[Greyarea_17]

Hey everyone,
If this topic has already been brought up and can find the thread link, I apologize for the repeat and appreciate the redirection.

M3+ with 5k shots. Only owner
Running pro v2 ninja reg and Gen 3 PH reg.
Software V. 4.02.1
Dwell 20
ABS 03
ABS WT 20

Recently having nasty velocity spikes.
Range is 250-300
Shooting good paint, good bore matches
Have tried with both tank regs and over boring the paint to barrel to receive same results. I have fully wiped down engine and bolt and put fresh dye lube on. Velocity got a little better but still spiking in large ranges. Looking for some direction and solutions to take.

Also been having difficulty removing the engine from the gun. It seems to be sticking after it sits for a few days or right after it is gassed up for play. It was sticking so bad that while I wiggled it loose it ended up jerking out of the body and scraping the can.
1. What causes the engine to stick so badly and not remove easily as seen in most videos?
2. In the photo below, will this scrape to the can cause problems or consistency issues?

Love this gun. It worked flawlessly out of the box but can't walk on the field at a tournament with it's current condition. Any help is most appreciated.

[Mr. Charlie]

The scratch won’t matter at all. Mine is about like that from the previous owner.

Can you raise your Dwell any more?

I’ve been running my Dwell at 21.5 since it’s been so hot and humid lately.

Also, you might want to check out your Regulator and possibly Solenoid. Some M3+ have been coming overlubed from the factory.

[Greyarea_17]

Mr. Charlie,

Really appreciate you taking the time to respond. I've actually read a few of your posts here and think it's awesome that you're helping others out so much.
I wanted to provide an update.

I can confirm the bolt and engine were not loose and also made sure the orings were sitting well and no hidden cuts.
After Mr. Charlie's recommendation I did take a part the reg and found a lot of heavy thick grease inside. Almost to the point where I could actually see it obstructing air flow, if that's even possible. Perhaps the summer heat caused it to thicken and could possibly explain why out of the box it shot perfect but with time hanging outside it started having issues?

Cleaned it up as best as I could and applied the dye lube. Will be able to test this Sunday and let you all know who might be following this if there are improvements.

I'm also relieved to hear that scratch shouldn't impact the performance. I try to take care very good care of my equipment so I'm sure others can relate to my face palm when the bolt stick caused me to jerk it and scratch.

[Mr. Stealthy]

The main cause of the bolt stick or inconsistencies that I have seen has been due to old (out of the box) lube gunked up in the solemoid and/or high pressure regulator. This things get built in Taiwan and then ship and sit packaged and shelved for an unknown amount of time. Give it a good cleaning and you shouldn’t have any issues. I also don’t think you really need to run the dwell that high (I know Charlie is a fan). Speaking to designers of the gun (John and Billy Wing), 16-18 dwell runs just fine and excessive dwell could actually be detrimental. I had zero bolt stick on mine at 18 dwell and I cleaned and relubed both the solenoid and hpr straight out of the box. I have seen solenoid cleanings clear up bolt stick on a handful of guns now as well.

As for bolt removal, I find rotating the bolt in a circle as you pull it out helps loosen it. You also have to carefully wiggle it past the poorly milled channels on the inside of the body. The outer bolt can wear will not cause any performance issues, but it is an annoying oversight on Dye’s part.

[Greyarea_17]

Thanks Stealthy. I haven't looked at the solenoid yet, but after seeing the HPR you're probably right. I'll take a look at that this weekend as well.

As far as dwell goes, there seemed to be some mass agreement that after the latest software push that 20 was the perfect dwell setting? As well as the ABS setting.

I'll play around with dropping it down to 18 and 20 and see what happens. But that's where my settings came from. First dye gun so I was a bit of a follower in this circumstance to what is "best practice"

[Mr. Charlie]

Yeah. I’m basically the person that found out that the M3+ was under-Dwelled from factory.

Their original update changed the Stock Dwell to 20 milliseconds from 16. Everyone was getting Bolt Stick at 16 ms. I wouldn’t recommend trying to lower your Dwell until it is broken in.

The only detriment having a longer Dwell setting can possibly do to this Bolt System is lower the ROF...

Also, when removing the Bolt System from my marker I usually push the Bolt Tip with my other hand while pulling it out. The Flex Face Bolt is a really tight fit in the new Gen. 4 Eye Pipes.

[Greyarea_17]

Sad to report there is no change in the velocity spikes. Bolt is clean, tight and well lubed. Reg was cleaned and lubed Solenoid was cleaned and lubed as well. I only found the reg to be totally caked in heavy grease so I was really hoping that was the main cause.

I also adjusted the dwell from 20 down to 18 and saw no change. My reg is holding at 250 and ranges from 250 to 298.

Could very well be all user error, since I know dye makes great guns. but I think I'll be selling this and sticking with my luxe X.

Appreciate everyone's help!

[Mr. Charlie]

You said you are bore matching?

That’s probably the worst for consistency especially if the paint isn’t the best.

I always overbore, it’s slightly less efficient but more consistent and you don’t have to worry about breaking paint as much.

[Greyarea_17]

Not today. I normally do because I've never had problems like this before. Today I made sure that I was running the UL 87. Shooting APX advanced. Not the best quality this batch but fit the barrel with ease. Lots rolled through.

I know to expect some deviation. Velocity and paint match will never be perfect. I've just never had a high end gun be this inconsistent. I usually get a very controlled point in my velocity and my biggest concern is not being able to walk on the field at a tournament with spikes like this.

[Mr. Charlie]

You want all of them to roll through easily to properly overbore.

I’d also raise my Dwell and FSDO back up. As long as you are playing NXL points or even shooting 13 BPS I’m sure you’d be fine running the Dwell at 21.5 if needed.

The thing with Dwell insensitive markers like this is they are not really sensitive to over-dwelling but if they’re still shooting inconsistently then it’s fine to raise the Dwell as that should help with consistency.

If you maintained your Regulator and Solenoid then it’s gotta be either the paint or possibly your tank isn’t outputting consistently?

What tank and tank Regulator are you using?

Also, there wasn’t any ring in the Regulator Seat was there? That will cause inconsistency too.

Also make sure you aren’t lubing any Bumper Orings.

[SlaveAway]

Could be the HPR reg seat. I'd inspect that and I believe dye always includes at least one replacement seat in their parts kits. You can either try to flip the current seat or just install install the new one.

[Greyarea_17]

Never mind, looked up the part list. I think I see what you're talking about. I'll pull it apart tonight again and take some photos to share. Maybe I missed something.

Is the regulator seat the thick black rubber bumper that sits outside of the bottom of the HPR? That has to be slipped out before unscrewing the reg assembly?

[Greyarea_17]

Reg seat photos so far. I think I see the ring you might be asking about.

Dye M3 reg seat https://imgur.com/a/6umIlyR

[Mr. Charlie]

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/08...98449855103051

Here is the Manual.

Page 18 is the Regulator. Part #12 in the example is the Regulator Seat.

The “ring” I’m talking about is an indentation in the surface of the Regulator Seat that causes inconsistency.

[Greyarea_17]

Hey Mr. Charlie,
I think my reg seat had that indentation you're talking about. I linked imgur to show you what the old one looked like. I went ahead and just replaced it with a new one from the parts kit. There were 2 spares in the box.

I'm guessing this is caused when someone screws the cap on too tight and pinches the reg seat ring? I made sure not to overtighten.

[Mr. Charlie]

Lol.

Yeah check out that part...

Also, I’d recommend only using the tank you have with the PowerHouse Regulator.

The Ninja Ball Valves can cause inconsistency too.