Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-23-2020, 10:38 AM #1
Jambs
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
New Barrel Design

When I started playing paintball in 2001, none of the barrels could effectively put any spin on the ball. Now thereís the flatline, first strike, Carmatech and Armson, but I think I found a better method using a rifling technique from the 1850s. Itís called Lancaster rifling (I tried to post a link, but it didnít work. It was called Colindian rifling or lancaster rifling, and a google search will pull up some good stuff), but the simple explanation is that the barrel doesnít have any lands or grooves. Instead, its cross section is an oval where the major and the minor axis rotates as it travels through the barrel. The difference between the major and the minor axis is very small, so it actually appears to be a circle, and it does a good job sealing the gases. It accurately fired a round ball, but it fell out of favor because it was more expensive to produce. The rifle barrels that they developed had a difference of .006 inches between the major and minor axis, so thatís what I used (Thatís about the thickness of two human hairs).

I thought it would be a perfect for paintball barrels, so I filed a patent on it (which is still pending), and started asking shops how much it would cost to make one. Most of them said they couldnít do it, or ignored me, so I went to a vocational school, and learned how to work the machines myself. After a year of trial and lots of errors, I am able to make a oval barrel that rotates counter clockwise. The major axis is .686 and minor axis is .680.

Right now Iím working on threading the barrel so that I can screw it into a gun and test it, but I wanted to start getting feedback now. I am a high school science teacher, so I have no experience in manufacturing, but Iíve discovered that I love working with CNC machines, and I want to make the barrels if I can do it without losing too much money. (Last week I ordered a new end mill, and my wife asked if I ever missed playing golf. Sheís also threatened to start buying a new pair of shoes every time I buy a new tool, and our closet wonít hold many more of those.)

I have a few questions, and if you would fill out this survey it would really help me. I couldn't get the hyperlink to work, but if you copy and past the link below I'd really appreciate it.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1F...iLr6Q/viewform

If you donít want to fill out the survey, I would still appreciate any comments on this post. Thank you all so much for your time.
Jambs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 08-23-2020, 07:38 PM #2
dualimpact
I'm A Hypocrite
 
dualimpact's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 817
 has been a member for 10 years
dualimpact helped look for balloons
dualimpact is playing at Living Legends III
dualimpact is playing at Living Legends Dreaded
 is playing at Dead Legends
Interesting idea.

I'd love to help test.

I could anodize a few barrels for you in exchange for one.
__________________
SIG
GOES
HERE
dualimpact is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2020, 06:50 AM #3
martix_agent
Mandated fun
 
martix_agent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Indiana
martix_agent is one of the top 250 posters on PbNation
What would make this a "better" design for the end user?

Autococker threads, is the answer And/Or Tippman A5 threads. Those guys seem to love spinning balls.
__________________
martix_agent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2020, 10:14 AM #4
Jambs
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Quote:
Originally Posted by dualimpact View Post
Interesting idea.

I'd love to help test.

I could anodize a few barrels for you in exchange for one.
That sounds great to me. If you'll fill out the survey or PM me your e-mail address and a comment, I'll work on getting one too you.
Jambs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2020, 10:16 AM #5
Jambs
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Great question. Without spin, paintballs fly like a knuckle ball pitch, where they randomly weave. Consistent velocity helps minimize the y variance, but putting a spin on it should help minimize the x variance as well and make the gun more accurate.
Jambs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2020, 10:24 AM #6
martix_agent
Mandated fun
 
martix_agent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Indiana
martix_agent is one of the top 250 posters on PbNation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jambs View Post
Great question. Without spin, paintballs fly like a knuckle ball pitch, where they randomly weave. Consistent velocity helps minimize the y variance, but putting a spin on it should help minimize the x variance as well and make the gun more accurate.
I was more asking about yours vs other brands that add spin. You must believe in your design quite a bit to go to school just to design and create it.
__________________
martix_agent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2020, 11:52 AM #7
ironyusa
John - conscious paradox
 
ironyusa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Tyler, TX
ironyusa works for a Paintball manufacturer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jambs View Post
Great question. Without spin, paintballs fly like a knuckle ball pitch, where they randomly weave. Consistent velocity helps minimize the y variance, but putting a spin on it should help minimize the x variance as well and make the gun more accurate.
What effect in physics results in the performance change you're looking to achieve? If you calculate the length of the control bore and the twist rate, is it technically feasible? Additionally, assuming a ball isn't perfectly spherical, what would be the estimated impact of asymmetry?

Rifled barrels suck with just about anything other than first strike rounds... the people that buy first strike rounds are your target market for a product like this.
__________________
"(...) the only way to speak seriously to the world today is with irony." - Umberto Eco

Frmr pntbl ngnr [/crbnspk]
ironyusa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2020, 02:13 PM #8
Paul77
Can't find my old account
 
Paul77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Canada
Annual Supporting Member
Paul77 supports DLX Technology
After spending a bunch of time this year learning the ins and outs of the paint business, lots of the paint out there isn’t weighted very well.

-some will have an air pocket that makes it unbalanced
-some suffers from settled starch making it very unevenly weighted
-some has the gelatin on one side weighing more.

All of these factors make paint shoot worse when rotated. It would be different if paint was perfect. I agree fs is your target market
__________________
Powered by Powerhouse Regulators, DLX, Pro-Shar, Prairie Storm Paintball

All my weird random paintball parts for sale on eBay feel free to PM me offers on here.

NIB Black Grill Visor Kit, pm me
Paul77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2020, 10:35 AM #9
Jambs
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul77 View Post
After spending a bunch of time this year learning the ins and outs of the paint business, lots of the paint out there isn’t weighted very well.

-some will have an air pocket that makes it unbalanced
-some suffers from settled starch making it very unevenly weighted
-some has the gelatin on one side weighing more.

All of these factors make paint shoot worse when rotated. It would be different if paint was perfect. I agree fs is your target market
It's possible that my idea won't work, and if that's the case I'm okay. Thankfully I didn't quit my day job, and equally importantly I've enjoyed the journey of learning how to make things, so the time and money I spent doing that was well spent. I appreciate your insight about paintball imperfections, and I'll create a new post after I test it and let everyone know how it works.
Jambs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2020, 10:45 AM #10
Jambs
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Quote:
Originally Posted by martix_agent View Post
I was more asking about yours vs other brands that add spin. You must believe in your design quite a bit to go to school just to design and create it.
Well I did, but the feedback is making me start to doubt it, LOL. I still had a great time learning how to make everything work, and if it fails, I have other projects that I get to move onto. I've come far enough that I get to test it and it won't be a theoretical discussion soon. Griffin Spanner at Parabolic even agreed to help me test the idea, so an expert will be showing me the ropes.

Last edited by Jambs : 08-26-2020 at 10:51 AM.
Jambs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2020, 01:55 PM #11
martix_agent
Mandated fun
 
martix_agent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Indiana
martix_agent is one of the top 250 posters on PbNation
ironyusa is also correct. First strike users are your main target market.
__________________
martix_agent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2020, 05:22 PM #12
ironyusa
John - conscious paradox
 
ironyusa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Tyler, TX
ironyusa works for a Paintball manufacturer
Jambs, not that you care, but I've designed a thing or 2 for the paintball market including the DSR and m3. That said, the gooey center of a paintball has some problem picking up it's spin from the shell. When I toyed with some ideas, the seam always seemed to present the biggest obstacle to flight... assuming a spherical ball. Then I realized any small deformation in the ball can cause terrible problems which get worse with spin. I am not saying the idea won't work, but maybe do a staight oval barrel and allow it to be indexed vertically and see what happens.
__________________
"(...) the only way to speak seriously to the world today is with irony." - Umberto Eco

Frmr pntbl ngnr [/crbnspk]
ironyusa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2020, 08:56 AM #13
Jambs
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Quote:
Originally Posted by ironyusa View Post
Jambs, not that you care, but I've designed a thing or 2 for the paintball market including the DSR and m3. That said, the gooey center of a paintball has some problem picking up it's spin from the shell. When I toyed with some ideas, the seam always seemed to present the biggest obstacle to flight... assuming a spherical ball. Then I realized any small deformation in the ball can cause terrible problems which get worse with spin. I am not saying the idea won't work, but maybe do a staight oval barrel and allow it to be indexed vertically and see what happens.
Thank you so much for sharing your idea. I do appreciate it tremendously, and I will try it. The reason I'm sharing this is to get other people's opinions because I want to try as many ideas as possible.
Jambs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2020, 09:24 AM #14
ironyusa
John - conscious paradox
 
ironyusa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Tyler, TX
ironyusa works for a Paintball manufacturer
Is it safe to assume you're going to be using broaching to make the profile?
__________________
"(...) the only way to speak seriously to the world today is with irony." - Umberto Eco

Frmr pntbl ngnr [/crbnspk]
ironyusa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2020, 12:27 PM #15
Jambs
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Quote:
Originally Posted by ironyusa View Post
Is it safe to assume you're going to be using broaching to make the profile?
That was my original plan, but making a home made press that could force the broach through was actually much more difficult then I expected. I eventually used a CNC machine to do the cuts. It's been really interesting to me, because so many of my original ideas ended up not working.
Jambs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2020, 07:42 PM #16
AzianAssassin
R.I.P. Team PBWagon
 
AzianAssassin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Destin, FL
 has been a member for 10 years
AzianAssassin owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
I'm stoked you're working with Griff on this idea. His barrel design's ability to add FPS is what I consider to be a giant step forward technologically-speaking for barrel design. I look forward to follow your results and I'll submit a survey in the meantime.
__________________
Making a comeback...
AzianAssassin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump