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Old 04-22-2020, 11:26 AM #43
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Loved it, was surprised the short amount of time on the Dynasty era.

I feel like the "Big Business" section should be its own movie. Was super interesting and went really fast. I am guessing there were tons of things left out.



Also why didn't they explain the Salm "Sniper Incident" they just assumed everyone knew what happened.
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Old 04-22-2020, 12:03 PM #44
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A HUGE thank you is due to John for making this film! This is the best piece of paintball media that I have ever seen! It brought me back to the renegade every man for themselves days of my youth. When we didn't have chrono and didn't care.

If you love paintball (like myself), I don't see how you couldn't love this film too. The haters want perfection and things their way. Screw that, you did it right the first time John! I cannot wait to watch the extended interviews and the editors cut (super long version).
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Old 04-22-2020, 12:06 PM #45
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Loved it, was surprised the short amount of time on the Dynasty era.

I feel like the "Big Business" section should be its own movie. Was super interesting and went really fast. I am guessing there were tons of things left out.



Also why didn't they explain the Salm "Sniper Incident" they just assumed everyone knew what happened.
Lasoya goes into a lot of detail about that on Carl Markowski's podcast. If half of what he said was true more than Salm should have had the hammer dropped on them.
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Old 04-22-2020, 12:10 PM #46
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How can I watch this on my TV? I downloaded the Vimeo app on my Amazon firestick, but I can't find the movie.
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Old 04-22-2020, 12:23 PM #47
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How can I watch this on my TV? I downloaded the Vimeo app on my Amazon firestick, but I can't find the movie.
You can. I just searched Paintball and it came up first but you have to be in the OnDemand section of Vimeo...
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Old 04-22-2020, 02:48 PM #48
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I bought it and watched it last night. I'd rate it a 4/5. It started really strong and interesting! Ultimately it didn't cover several things I would've liked to see. It probably could've dropped 40 minutes or replaced a lot with the stuff I'd rather see, but you can tell a lot of effort and heart went into this. This will certainly be the most comprehensive effort to produce a history overview for paintball forever. So, all of the work is appreciated! Thank you!

EDIT: Can't wait to see the dropped/cut interviews! Make sure you share when and where they're going to be available.
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Old 04-22-2020, 03:15 PM #49
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How can I watch this on my TV? I downloaded the Vimeo app on my Amazon firestick, but I can't find the movie.
It's there....look harder.
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Old 04-23-2020, 01:00 AM #50
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I wasn't really impressed with the video to be honest. My wife wasn't in either (and she likes documentaries, had some of the same complaints hard to follow) Could have done a much better job. It kept going back and forth from one time.

Chronological order was kind of thrown out

It was showing macdev gti's and then it would go back to autocockers but it was talking about tournaments and things like that and just jumping around. It briefly touched on the smart parts incident... That was big for paintball. It didn't really mention or talk about a lot of names in paintball that are hug influences. Made sure to cover PE though...

also how does this help grow the sport in any way shape or form? no one is going to pay to see this well I can't say no one but most people are not going to pay to see this. Except actual paintballers who are interested in this kind of thing. I enjoyed heroes for a day and some other things but this honestly I got a few things out of it that was kind of cool but it was relatively boring didn't really emphasize the actual turning points. It talked about them in the same tone as if everything was just normal.

Honestly I think it was a waste of my money but that's just me and my opinion. like I said I learned a few things but not a ton of stuff that really wowed me.

I think this should have been a two-part video from the beginning up to maybe 95 and then 95 up to present with more details on the smart parts issues. The rise and fall of companies. What happened with the cheating incident that almost took down the entire team..

XSV I didn't here mentioned?

I think it could have been done much better and I didn't like the fact that I had to read or scroll along. The streaming platform that it was played on I literally had to make an account and then go in and pay for an account and then go in and pay for the actual video. Granted I'm under some 30-day trial I'm about to cancel but still.

I think this should have been paintball the origin story and stopped after the original tournaments started getting big and speedball started becoming a thing. Then start part 2...

Again these are just some of my thoughts and takes on the video I kept expecting it to get better. Instead I should have listened to some of the earlier comments and just watch the first 40 minutes.

This could have been something to bring attention to paintball and help drive more people back to it after all this stuff is over. however it would have needed to be on something that they were already using such as Netflix or something along those lines and I understand that it takes deals with those so maybe just YouTube TV I don't know what could have been done differently to make it pray for those who have a subscription to something already. Make it more publicly known etc.

How did they make such an emphasis on the ego but they didn't make an emphasis on the shocker... They made a point at the shoebox shocker but not the SFT?

Again just some of my opinions.

In the end thank you for making it though. I enjoyed getting to see some of the big names and interviews taking us back to the days.
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Old 04-23-2020, 10:23 AM #51
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Found it. Watched it. My opinion pretty much mirrors the post above me from shawneebear.
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Old 04-23-2020, 01:19 PM #52
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A costly youtube documentary on an already expensive sport. Motion pictures are less than $13... in theatres. Obviously the goal wasn't to attract new players, or to "gift" anything to the tiny existing community. Hope it's as profitable as planned...

Gonna light up and enjoy this regulators documentary... for free.
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Old 04-23-2020, 02:47 PM #53
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A costly youtube documentary on an already expensive sport. Motion pictures are less than $13... in theatres. Obviously the goal wasn't to attract new players, or to "gift" anything to the tiny existing community. Hope it's as profitable as planned...

Gonna light up and enjoy this regulators documentary... for free.
I watched the Regulators doc last night and it was great. There's a place for free content and a place for paid. For our film, a history doc, it took 24 flights, 106 hotel nights, 400 hours of VHS tape transferred to digital, 700 magazines scanned and digitized, and a year+ of 8 hours a day of editing, $1000 worth of HD space, cloud storage, etc. at a cost of just under $95,000. So to answer your question, profitable? Not so much.

The history of the game has never been documented and maybe it's not for you and that's totally ok by me...

John
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Old 04-24-2020, 10:17 AM #54
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Originally Posted by RicoT. View Post
A costly youtube documentary on an already expensive sport. Motion pictures are less than $13... in theatres. Obviously the goal wasn't to attract new players, or to "gift" anything to the tiny existing community. Hope it's as profitable as planned...

Gonna light up and enjoy this regulators documentary... for free.
Comparing these two films as far as costs goes is just dumb. It cost me a small fraction to make Endeavor compared to what John and his team spent on making this.

One of the worst things in paintball are people who expect to be giving something for free. Not saying you are that person but that's the vibe you're giving off. This is why media in general have such a tough time shooting this sport. It's because a large majority don't want to pay what they should be paying us. So instead we settle for what we can get.

It's fine to not want to pay that, but to talk down on a film for trying to make back the money they spent on it isn't cool.

Trust me, if I could charge people to watch Endeavor I would have. But the negatives outweigh the positives in that scenario.
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Old 04-24-2020, 10:19 AM #55
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I watched the Regulators doc last night and it was great. There's a place for free content and a place for paid. For our film, a history doc, it took 24 flights, 106 hotel nights, 400 hours of VHS tape transferred to digital, 700 magazines scanned and digitized, and a year+ of 8 hours a day of editing, $1000 worth of HD space, cloud storage, etc. at a cost of just under $95,000. So to answer your question, profitable? Not so much.

The history of the game has never been documented and maybe it's not for you and that's totally ok by me...

John
Thanks John, I'm glad you enjoyed it! I haven't been able to sit down and watch yours yet (still recovering from making mine ) but I'm looking forward to it.
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Old 04-24-2020, 12:49 PM #56
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Thanks John, I'm glad you enjoyed it! I haven't been able to sit down and watch yours yet (still recovering from making mine ) but I'm looking forward to it.
I know the feeling. Great job on yours. I know a lot of work went into that...

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Old 04-24-2020, 04:55 PM #57
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Comparing these two films as far as costs goes is just dumb. It cost me a small fraction to make Endeavor compared to what John and his team spent on making this.
Ok..? Seems like you both have taken on expensive and unrewarding hobbies to photograph/videotape/document paintball then... My point was/is that I'll just enjoy the endless free media put out by people, like yourself, who realizes(see your last quote) nobody(especially kids, the exception being those w/ rich parents) wants to pay for paintball videos..expensive ones at that. More importantly, and as other people have stated but been ignored, this video could have been something to attract more players to the sport which God knows paintball could use, not to mention some diversity.... The majority of people today don't even know of, nor recognize, paintball AS a SPORT!


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One of the worst things in paintball are people who expect to be giving something for free.
That's the worst thing in paintball? Never would've known. Because everyone I know that's even rented gear to play and have some fun for a single day payed hundreds of dollars to play...for that SINGLE day. With no reward, free water, or any souvenir at all. But you're the paintball subject matter expert here(as no doubt, these mentalities are becoming more prevalent for every 40yr old that touched a Brass Eagle)...that knows the worst things in paintball... and the absolute worst is people wanting free ****.....


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Not saying you are that person but that's the vibe you're giving off.
There's no vibe pimpin... That's EXACTLY what I'm SAYING. This should have been free. If not ALSO televised or attempted to be put onto a major streaming platform.

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This is why media in general have such a tough time shooting this sport. It's because a large majority don't want to pay what they should be paying us
Fans not paying for videos is why amateur sports-videographers have such a hard time shooting paintball games? The logisitcs of the game aren't hard to capture on screen? While simultaneously conveying the source and direction of paint being shot, as another huge obstacle? The ****ty cameraman running up the tape trying to film a guy at the center of the field making bunker moves on the opposing team, but all the viewer sees is a guy disappear and the opposing player walking off field.... Aren't all reasons why nobody wants to pay to watch paintball videos?
BUT fans PAYING for these subpar, unorganized, hard to follow, videos would make it not such a "tough time shooting this sport"? Sure, interviews are great, but until the on-screen logistics are better I don't expect people to be pay-per-view'ing paintball... Nor do I suspect that's your largest obstacle.
By the way, in your opinion, what SHOULD "they"(do you even know who "they" is, in major televised sports?) be paying the self-proclaimed paintball media?

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It's fine to not want to pay that, but to talk down on a film for trying to make back the money they spent on it isn't cool.
I never spoke down on anything, because I hadn't viewed the movie to do so. I explicitly said the movie was obviously not marketed to attract new attention to the sport, was not a gift to the existing community, and that I hoped the creator profited the money he hoped to(whether to recoup costs or make an actual profit, I could care less) by charging $13.... Did I miss something?


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Trust me, if I could charge people to watch Endeavor I would have. But the negatives outweigh the positives in that scenario.
Referring to the fact that nobody would watch your movie if they had to pay, thus charging would be counterproductive...Correct? Exactly my point! Now, I hope defending(read as:dick riding) John despite my appreciation of your own movie's cost, got you the brownie points in the elite ranks of paintball media that you hoped. Good day.

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Old 04-24-2020, 06:07 PM #58
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Ok..? Seems like you both have taken on expensive and unrewarding hobbies to photograph/videotape/document paintball then... My point was/is that I'll just enjoy the endless free media put out by people, like yourself, who realizes(see your last quote) nobody(especially kids, the exception being those w/ rich parents) wants to pay for paintball videos..expensive ones at that. More importantly, and as other people have stated but been ignored, this video could have been something to attract more players to the sport which God knows paintball could use, not to mention some diversity.... The majority of people today don't even know of, nor recognize, paintball AS a SPORT!



That's the worst thing in paintball? Never would've known. Because everyone I know that's even rented gear to play and have some fun for a single day payed hundreds of dollars to play...for that SINGLE day. With no reward, free water, or any souvenir at all. But you're the paintball subject matter expert here(as no doubt, these mentalities are becoming more prevalent for every 40yr old that touched a Brass Eagle)...that knows the worst things in paintball... and the absolute worst is people wanting free ****.....



There's no vibe pimpin... That's EXACTLY what I'm SAYING. This should have been free. If not ALSO televised or attempted to be put onto a major streaming platform.


Fans not paying for videos is why amateur sports-videographers have such a hard time shooting paintball games? The logisitcs of the game aren't hard to capture on screen? While simultaneously conveying the source and direction of paint being shot, as another huge obstacle? The ****ty cameraman running up the tape trying to film a guy at the center of the field making bunker moves on the opposing team, but all the viewer sees is a guy disappear and the opposing player walking off field.... Aren't all reasons why nobody wants to pay to watch paintball videos?
BUT fans PAYING for these subpar, unorganized, hard to follow, videos would make it not such a "tough time shooting this sport"? Sure, interviews are great, but until the on-screen logistics are better I don't expect people to be pay-per-view'ing paintball... Nor do I suspect that's your largest obstacle.
By the way, in your opinion, what SHOULD "they"(do you even know who "they" is, in major televised sports?) be paying the self-proclaimed paintball media?


I never spoke down on anything, because I hadn't viewed the movie to do so. I explicitly said the movie was obviously not marketed to attract new attention to the sport, was not a gift to the existing community, and that I hoped the creator profited the money he hoped to(whether to recoup costs or make an actual profit, I could care less) by charging $13.... Did I miss something?



Referring to the fact that nobody would watch your movie if they had to pay, thus charging would be counterproductive...Correct? Exactly my point! Now, I hope defending(read as:dick riding) John despite my appreciation of your own movie's cost, got you the brownie points in the elite ranks of paintball media that you hoped. Good day.
Whenever I see a person say something should be free it tells me that person has been punching a time clock their entire working life.

When you do something do you feel your time has value? Do you give that time away? How much charity work have you done recently? How can anyone (with an IQ over 70) feel they are in a position to tell another person what he/she should give away for free?

You sound like a spoiled child with NO life experience. Good Day
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Old 04-24-2020, 06:15 PM #59
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Ok..? Seems like you both have taken on expensive and unrewarding hobbies to photograph/videotape/document paintball then
I'd say paintball is the most rewarding thing I've ever done.

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That's the worst thing in paintball? Never would've known.
As stated in my post, I said one of the worst. There are obviously more things in that category.

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There's no vibe pimpin... That's EXACTLY what I'm SAYING
Not sure how they'd be able to make the 95k back they put into the film then


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Fans not paying for videos is why amateur sports-videographers have such a hard time shooting paintball games?
Let me rephrase since I wasn't super clear. I meant it's hard to want to go to events and spend the money on camera gear when teams aren't willing to pay enough to cover a media persons expenses. I wasn't talking about the actual physical task of capturing the sport. My bad.

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I never spoke down on anything, because I hadn't viewed the movie to do so.
I mean doing this.... kind of seemed like you were talking down on the film, but if I was wrong I apologize.

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Referring to the fact that nobody would watch your movie if they had to pay, thus charging would be counterproductive...Correct?
Correct, for my film I wouldn't expect people to pay. It's a D2 team that hasn't made a name for themselves yet. Not saying nobody cares but it's not gonna pull in Dynasty or Impact film numbers.

For a film of the caliber they made, I 100 percent would charge for it. They had some big names in it and are telling a story that hasn't been covered a ton.

I'll share this with my media friends and see how many brownie points I get, I'm hoping for at least 10.
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Old 04-24-2020, 06:53 PM #60
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Finally got a chance to watch. Could it have been better... yea; but what couldn't.

That said - John - kudos man, I absolutely loved it I found myself somewhat sad as the credits started rolling, because I can only imagine there was a ton more you wanted to do, to say, to show; but you had to work with the constraints you had. The stuff about the first games was absolutely the best I've ever seen on the subject.

The whole thing reminds me how much I love this sport, this thing I do maybe once or twice a year now as I've gotten older, but that I just can't ever get out of my head.

So again as a player, a history nerd, and just a fan... Thank you for putting this together.
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Old 04-24-2020, 08:14 PM #61
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PBsales..a lame looking for attention.. I shouldn’t even respond to your speculations out of nowhere(unless I mentioned you by mistake?) as to my life experiences, past jobs, etc...especially based on my opinion that if this was free it would not only be a gift to the paintball community which sponsors could easily foot most the bill, if not all..they charge enough for ****, add a “feature” and charge even more...
This could have been available to NEW kids and parents and an audience that doesn’t play or has never played even once and felt the adrenaline the game has to safely offer and hook them on! To entertain your speculations and prove how far off your judgment couldn’t be, my life experiences consists of the army for 12 years, serving 2 deployments, selling drugs out of an abandoned house in New Orleans for 6 years, and finally being an ICU nurse for the past 3...and yours? AGAIN, I could care less about the money or actually having to buy it MYSELF. I want to SEE MORE KIDS IN THIS SPORT and things like this floating on Hulu or even YouTube could do that. Good day..clown.

Soulless, I’ve read all of your points and while most I guess were misunderstood, most I can understand and agree with. I’ll leave it at that. Your movie was enjoyed and appreciated. Thanks for the discussion.

Ultimately I’ve spent the $10 to rent this, and look forward to being able to watch it later tonight and form my own opinion on the documentary itself.
I’m sure, everyone here, will do the same.......

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Old 04-25-2020, 07:44 PM #62
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This thread took an odd turn...though I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion.

As someone who is married to a person that works heavily in documentary films, I know this labor of love was no easy feat. Thank you for doing what you could with what you had. And I can't imagine what is on the cutting room floor for it to be an even more complete history of pball. Will we ever get the 9 hour director's cut? Jkjk 🙂
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Old 04-27-2020, 05:51 PM #63
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This thread took an odd turn...though I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion.

As someone who is married to a person that works heavily in documentary films, I know this labor of love was no easy feat. Thank you for doing what you could with what you had. And I can't imagine what is on the cutting room floor for it to be an even more complete history of pball. Will we ever get the 9 hour director's cut? Jkjk 🙂
The Director's Cut is already in the editing stage
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