[Guch]

Hopefully many of you who are experiencing fsdo with your M3 have minimized the problem. My M3 has just over 106,000 clicks and still looks new inside and out. I have had fsdo since about the 90k mark and dispite efforts in hpr rebuilds and bolt rebuilds the problem has persisted. So I decided to dive into the solenoid. My gun started off as an m3s and at about 60k shots I upgraded it to a full M3+ including the SLAP. So with only 40k shots on my solenoid I didn't feel the need to maintenance it. But because the fsdo was not going away I dove in.

One thing I did notice as I was taking solenoid off the gun body was that one of the solenoid screws was not very tight. I always fear that these tiny micro screws will get stripped and ruin the gun body. I don't know why these gun manufacturers still use these tiny tiny screws. I remember my Smart Parts Nerve actually had a manifold that is mounted onto the body and if you stripped a solenoid screw all you needed to do was get a new manifold.

After finding the screw that wasn't actually loose but definitely not as tight as the other three I started to wonder what if a small small small leak could eventually put the gun into a pneumatic lock situation. Shooting the gun would then relieve the unbalanced pressures and quickly start to operate normally. The more I thought about it the more it started to make sense that that's what I think is actually happening in a fsdo situation.

By the way my solenoid was squeaky clean with next to no excessive grease whatsoever. After looking at the spool itself under a microscope the o-rings we're still in like new condition. Under the microscope I discovered a small crack in the mounting boss for the pilot. It's interesting but it looks like the pilot itself is identical to the pilot on any early DM series solenoid. Maybe someone can chime in and let me know if that's true or not so I can replace my cracked one with a new one from a DM solenoid. The crack is very minor and it still mounts and functions properly but I think I'm going to stock a spare.

Anyways back to my pneumatic lock theory. I couldn't help to think that maybe one of my loose solenoid screws was allowing air to creep into another passage of the gun and then as soon as I pulled the trigger the pressures could vent and the bolt could function properly. I'm working on a Solid Works animation to analyze which chambers get pressure through the whole firing sequence to help me think about my hypothesis of how a small leak in the wrong chamber could cause this pneumatic lock that frees itself once the gun is shot.

One thing I wish DYE would change is the gasket between the solenoid and the gun body. It's got a large solid area in one part of it which makes the solenoid seal a little different because it takes a lot of pressure to squeeze that much rubber. It needs to be like the old solenoid where it's a continuous o-ring around all the passages. Tell you the truth it could be the source of problem. That gasket is no longer really an O-ring where that big section of rubber is and that could be our problem. That solid section of rubber doesn't act like an O-ring because its shape doesn't lend itself to sealing the same way an o-ring does. Maybe DYE could redesign the solenoid to take a new custom-made o-ring seal.

[Mr. Charlie]

So when you upgraded to the M3+ BWing Solenoid Housing you didn’t clean and relube the Solenoid Spool or Housing?

If so then that’s probably part of the reason why the problems started...

And I’m guessing that you didn’t lube the Gasket either?

Also, yes that loose screw could cause exactly what you described. When you tighten your Solenoid to the Body you should lightly tighten the screws in diagonal order first, then finish them up in diagonal order too - like a car rim it helps ensure that it is sitting evenly and tightened properly.

I recommend maintaining your Solenoid every 75,000 to 100,000 shots or about the same as is recommended for the Hyper 6 Pro Regulator and you can set the reminders for too.

Here is a thread I already made on it:

https://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=5995701

My M3s+ has ~110,000 shots on it, ~75,000 with the + parts and has ran perfectly since it’s been broken in...

Edit: the Solenoid Pilot is the same as the DSR. You can get them for ~$70 shipped.

[Guch]

I absolutely greased the spool when I upgraded to the blue billy wing solenoid housing. I also lightly lubed the gasket back when I did the upgrade. And I'm aware that the screws need to be tightened in an x pattern a little at a time. I'm still standing my ground on the bad gasket design. DYE is not going to like the idea of another revision of the housing AND the cost of another gasket mold but I think it needs to be looked at to eliminate any dissimilar air passage cross talk. Thanks for the info on the pilot. I happen to have a few spare DM solenoids and was hoping they had the same pilot. They look the same and the voltage is the same but I've not dug deeper into the compatibility.

[Mr. Charlie]

Oh ok.

Walls of text are harder to read...

Did you lube the inside of the Solenoid Housing too? And all seals and gaskets like I mentioned in my Solenoid Maintenance thread?

I know that when I just maintained my Solenoid I had problems seating it against the Body. It’s possible that yours wasn’t all the way tightened and that caused the screw to either be loose or allowed it to loosen and cause your problems.

I hate those tiny screws too. If you are worried about them loosening up again you could try putting a little dab of Blue Loctite on them.

The Gasket design is ok but everything must be properly lubed and installed.

Have you also looked/examined the inside of the Solenoid Housing?

I’ve read that some of them might not have the best milling...

I’ve been saying this for a while: Dye needs to step up their quality control and testing!

I believe the Pilots are the same as the DM series too but I’m not sure if they are both compatible, like if the wires are long enough, etc. I know the DSR Pilot is exactly the same.

[Guch]

Sorry I'll try to break up my paragraphs next time I go into a big rant like that. I see you do it and your right, it definitely makes it easier to read.

Yeh, I followed your recommendations servicing my solenoid. I'm a big fan of blue loctite. I use the gel type for almost all my hardware on my mountain bike. Not only does it help hold the screws and bolts tight, it helps keep moisture out of the threads thus helping eliminate corrosion in the threads.

Now that the trigger frame is so easy to remove I'lll be keeping an eye on the four solenoid to gun body screws.