast. I'd rather be shot with a couple of shots, than a rope of recball.
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Old Yesterday, 10:11 AM #8
BG_Knightmare
 
 
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I have to agree with Scougar, getting hit from FSR isn't any worse than getting hit from a regular paintball. If anything there is less energy behind a hit from FSR because because the round itself has less mass to it than a regular paintball. I think people are just afraid of them because it's still relatively new and exotic even though they've been around for a decade, more field adoption could help dispel that myth of "FSR hurts more".

The difference which I agree and Scougar mentioned is that the shell is stronger than tournament brittle paint so really a FSR hit would be comparable to getting hit with thick shelled low grade recball paint.

The range increase you get from FSR is real but we're not talking a huge real increase in range. Some people claim 150yds which I think is ridiculous, I mean think about that, that distance is 1.5 full length football fields. If that capability is real then I want to see some proof they weren't cranking up the velocity above 300fps.

Because all pb fields limit velocity usually somewhere between 275-285fps the range of the FSR would be comparable to regular paintballs. The fins on the FSR help the round spin in order to maintain velocity over a longer distance which does help increase range but to say the fins will give it a significantly greater range and ability to shoot a distance of 1.5 football fields is really a massive over hype.
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Old Yesterday, 05:51 PM #9
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If you get shot point blank with recball paint, and point blank with FSR it's the same. The only meaningful difference is that that FSR carry their speed for longer so at range it might 'hurt more' as it kept the speed compared to paint.

There has been a ballistic test done to prove this, and therefore throws hard evidence at insurance companies that try to upsell additional cost to sites.

250,000 FSR shot at just one game. Not one person was injured from FSR.

My wife used here 'sniper' setup the other day, and shot from close range (10 metres) 3 shots. She took out 3 people. I highly doubt regular woodsball person is going to shoot only 1 shot. (I bought her sniper set up because she has Fibromyalgia, and suffers from extreme pain. She still wants to play).

If you ever want to play a pure magfed game, let me know! I will get you setup with a decent game wherever you are
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