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Old 03-30-2020, 05:48 PM #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soccerguy243 View Post
They're. Not their.

The consumers can the option to *try* and recoup their money by reselling. It might be fairly hard to convince a 3rd party that you have an event entry and pre-paid paint tickets without that party thinking it may be a scam.
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Old 03-30-2020, 06:08 PM #65
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Originally Posted by jonotwist View Post
just dont post a year later wondering where the scenarios or events have gone.

because ill post i told ya so.

Dont worry, nobody will care what you have to say next year either.
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Old 03-30-2020, 09:48 PM #66
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Originally Posted by xXILOVEMYG7Xx View Post
This is all speculation - but let's say there are 2,000 people (I have no idea how many people actually go - this number is based on reddit post) and half of them pre register. Pre-reg is what, $70.00 per person with some other package deals, etc?

Let's say half of them pre-register, that's $70,000 they have collected. "Small amount" is a very subjective term but I'm pretty certain that to most of the paintball community that's a large sum of money.

Anyways - let's assume what you are saying is true. The irrefutable right move is to say that from the get-go. People will be understandably angry when they pay for something, refused a refund and then feel like they are being lied and strung around with "reschedule" and "cancellation" BS.

This is not the only "large scale" event that has been scheduled and subsequently canceled due to the coronavirus. Think of concerts, music festivals, professional sports tournaments, weddings, etc. Compare how a majority of those were handled to how this is being handled? Consumers see this, have a "better understanding" of how this should be handled and are upset about it.
I personally know dozens of people that have paid for concerts that never happened, I also have dozens of friends with tickets to music festivals this coming summer that are all cancelled and there is also no refunds. Its a state of global pandemic, its for the greater good of public safety. Yes it not ideal but things could be much worse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tweeter4 View Post
Im going to be honest with you, what "deposits" for things? Essentially this answer is saying

"We don't want to take the hit for the deposits we made in a move to make profit as a business, so we will let the customers take the hit and call it support of a paintball business"

It is a bad look. They should take the hit and keep moving forward with next years plans and happy customers. The inconsistency is what makes it worse, they keep redacting and changing statements instead of just being transparent. No offense to this organization, but if they cant take the small bottom line hit that early deposits for this event generated for their cash flow, they shouldn't be doing these events anymore. You plan for the best and prepare for the worst. They are planning for the best and expecting the best but only for them .
I grantee this took 10 plus months of work and planing, basically a week after last years event they started over.

A quick list as its on my current plate.
-art/design fees
-porta potties rentals
-stage rentals
-sound systems, microphones, megaphones
-food vendor contracts
-paint supply contracts
-vendor contacts
-legal fees for insurance
-fence rentals
-parking barricade rentals
-volunteers volunteers volunteers
-custom made merch
-staff clothig
-banners
-prizes
-advertising

Honestly, im not going to sugar coat this but you have no clue, once you have been involved in something of this scale or larger itll give you a new outlook on this.

Anyone whos been involved in the conception and planning committees/boards for large events will all tell you its not sunshine and rainbows, its tons and tons of work and planning. All for the hope to make a few pennies at the end of the day.

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Originally Posted by Paint_hore View Post
That’s the price of doing business. Consumers shouldn’t foot the bill.
Thats how large scale events work everywhere, the pre registration/tickets of customers foot the early onset bills for getting the event going.

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Originally Posted by Phobia_11 View Post
They should stop doing events, it was a good run. 13 is a good place to leave it, maybe in a few year they can come back under a different moniker i.e., SP paintball. LOL
Thats a bizarre way of looking at things.
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Old 03-30-2020, 10:35 PM #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul77 View Post
I personally know dozens of people that have paid for concerts that never happened, I also have dozens of friends with tickets to music festivals this coming summer that are all cancelled and there is also no refunds. Its a state of global pandemic, its for the greater good of public safety. Yes it not ideal but things could be much worse.



I grantee this took 10 plus months of work and planing, basically a week after last years event they started over.

A quick list as its on my current plate.
-art/design fees
-porta potties rentals
-stage rentals
-sound systems, microphones, megaphones
-food vendor contracts
-paint supply contracts
-vendor contacts
-legal fees for insurance
-fence rentals
-parking barricade rentals
-volunteers volunteers volunteers
-custom made merch
-staff clothig
-banners
-prizes
-advertising

Honestly, im not going to sugar coat this but you have no clue, once you have been involved in something of this scale or larger itll give you a new outlook on this.

Anyone whos been involved in the conception and planning committees/boards for large events will all tell you its not sunshine and rainbows, its tons and tons of work and planning. All for the hope to make a few pennies at the end of the day.



Thats how large scale events work everywhere, the pre registration/tickets of customers foot the early onset bills for getting the event going.



Thats a bizarre way of looking at things.
What is really bizarre, is there was no Act of God clause in place for all the extensive planning. Maybe pay someone a few more pennie's to do it right, not just a reTIRED rec-ball player.
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Old 03-31-2020, 02:30 AM #68
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To compare this event to a large concert or festival is laughable, when real event planner's have at lease a terms and conditions or policy page. Not a three sentence answer in the FAQ part of the site about if you attended the event and nothing about if the event is cancelled as a whole. It is the artist and investors who foot the bill not the consumer, that is why they do not offer refunds.The event was billed as 2020 living legend's 13, not 2021 living legend's 13. They should take a page out of AirBnB's book, had a house booked but with lockdown had to cancel. We were booked one day before the cutoff and was only to get 50% back. When I called to cancel they said I was getting a full refund, now I hear the CEO is taking flac for it. As I see it now they will always have my business, as soon as this lockdown is over.
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Old 03-31-2020, 08:06 AM #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul77 View Post
I personally know dozens of people that have paid for concerts that never happened, I also have dozens of friends with tickets to music festivals this coming summer that are all cancelled and there is also no refunds. Its a state of global pandemic, its for the greater good of public safety. Yes it not ideal but things could be much worse.



I grantee this took 10 plus months of work and planing, basically a week after last years event they started over.

A quick list as its on my current plate.
-art/design fees
-porta potties rentals
-stage rentals
-sound systems, microphones, megaphones
-food vendor contracts
-paint supply contracts
-vendor contacts
-legal fees for insurance
-fence rentals
-parking barricade rentals
-volunteers volunteers volunteers
-custom made merch
-staff clothig
-banners
-prizes
-advertising

Honestly, im not going to sugar coat this but you have no clue, once you have been involved in something of this scale or larger itll give you a new outlook on this.

Anyone whos been involved in the conception and planning committees/boards for large events will all tell you its not sunshine and rainbows, its tons and tons of work and planning. All for the hope to make a few pennies at the end of the day.



Thats how large scale events work everywhere, the pre registration/tickets of customers foot the early onset bills for getting the event going.



Thats a bizarre way of looking at things.

That above list is literal pennies compared to my daily management budget. I understand what goes into event planning. This event is in no form of the word “large” if the above minor costs is going to sink this event, then they need to refund the money and be sunk.

I mean take off the blinders and actually consider the real dollar cost of your list alone. It is nothing.

As said multiple times, it is not the burden of the consumer to absorb the cost of the business. How dare they decide to be a for profit event until things go wrong, then they want to leave the consumer holding the bag
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Old 03-31-2020, 09:07 AM #70
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The National bank of " paintball players" gave a " no interest/no payment 12 month loan to this business

On behalf f of that business, thank you for paying my bills out of your pocket
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Old 03-31-2020, 09:48 AM #71
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I personally know dozens of people that have paid for concerts that never happened, I also have dozens of friends with tickets to music festivals this coming summer that are all cancelled and there is also no refunds. Its a state of global pandemic, its for the greater good of public safety. Yes it not ideal but things could be much worse.
If your friends bought tickets via Ticketmaster or another reputable site make sure they are aware of Ticketmasters response.

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Old 03-31-2020, 09:48 AM #72
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Just to throw this out there... my wife works in travel insurance. I had a little talk with her about this subject last night. There's actually travel insurance that's out there that could protect against a catastrophic event that cancels an event where there's a no refunds clause. There's a rider called CFAR - Cancel For Any Reason. That would have covered those who were going to this event. I just quoted out coverage for a $300 trip that came up to $75 in insurance cost, and would cover a whole bunch of things. Worth it? Not sure, everyone's different. Everyone's trip is different, I didn't include any of the actual travel in that, picked driving and didn't put anything in for the cost of driving there, or hotels, or anything like that. Disclaimer - I am not a travel agent, nor am I an insurance provider/agent.

That said, CPX Events could have very easily said "hey, this is well out of our hands, the event can't be put on, so sorry, no refunds, not our fault or problem". They didn't do that. They gave everyone who pre-registered some options on ways to still have an experience, or at least not be out the funds. There's going to be people who want to pick up an entry and/or paint for upcoming events, it's not going to be hard to sell those entries off if someone opts for that.
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Old 03-31-2020, 09:50 AM #73
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Just to throw this out there... my wife works in travel insurance. I had a little talk with her about this subject last night. There's actually travel insurance that's out there that could protect against a catastrophic event that cancels an event where there's a no refunds clause. There's a rider called CFAR - Cancel For Any Reason. That would have covered those who were going to this event. I just quoted out coverage for a $300 trip that came up to $75 in insurance cost, and would cover a whole bunch of things. Worth it? Not sure, everyone's different. Everyone's trip is different, I didn't include any of the actual travel in that, picked driving and didn't put anything in for the cost of driving there, or hotels, or anything like that. Disclaimer - I am not a travel agent, nor am I an insurance provider/agent.

That said, CPX Events could have very easily said "hey, this is well out of our hands, the event can't be put on, so sorry, no refunds, not our fault or problem". They didn't do that. They gave everyone who pre-registered some options on ways to still have an experience, or at least not be out the funds. There's going to be people who want to pick up an entry and/or paint for upcoming events, it's not going to be hard to sell those entries off if someone opts for that.
But...they did
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Old 03-31-2020, 09:56 AM #74
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A no refunds policy isn't unusual for events. They could have just moved on to the next event. They didn't do that. They offered for people to use their registration at another event, let it ride until Living Legends 13 in 2021, or sell their registration to someone else going to another event. If someone really needs their money back, don't you think there's someone out there who wouldn't mind buying up a registration and paint from someone who's selling one?
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Old 03-31-2020, 10:02 AM #75
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A no refunds policy isn't unusual for events. They could have just moved on to the next event. They didn't do that. They offered for people to use their registration at another event, let it ride until Living Legends 13 in 2021, or sell their registration to someone else going to another event. If someone really needs their money back, don't you think there's someone out there who wouldn't mind buying up a registration and paint from someone who's selling one?
I don't know. There might be. Given the current economic situation and the black eye this has give LL I would presume that there are far less than you think there are. I don't know many paintballers who are dying to buy LL registration for an event that is a year away when most of the US can't even play paintball and unemployment is skyrocketing.

The event was canceled. A "no refunds policy" carries ethical and likely legal concerns.
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Old 03-31-2020, 11:29 AM #76
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Its likely they can't get refunded from their contracts so they can refund the tickets. Just like you think they are "screwing you over", they are likely getting the same treatment from the company's they are using. A local event here can't get money back on porta potties, stage rental, etc... only being allowed to use it at a later date.

I'd like to know how many people had registered. We are still 2 months out, and no offense, but if you registered in the last month or two you should have known better. Early bird prices were until February 21st, and by then it was a global outbreak. Less than a week later it was confirmed in the US, stocks had crashed, Italy was overran, etc...

So I will assume most people paid $55 for their registration(not including paint).
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Old 03-31-2020, 11:45 AM #77
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I don't know. There might be. Given the current economic situation and the black eye this has give LL I would presume that there are far less than you think there are. I don't know many paintballers who are dying to buy LL registration for an event that is a year away when most of the US can't even play paintball and unemployment is skyrocketing.

The event was canceled. A "no refunds policy" carries ethical and likely legal concerns.
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Old 03-31-2020, 12:13 PM #78
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What is really bizarre, is there was no Act of God clause in place for all the extensive planning. Maybe pay someone a few more pennie's to do it right, not just a reTIRED rec-ball player.
who? you? hah.

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Originally Posted by Ford View Post
Caveat emptor?

*edit*
I find it hard to suggest in such a bizarre situation that there is a hard/true right and wrong way to handle this scenario. It seems if I argue too hard on one side, I'm too sympathetic with X but if I lean the other I have no empathy with Y.

It's a crap scenario all around.
trust me, all i said was "it was even handed", and a bunch of babies get triggered like a tumblr femnist who just heard the three words, white straight male.


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registration I understand. Paint not so much.
Ill agree there, the paint is a tangible resource and can be liquidated in other ways that dont leave the cutomers footing the bill. if the paint tickets are still valid elsewhere, maybe. but the pant is a physical product. no product, no charge.

but then some moron will say, "wut bout the reggo being a product" yes a moron may say that, but i clearly set a standard that the paint is a physical tangible product, and the registration not so much.

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Dont worry, nobody will care what you have to say next year either.
precisely. you get it. no one cares. I just happen to be amused at the stream of urine and turds flying from many of these keyboards out of my screen.

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Originally Posted by BIGCAN-RULES View Post
The National bank of " paintball players" gave a " no interest/no payment 12 month loan to this business

On behalf f of that business, thank you for paying my bills out of your pocket
... lol thats funny. no sarcasm.

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Originally Posted by xXILOVEMYG7Xx View Post
But...they did
no... again you ignored the options and assumed that there was no option.
the phrase i can explain it to you but i cant understand it for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xXILOVEMYG7Xx View Post
I don't know. There might be. Given the current economic situation and the black eye this has give LL I would presume that there are far less than you think there are.

The event was canceled. A "no refunds policy" carries ethical and likely legal concerns.
well at last someone could explain it it in a way you found palatable.
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Old 03-31-2020, 01:28 PM #79
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Thats how large scale events work everywhere, the pre registration/tickets of customers foot the early onset bills for getting the event going.
Yeah, no ****. Point is the event is not going on as planned.

CPX had 12 LL events among many other smaller ones and people play every weekend. If one cancelled event puts them into bankruptcy then they need a better business model. All those expenses you pointed out are a KNOWN expense from the previous 12 games.

Im sure the vendors paid to be there so where is that money?
What about the companys that help sponsor the event?

You act like CPX only gets money from the players.
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Old 03-31-2020, 01:33 PM #80
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who? you? hah.


trust me, all i said was "it was even handed", and a bunch of babies get triggered like a tumblr femnist who just heard the three words, white straight male.



Ill agree there, the paint is a tangible resource and can be liquidated in other ways that dont leave the cutomers footing the bill. if the paint tickets are still valid elsewhere, maybe. but the pant is a physical product. no product, no charge.

but then some moron will say, "wut bout the reggo being a product" yes a moron may say that, but i clearly set a standard that the paint is a physical tangible product, and the registration not so much.



precisely. you get it. no one cares. I just happen to be amused at the stream of urine and turds flying from many of these keyboards out of my screen.


... lol thats funny. no sarcasm.


no... again you ignored the options and assumed that there was no option.
the phrase i can explain it to you but i cant understand it for you.


well at lase someone could explain it it in a way you found palatable.
You live in an alternate reality my friend
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Old 03-31-2020, 02:10 PM #81
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You live in an alternate reality my friend
yes, different from yours.
one where things that happen stay happened; transience and causual nature.

as opposed to yours where events get to be cherry picked before being entered into your preferred world view.
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Old 03-31-2020, 02:12 PM #82
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yes, different from yours.
one where things that happen stay happened; transience and causual nature.

as opposed to yours where events get to be cherry picked before being entered into your preferred world view.
If that's what helps you sleep at night without your meds, then yes.
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Old 03-31-2020, 02:16 PM #83
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All those expenses you pointed out are a KNOWN expense from the previous 12 games.
All 12 of those games also included KNOWN revenue streams.

I get we are trying to suggest they should have planned ahead for an outbreak or other, 'plagues of Egypt' type events interfering with this year's game... If you predicted Coronavirus on your hindsight-20/20 bingo board, you win a bingo!

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The National bank of " paintball players" gave a no interest/no payment 12 month loan to this business
I cannot think of a worse gallery of rogues one could work with or for. =P
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Old 03-31-2020, 02:50 PM #84
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A no refunds policy isn't unusual for events. They could have just moved on to the next event. They didn't do that. They offered for people to use their registration at another event, let it ride until Living Legends 13 in 2021, or sell their registration to someone else going to another event. If someone really needs their money back, don't you think there's someone out there who wouldn't mind buying up a registration and paint from someone who's selling one?
Okay, great. I don't want to use it and I can sell my ticket. Will LL also be selling additional tickets and competing with me? Why would a consumer pay me the full price for my ticket when they can just buy the ticket through LL?

Also, maybe they aren't getting refunded for some expenses, that doesn't make it acceptable to pass that loss on to your customers. I'm assuming they plan these events to make money, period. They don't do it out of the goodness of their heart, unfortunately. That's the risk of running a business. That's the risk LL signed up for. If you lose money you don't pass that loss on to your customer. The customer shouldn't share your business risk.

I buy an iPhone because I want the product. I don't buy an iPhone and expect to participate in Apple's business risks. If I wanted to do that, I'd buy Apple stock. Unfortunately, no consumers own any part of LL and have no right to be subject to the business risks of LL. They bought tickets, not parts of the business. It just doesn't make sense. When LL made money (presumably) over the last X number of years did they share that with customers? Then why share losses?
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