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View Poll Results: Would you buy a new Cyborg?
Yes 81 87.10%
No 12 12.90%
Voters: 93. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-19-2020, 06:33 AM #64
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Even with user input it's not a guaranteed success. Success comes with the quality of the product and the customer service behind it.

I think if they made a good poppet, it will sell. I'm in the Facebook groups and people never shut up about wanting an lv2.

I say fill that void. Make something that puts the lv.x series to shame, and you'll make money hand over fist.

Give me a poppet that shoots smoother than my lv1 and I'll buy it.
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Old 02-19-2020, 10:45 AM #65
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This is on my mind. Hear me out while I think outloud. I'd like some input on a Cyborg with the following characteristics:

1) XTS frame (and ASA/electronics), rear grip and foregrip - I'm a fan of these and think they'd suit a poppet nicely.

2) LPR - housed in a cylinder under the foregrip in a fashion similar to the C6. I think this will be necessary, given the market's demand for shot quality, plus I'm not sure MacDev has a solenoid that can reliably handle 150+ psi.

3) No more ram/valve cartridge - I did like this feature in the RX/C6, but it undoubtedly increases the height/width of the body. If MacDev moves to a rammer that utilizes the body as the sleeve (think LV1, G6R), they can reduce the height and width of the body, which I think is a fair compromise. Since their valves/cupseals are so reliable and never leak, that valve doesn't necessarily need to be accessible with no tools. Given that the body/frame will still have no wires between them, it wouldn't be hard to access if needed.

4) Simplified routing - no more separate subplate between the body/frame, so complexity and size can be reduced. With that said, I'm still trying to determine routing from the frame to the LPR/valve chamber and back to the solenoid without the use of a subplate. Possibly a full length frame that houses the passages.

5) Shot quality and efficiency of the 06/07 models - in my opinion, these shoot great even by today's standards and could pull almost a case from a 68. Using today's standard 77, crappy fills and big games/scenarios will not be an issue.

I'm liking this blueprint for the next Cyborg. How do others feel about it?
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Old 02-20-2020, 01:02 AM #66
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1. Cant comment on the XTS comparison, but as a Prime owner, I think this would be great as the ergonomics are great.

3. ANYTHING that could make the height and width of the cyborg decrease would be great. My main gripe of the older cyborgs were how tall and bulky they felt. Tool-less doesn't mean much to me as long as its not too many steps to pull the rammer out to re-grease.

4. The subplate leaks on the older markers were a pain in the rear to mess with, but hopefully that wasn't as common with the more recent generations. Anything to simplify would be great.

5. The 06/07 models were the last cyborgs I've owned and the shot quality/efficiency on those were top notch so anything to bring it back to that would be great.

Should nothing else change, slimmer and slightly shorter profile that brings it comparable to the G6R would be the biggest selling point to someone like me.

I know I speak in layman's terms, but that's because I am a commoner.
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Old 02-20-2020, 02:46 AM #67
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Damn I said “great” too many times but I’m exhausted so F-it.
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Old 02-20-2020, 08:04 AM #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallinher0 View Post
1. Cant comment on the XTS comparison, but as a Prime owner, I think this would be great as the ergonomics are great.

3. ANYTHING that could make the height and width of the cyborg decrease would be great. My main gripe of the older cyborgs were how tall and bulky they felt. Tool-less doesn't mean much to me as long as its not too many steps to pull the rammer out to re-grease.

4. The subplate leaks on the older markers were a pain in the rear to mess with, but hopefully that wasn't as common with the more recent generations. Anything to simplify would be great.

5. The 06/07 models were the last cyborgs I've owned and the shot quality/efficiency on those were top notch so anything to bring it back to that would be great.

Should nothing else change, slimmer and slightly shorter profile that brings it comparable to the G6R would be the biggest selling point to someone like me.

I know I speak in layman's terms, but that's because I am a commoner.
Nope, that's great feedback. Thanks Ken.
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Old 02-21-2020, 07:19 PM #69
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I'm not sure I have much to offer.

1. I wold like to see a smaller, tighter package. While there will be a certain requirement of height due to the stacked tube, I think there is some room to shrink the overall package a little.
2. I loved the electronics of the C6 and the ability to read pressures without a separate pressure tester. I would like to see (as I'm sure MacDev too) these transducers be more reliable and longer lived.
3. The C7 will need to be competitive to the LV in shot quality and efficiency. I would love to see G6r efficiency, but I would be willing to sacrifice some efficiency for shot quality. Achieve this with a hose-less design and you may have something.
4. A fully adjustable LPR. While users can get themselves in trouble, the pressure transducers should prevent issues running the LPR too low. Give those of us who are savvy adjust the shot to suit our tastes.

Something along the lines of the aforementioned requests would be a stacked tube I would be very interested in.
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Old 02-21-2020, 08:01 PM #70
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I agree with all of the above suggestions.

They should make it smaller, basically as close to single tube as possible.

I’d also like to see the Transducers again, which I thought were fixed?

Perhaps a Balanced Poppet Valve?

Definitely the LPR/HPR setup from the C6.
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Old 02-23-2020, 05:09 PM #71
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Part of what I like about the cyborg line.. including the 6 is the size, it feels solid. I truly feel the biggest gripe and reason for the drop off of sales with the 6 was the transducer board failure rate. On multiple occasions macdev said they had a solution, I would purchase a board and a few months later it would fail. To this day I still own a c6 ( as well as an 07) because I love the shoot and feel in the hands. I think if they reverted back to the 06/07 internals, xts grip/foregrip/ electronics/asa/feedneck and ensure they get the transducer board issues addressed it would be a hit.
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Old 02-24-2020, 10:25 PM #72
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I don't think the transducers are worth it if they increase the price by a reasonable amount. I think the sweet spot for the price should be around $800. It shouldn't directly compete with the XTS or any high end marker.

Also might be an unpopular opinion but there should be no LPR and if there is, it shouldn't be adjustable. And again the bolt should be closed similar to the RX.

Anytime you mention macdev or ask someone's opinion they worry about reliability. Why not make the next cyborg literally bulletproof with less electronics and less points of failure at a reasonable and popular price point. Only thing that I'd worry about taking this approach is shot quality. Not sure what poppet designs can be used without an LPR that can rival a LV1...I'd say like a torque but it's not a poppet...and I don't think macdev taking the smart parts approach is the way to go...
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Old 02-25-2020, 08:31 AM #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Papa Pink View Post
I'm not sure I have much to offer.

1. I wold like to see a smaller, tighter package. While there will be a certain requirement of height due to the stacked tube, I think there is some room to shrink the overall package a little.
2. I loved the electronics of the C6 and the ability to read pressures without a separate pressure tester. I would like to see (as I'm sure MacDev too) these transducers be more reliable and longer lived.
3. The C7 will need to be competitive to the LV in shot quality and efficiency. I would love to see G6r efficiency, but I would be willing to sacrifice some efficiency for shot quality. Achieve this with a hose-less design and you may have something.
4. A fully adjustable LPR. While users can get themselves in trouble, the pressure transducers should prevent issues running the LPR too low. Give those of us who are savvy adjust the shot to suit our tastes.

Something along the lines of the aforementioned requests would be a stacked tube I would be very interested in.
1) There is definitely room to reduce height. Ditching the subplates (and thus, transducer capability) would reduce body height by about 4mm.

2) You can kiss the transducers goodbye, methinks. MacDev will target simplicity and reliability with the next Cyborg. Transducers are a cool "feature" but unnecessary. And, they ultimately cost you size and complexity. I foresee MacDev potentially limiting the regulator adjustment windows and going the "X turns for Y psi" approach.

3) MacDev had shot quality and incredible efficiency figured out in 2006. I shot my 06 and 07 Cyborgs along with one of my G6R's (got all tuned in for an upcoming scenario) over the weekend back to back to back. The 06/07 Cyborgs shoot incredibly well and can hang with an LV or G6R all day in that category. They are also capable of shooting about 2000 balls from a full 68. Copy those characteristics over to the new marker and you're set.

4) I'm torn on this topic. Realistically, the operating window of an LPR-equipped marker is pretty small, especially if you want to tune for efficiency and reliability. The "magic number" for just about everything I have the ability to gauge is 70 psi. Once you start to drop down to 60ish psi, they become more susceptible to cold temps, become a little less consistent, and aside from an ever so slightly "softer" shot, there's nothing to gain. This is my generally my target for my Cyborgs, G6R's, Victories, and Vikings. My late model Angels can operate a bit lower because they have larger sail areas (I set them to about 60 psi). LV1's actually prefer closer to 80 psi. Personally, I view the LPR in a "set and forget" approach instead of a tool to tune, probably because once I'm on the field I couldn't care less about having the smoothest possible shot - but I do care about reliability, consistency and efficiency.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Charlie View Post
I agree with all of the above suggestions.

They should make it smaller, basically as close to single tube as possible.

Id also like to see the Transducers again, which I thought were fixed?

Perhaps a Balanced Poppet Valve?

Definitely the LPR/HPR setup from the C6.
Do you want a low height or transducers? Pick one.

If they ditch the valve cartridge and affix the valve to the body again, they could go balanced. I've always liked the JT Impulse valve design, myself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KronicCocker View Post
Part of what I like about the cyborg line.. including the 6 is the size, it feels solid. I truly feel the biggest gripe and reason for the drop off of sales with the 6 was the transducer board failure rate. On multiple occasions macdev said they had a solution, I would purchase a board and a few months later it would fail. To this day I still own a c6 ( as well as an 07) because I love the shoot and feel in the hands. I think if they reverted back to the 06/07 internals, xts grip/foregrip/ electronics/asa/feedneck and ensure they get the transducer board issues addressed it would be a hit.
I'm with you, except obviously I'd like to see the transducers go bye bye.
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Originally Posted by SlaveAway View Post
I don't think the transducers are worth it if they increase the price by a reasonable amount. I think the sweet spot for the price should be around $800. It shouldn't directly compete with the XTS or any high end marker.

Also might be an unpopular opinion but there should be no LPR and if there is, it shouldn't be adjustable. And again the bolt should be closed similar to the RX.

Anytime you mention macdev or ask someone's opinion they worry about reliability. Why not make the next cyborg literally bulletproof with less electronics and less points of failure at a reasonable and popular price point. Only thing that I'd worry about taking this approach is shot quality. Not sure what poppet designs can be used without an LPR that can rival a LV1...I'd say like a torque but it's not a poppet...and I don't think macdev taking the smart parts approach is the way to go...
I don't think you'll see them ditch the LPR, even though the routing simplicity is really enticing. The challenges presented with no LPR are then:

How do we retain the shot quality we want?

Cycling dynamics are now tied to valve pressure

How do we reduce the pressure to the solenoid?

$800 seems awfully low. I think $1000-1100 is the right ballpark for a new high end poppet, providing that they are able to utilize some existing parts and tooling. New parts/designs and tooling costs a big chunk of change.

Awesome discussion. Keep it up.
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Old 02-25-2020, 10:42 AM #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imped4now View Post

$800 seems awfully low. I think $1000-1100 is the right ballpark for a new high end poppet, providing that they are able to utilize some existing parts and tooling. New parts/designs and tooling costs a big chunk of change.

Awesome discussion. Keep it up.
Thinking about the LV1.6 price point $1000-1100 would definitely be fair. I keep mashing together shot quality and sound signature. I shot a DP Fusion FX and Ego 7 for a full summer each and I honestly think poppet shot quality is fine. It's mostly the sound signature that changes my perception of the shot. At least that's what it feels like. If it was a balanced poppet like the JT Impulse I'd have no complaints mine shot great. But I'm still against an adjustable LPR. Maybe some sort of flow restriction and a higher dwell could lower the acoustics?

Last edited by SlaveAway : 02-25-2020 at 10:49 AM. Reason: removed some use of honestly, because honestly I use honestly way to much.
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Old 02-25-2020, 11:53 AM #75
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Quote:
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Thinking about the LV1.6 price point $1000-1100 would definitely be fair. I keep mashing together shot quality and sound signature. I shot a DP Fusion FX and Ego 7 for a full summer each and I honestly think poppet shot quality is fine. It's mostly the sound signature that changes my perception of the shot. At least that's what it feels like. If it was a balanced poppet like the JT Impulse I'd have no complaints mine shot great. But I'm still against an adjustable LPR. Maybe some sort of flow restriction and a higher dwell could lower the acoustics?
If you've got an LPR, you've got to have *some* adjustment range, even if it's minimal. The LV LPR only gives a range from about 60-90 psi. MacDev could do the same thing and it would work just fine.

Other than a pressure regulator, I can't think of another method to reduce the pressure from the HPR ahead of the solenoid while giving some sort of adjustment, as well. Adjustable dwell isn't a good sole option since it won't do the same thing.

You either go no LPR, feed the solenoid HPR pressure and drop down to a 009 or 010 ram seal or you go with an LPR. I do believe they'll lean toward the latter.
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Old 06-21-2020, 03:54 AM #76
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Okay, I’m fairly new, and the things I say may make no sense, but I’ll express them nonetheless.

Off the get-go starting out with paintball, I started with a Tippmann 98. It had some heft, and kicked like nothing else, but it was satisfying. I soon got an Etha 2, which has survived my clumsy ***, so it gets props.

But today and yesterday I’ve played a handful of bushball games and shot everything from a Luxe X to an Enmey, and my Cyborg 6 felt the best. Why? Because the shots felt like they did something (even though I didn’t)

When I shot the Luxe, it was smooth, but it didn’t feel like it had any substance. Like, you know you shot it, and you can see it flying but it didn’t feel like a shot that had weight, had an impact on something. I shot a CS1, it felt like it had too much too it, like I could feel the motions happening as they went, and it made the shot feel broken and staged. The Borg, though, felt and sounded like it was winning. Every shot had enough kick to let me know it was going to go somewhere, do something, but not enough to throw me off. It sounded distinct, but not overpoweringly loud. I want that sort of fun, if you make a new one.
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Old 11-04-2020, 04:08 AM #77
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I just got back into paintball this year and the first marker i set out to find was a cyborg rx. I was extremely lucky to find a vampire (silver with red accent) RX. People who own these guns rarely sell them. I would absolutely buy a new cyborg from macdev. I say keep the Closed bolt design from the rx, and a hoseless design would look amazing.
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Old 11-04-2020, 11:57 AM #78
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I just got back into paintball this year and the first marker i set out to find was a cyborg rx. I was extremely lucky to find a vampire (silver with red accent) RX. People who own these guns rarely sell them. I would absolutely buy a new cyborg from macdev. I say keep the Closed bolt design from the rx, and a hoseless design would look amazing.
From an RX fan, you're absolutely right - we don't like to let them go.

And I can tell you this - don't expect the bolt enclosure to make a return.

The RX will continue to be a rarity in the world of poppets.
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Old 11-18-2020, 10:08 PM #79
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sorry guys, i'm still on hiatus for now, but, in about 8 more years, i'll buy another one to play alongside my kids. when that happens, at that point, name. your. ****ing. price. I look forward to the future of MacDev's Cyborg.
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