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Old 07-06-2021, 02:49 PM #22
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I miss the days of the large standalone tournaments like SkyBall and IAO.
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Old 07-06-2021, 03:28 PM #23
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Originally Posted by (dr) View Post
As it stands I've seen zero advertising for the event, even within paintball. That's an obvious starting point and with the name of the event not sounding like it has anything to do with paintball, I wonder how that will be approached.

Hopefully there will be some time of advertising that will hit the target market or we can't really expect anyone besides "us" to even know about it, much less watch it.

You can't just stream it for free and expect people to care.

Like Matty has said over and over. People come for the story and stay to watch stars play. There is very little storyline that's been created for the lower level teams and even less star power to draw in viewers.

It will be interesting to see what astra does to get around this.
For clarity/transparency - ProPaintball.com is not financially invested in this event. We have however talked to the guys putting it on and are supporting them as much as we can. That said, there are some areas folks have legitimate questions on and we will try to answer when possible.

The big misconception is that Astra, or anyone that hosts an event, needs to compete with the NXL. The NXL is its own "thing". Others can host events, just like the old days of Paintball, and they can be successful. If someone wants to start a rival national series (NPPL vs PSP, etc.) then we can absolutely compare them. But until then, lets just focus on whats actually happening here.

1) We just announced the event. Your reading it here on PBN, on ProPaintball, and its surely percolating on various social media channels. Everything you are hearing about is taking place in real time. It is important to keep in mind this is not a business entity that has been around for a decade recycling the same song and dance. This is a group of pro paintball players trying to put on a great event for other paintball players. From what we are hearing, the event is nearly sold out. That should tell you the reception is very positive from those invited.

2) The invited teams (who are competing) are the intended audience. Everything else is secondary.

3) Contrary to various opinions, you can stream content for free and expect people to care. People do it all the time. Two examples are Youtube [#2 ranked website in the world] and Twitch [#25 ranked website in the world].

Here is an example for you.. Yosh Designz had a paintball video on facebook that hit 1 million views. Now compare that to the (rumored) 10,000 people who tune in for GoSports pay-per-view for the recent MAO event. Between GoSports and Youtube/Facebook/Twitch, which of those has a more effective reach for paintball? Which of the platforms (Go Sports vs any of the rest) shows paintball to more prospective players?

If you were an outside sponsor, who would you rather talk to? The same 10,000 people who subscribe to the Go Sports program, or the group that is reaching millions of people with their footage/logo placement/etc.
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Old 07-06-2021, 04:00 PM #24
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For clarity/transparency - ProPaintball.com is not financially invested in this event. We have however talked to the guys putting it on and are supporting them as much as we can. That said, there are some areas folks have legitimate questions on and we will try to answer when possible.

The big misconception is that Astra, or anyone that hosts an event, needs to compete with the NXL. The NXL is its own "thing". Others can host events, just like the old days of Paintball, and they can be successful. If someone wants to start a rival national series (NPPL vs PSP, etc.) then we can absolutely compare them. But until then, lets just focus on whats actually happening here.

1) We just announced the event. Your reading it here on PBN, on ProPaintball, and its surely percolating on various social media channels. Everything you are hearing about is taking place in real time. It is important to keep in mind this is not a business entity that has been around for a decade recycling the same song and dance. This is a group of pro paintball players trying to put on a great event for other paintball players. From what we are hearing, the event is nearly sold out. That should tell you the reception is very positive from those invited.

2) The invited teams (who are competing) are the intended audience. Everything else is secondary.

3) Contrary to various opinions, you can stream content for free and expect people to care. People do it all the time. Two examples are Youtube [#2 ranked website in the world] and Twitch [#25 ranked website in the world].

Here is an example for you.. Yosh Designz had a paintball video on facebook that hit 1 million views. Now compare that to the (rumored) 10,000 people who tune in for GoSports pay-per-view for the recent MAO event. Between GoSports and Youtube/Facebook/Twitch, which of those has a more effective reach for paintball? Which of the platforms (Go Sports vs any of the rest) shows paintball to more prospective players?

If you were an outside sponsor, who would you rather talk to? The same 10,000 people who subscribe to the Go Sports program, or the group that is reaching millions of people with their footage/logo placement/etc.
You sold me, lol. I'm excited for this event. Really want to see how limited paint works, and I really want to see them remove the giant bricks and wedges.
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Old 07-07-2021, 04:16 AM #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Mason View Post
For clarity/transparency - ProPaintball.com is not financially invested in this event. We have however talked to the guys putting it on and are supporting them as much as we can. That said, there are some areas folks have legitimate questions on and we will try to answer when possible.

The big misconception is that Astra, or anyone that hosts an event, needs to compete with the NXL. The NXL is its own "thing". Others can host events, just like the old days of Paintball, and they can be successful. If someone wants to start a rival national series (NPPL vs PSP, etc.) then we can absolutely compare them. But until then, lets just focus on whats actually happening here.

1) We just announced the event. Your reading it here on PBN, on ProPaintball, and its surely percolating on various social media channels. Everything you are hearing about is taking place in real time. It is important to keep in mind this is not a business entity that has been around for a decade recycling the same song and dance. This is a group of pro paintball players trying to put on a great event for other paintball players. From what we are hearing, the event is nearly sold out. That should tell you the reception is very positive from those invited.

2) The invited teams (who are competing) are the intended audience. Everything else is secondary.

3) Contrary to various opinions, you can stream content for free and expect people to care. People do it all the time. Two examples are Youtube [#2 ranked website in the world] and Twitch [#25 ranked website in the world].

Here is an example for you.. Yosh Designz had a paintball video on facebook that hit 1 million views. Now compare that to the (rumored) 10,000 people who tune in for GoSports pay-per-view for the recent MAO event. Between GoSports and Youtube/Facebook/Twitch, which of those has a more effective reach for paintball? Which of the platforms (Go Sports vs any of the rest) shows paintball to more prospective players?

If you were an outside sponsor, who would you rather talk to? The same 10,000 people who subscribe to the Go Sports program, or the group that is reaching millions of people with their footage/logo placement/etc.
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Old 07-07-2021, 08:31 AM #26
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Excited to see the team line up for this. Should be a very interesting event to watch if it happens
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Old 07-07-2021, 09:43 AM #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Mason View Post

If you were an outside sponsor, who would you rather talk to? The same 10,000 people who subscribe to the Go Sports program, or the group that is reaching millions of people with their footage/logo placement/etc.
Well, it depends on your engagement, conversion, cost, and goal.

Do I want to broadcast something to 1mm people if only .5 of them convert to a KPI?

What if the 10,000 followers are heavily engaged?

There is a lot more to this game than just racking up numbers. The algorithms are way smarter than that.
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Old 07-07-2021, 11:43 AM #28
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Well, it depends on your engagement, conversion, cost, and goal.

Do I want to broadcast something to 1mm people if only .5 of them convert to a KPI?

What if the 10,000 followers are heavily engaged?

There is a lot more to this game than just racking up numbers. The algorithms are way smarter than that.
Have you worked with most marketing people? They tend to gloss over turnover levels and generally prefer the bigger number that they can boost their "interaction" bottom line with.
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Old 07-07-2021, 11:55 AM #29
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If you were an outside sponsor, who would you rather talk to? The same 10,000 people who subscribe to the Go Sports program, or the group that is reaching millions of people with their footage/logo placement/etc.
Is Yosh Designs a big part of this?

I think the Astra Invitational is great for paintball, glad to see the invitationals that happened last year are going to continue, and glad to see the Semi-Pro teams will get to compete with the big boys - that is an aspect that is missing at NXL pro events.
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Old 07-07-2021, 12:36 PM #30
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Have you worked with most marketing people? They tend to gloss over turnover levels and generally prefer the bigger number that they can boost their "interaction" bottom line with.
Well, seeing as I am a director of digital products and strategies and run a part of the marketing team for a titan in its space I think I would know a few marketing people. My Job spans everything from digital to TV. We work in everything from mail prints, to magazines to social, tv, and anything else we can get our hands-on. We sponsor things titans sponsor our things. We dabble in literally everything.
Most are wrong and only care enough to get the job done. Few people actually care enough to be a force.

There isn't a cookie-cutter answer to anything but knowing your audience and goal are how you make a plan. You don't just copy what is "right" by boosting numbers. The algo will pick up that your views are getting boosted but no one is sticking around to watch and now your worse off than when you were getting high traction and engagement because you look like you have bad content. It's 2021 it's not just about eyeballs and clicks.

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Old 07-07-2021, 05:15 PM #31
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I love, as a community, when we're presented with something new, so many people just look for something to complain about. It's a great idea and a new format. Why complain and start drawing broad comparisons to the NXL? Let this event be its own thing.
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Old 07-09-2021, 05:09 PM #32
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Originally Posted by Justin Mason View Post

1) We just announced the event. Your reading it here on PBN, on ProPaintball, and its surely percolating on various social media channels. Everything you are hearing about is taking place in real time. It is important to keep in mind this is not a business entity that has been around for a decade recycling the same song and dance. This is a group of pro paintball players trying to put on a great event for other paintball players. From what we are hearing, the event is nearly sold out. That should tell you the reception is very positive from those invited.

2) The invited teams (who are competing) are the intended audience. Everything else is secondary.

3) Contrary to various opinions, you can stream content for free and expect people to care. People do it all the time. Two examples are Youtube [#2 ranked website in the world] and Twitch [#25 ranked website in the world].

Here is an example for you.. Yosh Designz had a paintball video on facebook that hit 1 million views. Now compare that to the (rumored) 10,000 people who tune in for GoSports pay-per-view for the recent MAO event. Between GoSports and Youtube/Facebook/Twitch, which of those has a more effective reach for paintball? Which of the platforms (Go Sports vs any of the rest) shows paintball to more prospective players?

If you were an outside sponsor, who would you rather talk to? The same 10,000 people who subscribe to the Go Sports program, or the group that is reaching millions of people with their footage/logo placement/etc.
1. It's a month from the event. I was simply pointing out that not only do people not even know what Astra is, there is zero advertising. That's strange to me.

2. You're telling me the intended audience is only the players? Then why even cast it at all or fork out the money for it? That statement makes it seem like the literal only reason for the event is to make money off the teams or get them away from the NXL.

3. I was obviously speaking directly about paintball. You can't stream paintball for free and expect that to work. That's obviously just my opinion but it's been done before for paintball and didn't really do a whole lot for the sport outside of the then current player group. It also failed to survive and we now only have a subscription based service. Sure bunkerfest casted their event and so do some smaller events, but the production value and quality is far inferior.

Hopefully this does a lot for the sport, but given that it's just going to be a singular event, I don't know what they are expecting to happen with no advertising.

People don't just turn on youtube and randomly watch streams of paintball unless they play the game or have some skin in it. It's been debated countless times. It's not easy to follow. There is no singular focal point. I really hope the mix it up with a new bunker set or rules because doing the same thing NXL does, for free, with ****tier teams is not the move. NXL/Gosports already stream a significant amount of their events for free.

I love the sport and wish other people saw what I see in it, I can watch matches all day. I just have my doubts about not advertising and hitting those goals unless the goal is to create a rival series and take player/team market share. I believe this is why the NXL is responding by having an Open division (heard but didn't see on pbleagues).

Regardless, I will be watching and I really hope this works.
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Old 07-13-2021, 10:34 AM #33
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I hope this thing goes great. I got out of the game for quite some time and when I came back and looked, I was saddened to see the stand-alone events pretty much gone.

Skyball, IAO, Mardis Gras, Ultimate Madness, Paintcheck, etc were great fun.
Lively, NPPL, PSP were just an event in the series. Sure HB and somewhat WC had a better vibe than the average legs, but the standalone events were better for the players.

Currently, it seems ICC is the only national event with positive reviews and the reviews are glowing. Something to be said for not diluting a promotors effort among a bunch of legs in a series.
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Old 07-13-2021, 11:04 AM #34
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I am excited to see this event but there seems to be a hush about the event. I would like to see the event have some more information that is published about the event at this point. This could be teams attending, head ref, and other promotional material.

I think that stand alone events are nice but we need to stop this comparison and mud slinging to the NXL. the NXL is and will be a league dedicated to this, even if people want to smack talk the organization. This event and others like it must make that distinction and separate themselves from taking shots at the NXL.

As such, I want this to succeed but people seem to be looking for a replacement for the NXL which is not good for growing our engagement size. We need that same want to exist in leagues to expand to D2 Play as well. There are surely D2 players that want to play more paintball than the NXL offers but who is catering to them?

I hope this is a success and that the sport benefits from the success of the event.
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Old 07-13-2021, 01:29 PM #35
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Recap: Propaintball.com is claiming (not questioning) the NXL is "trying to squash the Astra Invitational," while simultaneously stating they are "supporting them (astra) as much as they can."

So couldn't the NXL make the same claim against ProPaintball.com? Isn't ProPaintball.com trying to hurt the NXL's reputation in its support of Astra?

The whole accusation seems to be hypocritical...
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Old 07-13-2021, 03:09 PM #36
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Originally Posted by John-Paintball.Media View Post
Recap: Propaintball.com is claiming (not questioning) the NXL is "trying to squash the Astra Invitational," while simultaneously stating they are "supporting them (astra) as much as they can."

So couldn't the NXL make the same claim against ProPaintball.com? Isn't ProPaintball.com trying to hurt the NXL's reputation in its support of Astra?

The whole accusation seems to be hypocritical...
So by that logic anyone that does anything paintball related is hurting the NXL? Did GI/NXL buy the entire sport of paintball? Bleep them!

Pure speculation on my part but I would believe Propaintball on this one. Just based on GI/NXL past behavior. Whenever someone tries to do something new the NXL/GI tries to copy it or make it their own.
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Old 07-13-2021, 03:12 PM #37
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So by that logic anyone that does anything paintball related is hurting the NXL? Did GI/NXL buy the entire sport of paintball? Bleep them!

Pure speculation on my part but I would believe Propaintball on this one. Just based on GI/NXL past behavior. Whenever someone tries to do something new the NXL/GI tries to copy it or make it their own.
If a media company admits they are trying to help grow an event, while at the same time, making negative claims against the "other" people running a tournament, it's clearly a conflict of interest.

Also, GI holds no ownership stake in the NXL anymore....
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Old 07-13-2021, 08:52 PM #38
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Originally Posted by John-Paintball.Media View Post
Recap: Propaintball.com is claiming (not questioning) the NXL is "trying to squash the Astra Invitational," while simultaneously stating they are "supporting them (astra) as much as they can."

So couldn't the NXL make the same claim against ProPaintball.com? Isn't ProPaintball.com trying to hurt the NXL's reputation in its support of Astra?

The whole accusation seems to be hypocritical...
The NXL changing their event to have an Open division and potentially lure teams that would have been invited to Astra is a pretty clear signal.
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Old 07-14-2021, 07:00 AM #39
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The NXL changing their event to have an Open division and potentially lure teams that would have been invited to Astra is a pretty clear signal.
I'll say the same thing with different words.... it's the media's job to report facts, while being as neutral as possible. If a media company publicly supports an event, a cause, a company it is a conflict of interest to criticize the competition of what they support. This is Media 101.

It's also the job of the media to at least attempt to get a statement from both sides. I don't see that from Astra or the NXL in ProPaintball's report.
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Old 07-14-2021, 10:23 AM #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John-Paintball.Media View Post
Recap: Propaintball.com is claiming (not questioning) the NXL is "trying to squash the Astra Invitational," while simultaneously stating they are "supporting them (astra) as much as they can."

So couldn't the NXL make the same claim against ProPaintball.com? Isn't ProPaintball.com trying to hurt the NXL's reputation in its support of Astra?

The whole accusation seems to be hypocritical...
Quote:
Originally Posted by John-Paintball.Media View Post
If a media company admits they are trying to help grow an event, while at the same time, making negative claims against the "other" people running a tournament, it's clearly a conflict of interest.

Also, GI holds no ownership stake in the NXL anymore....
Maybe I am overlooking it or misread it, but where does it say that ProPB is helping grow Astra or outright claimed to support that event over another? Again, maybe I just missed that part, Im honestly just asking so I can read it.


In my opinion, I think the statement of them trying to "squash Astra" moreso comes from the leaked email that was posted which came well after the Astra guys were getting teams together.

And it also is a bit odd in my opinion that this next event was sold as a divisional minor, and suddenly has an open division for pros as soon as another event is announced. Id like to hear if the NXL was planning this for awhile, or the main reason why they decided to have this event so late in the game when Pro budgets are already mostly spent by now? All just my opinion though.
I hope Astra wins.I want two leagues again. Or the NXL collapse. I Liked the psp Way better.
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Old 07-14-2021, 11:04 AM #41
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I hope Astra wins.I want two leagues again. Or the NXL collapse. I Liked the psp Way better.
The NXL will never get better if somebody like this isn't pushing them to get better.
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Old 07-14-2021, 12:10 PM #42
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If a media company admits they are trying to help grow an event, while at the same time, making negative claims against the "other" people running a tournament, it's clearly a conflict of interest.

Also, GI holds no ownership stake in the NXL anymore....
Hey John, your welcome to publish your take on the timelines and events. We would all be happy to read it.

ProPaintball.com doesn't make the story up - we just do our best to validate the information we are provided, verify the timelines and put the info out there for the community to judge. In this case we tried to offer constructive feedback as well. We want to see the NXL succeed - we want to see Professional Paintball become a reality - and we want to see MORE people playing paintball, irregardless of if they compete in a series or play walk-on. Testing out various format changes, marketing strategies, and prize incentives are all good efforts in our eyes. That is why we support the Astra concept. Its not because its "anti-NXL" as is being suggested. Frankly, I don't see the NXL and Astra as competitors. If anything this could be more of a test bed for potential 2022 series tweaks and adjustments.

For what its worth - ProPaintball.com actively supports the NXL as well. Financially speaking, all of our current writers have competed in the 2021 NXL series..can any other paintball media group say the same?

In addition to actively competing in the NXL, we also create content around the series. A recent example of this was our team writing the daily event recaps for MAO. The NXL used those recaps on NXLPaintball.com and shared them to followers via social media. For transparency, there was no money exchanged. This was just us actively supporting paintball and being fans of the teams.

Take a look at the content we have on ProPaintball.com. In addition to regular NXL team coverage and player movements, we regularly promote various events and cover happenings with the league. Free of charge. No dollars exchanged. Nothing asked of the NXL. Just us doing it because we like paintball and want to create a better community.

Again, we are not "against" the NXL. We wrote one article that tied together various timelines and activities and provided constructive feedback. We put this out for public discussion. Sorry if anyone's feelings got hurt, that wasn't the intent. Rather than be sour, lets grow a tougher skin and get back to making paintball better.
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