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Old 02-26-2020, 12:43 PM #22
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I'm hoping that your guess is true! I know if that's the case, then markers could stay out on field longer which would be ideal for a player like myself who does scenario/rec ball!
That claim is *highly* questionable, as the volume of air used per shot is dictated by the marker's bolt/valve system and how "deep" a marker can shoot into a bottle is a function of the marker's operating pressure and its HPR's piston area, not the tank reg's setpoint (or really anything to do with the tank reg).

If they're truly claiming that their tank regulator can improve a marker's efficiency, they're either full of crap or have made a groundbreaking discovery.
A key, selective word was used and that word being *Hoping.* I'm *hopeful* that this new Regulator does allow players to maximize efficiency. Of course, the internal regulators of markers will also play into the equation.
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Old 02-26-2020, 01:24 PM #23
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Made in USA?
As far as the carbon fiber bottle being produced in the U.S.A I'm not too sure.
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Old 02-26-2020, 02:52 PM #24
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As far as the carbon fiber bottle being produced in the U.S.A I'm not too sure.

The Aura Regulator is not. Confirmed by ImmortalAir Email
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Old 02-26-2020, 02:59 PM #25
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Made in USA?
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As far as the carbon fiber bottle being produced in the U.S.A I'm not too sure.
As far as i know the tanks are made by ams composite cylinders, same as first strikes. the company is based in england but manufacturing is in tiawan. this can be seen on those tanks by the designation "TW AMS"
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Old 02-26-2020, 03:14 PM #26
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As far as i know the tanks are made by ams composite cylinders, same as first strikes. the company is based in england but manufacturing is in tiawan. this can be seen on those tanks by the designation "TW AMS"
what do you personally think of these tanks?
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Old 02-26-2020, 03:53 PM #27
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what do you personally think of these tanks?
i like them, they are light enough. the finish is nice and smooth, the global rating is nice. and the extended lifespan is a bonus. the neck is well done. no real difference in weights between this and ninja sl's/empire mega lite/hk extra aerolite/valken zero g, all the same gayston made light bottle .

I think its a quality bottle and thats why i have a 68 hero2 w/powerhouse on it around.
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Old 02-26-2020, 06:43 PM #28
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i like them, they are light enough. the finish is nice and smooth, the global rating is nice. and the extended lifespan is a bonus. the neck is well done. no real difference in weights between this and ninja sl's/empire mega lite/hk extra aerolite/valken zero g, all the same gayston made light bottle .

I think its a quality bottle and thats why i have a 68 hero2 w/powerhouse on it around.

Comparing the Immortal Air 68 (1.96lbs) and 77 (2.06lbs) to the like size Ninja bottles.

The 68 SL tanks are 4-5oz lighter and the 68 sl2 is 7-8oz lighter.
The 77 SL is about 2-3oz lighter and 77 sl2 is 5-6oz lighter.

Pretty big difference in price too though.

Last edited by d33p : 02-27-2020 at 04:51 AM.
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Old 02-26-2020, 06:55 PM #29
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The 68 SL tanks are 4-5oz lighter and the 68 sl2 is 7-8oz lighter.
The 77 SL is about 2-3oz lighter and 77 sl2 is 5-6oz lighter.

Pretty big difference in price too though.
Lighter than what? What are you comparing here?

There is no way the Gayston 68sl is a 1/4lb lighter than my hero 68, I donít have time to check them tonight but I will, I have both and they are pritínear the same. I also have a Luxfer 70 here, the og light tank and a Gayston 80sl.
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Old 02-26-2020, 10:01 PM #30
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As far as the carbon fiber bottle being produced in the U.S.A I'm not too sure.

The Aura Regulator is not. Confirmed by ImmortalAir Email
Good to know. Thank you for letting the thread know.
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Old 02-26-2020, 10:03 PM #31
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Me personally I'm excited mostly to get a bottle that will last longer than 15 years for it's life. Not only that, but to support a brand I've known in the sport for a long time that happens to be based in my home state. Coincidentally Ninja is also based in Illinois! But I do like my Immortal Air Bottle I currently have and why mess with a good thing?
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Old 02-26-2020, 10:39 PM #32
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Whatís the difference between the Aura Ascentô and the Auraô? Because thereís nothing on their website regarding the Ascent...

Also, has anyone used any of these regs? Theyíre claiming an up to 30% (?!) increase in efficiency. This is wild. If +30% is what people are actually getting, Iím hopping aboard this ship.
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I would like to understand how a tank reg can make a Luxe 2.0 30% more efficient ... or a Geo, or a DM, or C6 ...

Can anyone explain that? I would really like to know if that is possible.
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Old 02-27-2020, 04:47 AM #33
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Lighter than what? What are you comparing here?

There is no way the Gayston 68sl is a 1/4lb lighter than my hero 68, I donít have time to check them tonight but I will, I have both and they are pritínear the same. I also have a Luxfer 70 here, the og light tank and a Gayston 80sl.

Im comparing them to the like size immortal air bottles. ANSgear has a bunch of videos showing bottle weights. Here is a nice one that should answer your questions....I dont know who makes the immortal bottle but they list weights on the website.


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Old 02-27-2020, 10:42 AM #34
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Im comparing them to the like size immortal air bottles. ANSgear has a bunch of videos showing bottle weights. Here is a nice one that should answer your questions....I dont know who makes the immortal bottle but they list weights on the website.
I do know quite a bit about bottles and know what they should weigh. Im in contact with most manufacturers fairly regularly.

i knew something was wrong here for the 68IL. taken right from immortals site, it couldnt weigh 10oz more than a 68sl.

"Please Note: Product weight shown is for shipping purposes and does not reflect actual product weight"
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Old 02-27-2020, 06:08 PM #35
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I do know quite a bit about bottles and know what they should weigh. Im in contact with most manufacturers fairly regularly.

i knew something was wrong here for the 68IL. taken right from immortals site, it couldnt weigh 10oz more than a 68sl.

"Please Note: Product weight shown is for shipping purposes and does not reflect actual product weight"
Where do you get 10oz? 68sl is 1lb11oz and IA is ~2lbs so that is 4-5oz which is entirely possible.

Not sure why they would list shipping weights.....sounds dumb af if you are promoting a lightweight tank. I guess until someone buys it and weighs it we will never know for sure.
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Old 02-27-2020, 09:19 PM #36
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So a lot of people have been asking how Immortal Air can get you up to 30% more shots per tank. So I'm here to help explain it. I worked for Dan Colby for many years, both at Air America, and at Guerrilla Air, and while I still cannot figure out the secrets that he was able to accomplish this, I know what is happening.

All Regulators have a decay curve, in other words, the pressure the reg ouputs at 4500PSI, is not the same as it is at 1000 PSI. Most manufactures set the regs to whatever pressure they advertise at 4500PSI, and as the pressure in the bottle drops (regulator input pressure) the pressure in the regulator also changes. There are "balanced" regulators that do a better job of minimizing the drop off effect, but no one has been able to miniaturize a true balanced regulator for paintball yet.

D33P pretty much hit the nail on the head in that you can go deeper into the bottle than others.
So when your reg is supposed to output 550PSI, it may only output 200psi when you drop below 1000psi (actual result from back around 2004 of non DC reg). The AURA reg is able to constantly hold that working pressure far longer, and while I've been out of paintball manufacturing for about a decade now, I would assume that it would hold closer to 500psi until it reaches around that pressure, then drops with bottle pressure.

Now, keep in mind, most markers have multiple regs these days... so why does this matter? simple, same principal applies to this regulator, as the output from the tank drops, the input to the secondary reg drops, and the pressure again drops to the marker, until it drops to an unusable amount.

So, is it possible for a more balanced regulator to get you more usable shots from the same tank... YES.

The more efficient the marker, the more you would notice it, I doubt a Tippmann 98 would notice more than a a few dozen shots, but on something like an axe (yes I know its not the most efficient) you may see 3 or 4 more pods before its shooting too slow to be a usable shot.

So, to the naysayers, I would say this, look online, there are reviews of people testing same bottle, same marker, and getting more shots from an immortal air reg. I would imagine the 30% would heavily depend on what you are shooting, and what reg you are comparing it to (Thinking the really cheap regs are more the 30%) but I have gotten about 15% more on my marker than with the Pure energy reg I had to test against.
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Old 02-27-2020, 09:34 PM #37
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So a lot of people have been asking how Immortal Air can get you up to 30% more shots per tank. So I'm here to help explain it. I worked for Dan Colby for many years, both at Air America, and at Guerrilla Air, and while I still cannot figure out the secrets that he was able to accomplish this, I know what is happening.

All Regulators have a decay curve, in other words, the pressure the reg ouputs at 4500PSI, is not the same as it is at 1000 PSI. Most manufactures set the regs to whatever pressure they advertise at 4500PSI, and as the pressure in the bottle drops (regulator input pressure) the pressure in the regulator also changes. There are "balanced" regulators that do a better job of minimizing the drop off effect, but no one has been able to miniaturize a true balanced regulator for paintball yet.

D33P pretty much hit the nail on the head in that you can go deeper into the bottle than others.
So when your reg is supposed to output 550PSI, it may only output 200psi when you drop below 1000psi (actual result from back around 2004 of non DC reg). The AURA reg is able to constantly hold that working pressure far longer, and while I've been out of paintball manufacturing for about a decade now, I would assume that it would hold closer to 500psi until it reaches around that pressure, then drops with bottle pressure.

Now, keep in mind, most markers have multiple regs these days... so why does this matter? simple, same principal applies to this regulator, as the output from the tank drops, the input to the secondary reg drops, and the pressure again drops to the marker, until it drops to an unusable amount.

So, is it possible for a more balanced regulator to get you more usable shots from the same tank... YES.

The more efficient the marker, the more you would notice it, I doubt a Tippmann 98 would notice more than a a few dozen shots, but on something like an axe (yes I know its not the most efficient) you may see 3 or 4 more pods before its shooting too slow to be a usable shot.

So, to the naysayers, I would say this, look online, there are reviews of people testing same bottle, same marker, and getting more shots from an immortal air reg. I would imagine the 30% would heavily depend on what you are shooting, and what reg you are comparing it to (Thinking the really cheap regs are more the 30%) but I have gotten about 15% more on my marker than with the Pure energy reg I had to test against.

Iíve been around long enough that I know if Dan Colby says something then itís probably true. I bought one because Dan is and always has been a stand up guy. Air America tanks were the best ones you could buy 20 years ago and I have no doubt theyíre still the best ones. I say that as a guy who was sponsored by Nitro Duck for 5 years and from talking to the guys there they said the Air America stuff was the best. He also sent me a whole bunch of free stickers and patches a few weeks ago because I asked to replace one that was on an old toolbox I got rid of. I asked for one and got a whole pile of them.
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Old 02-28-2020, 05:03 AM #38
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I seriously doubt that any Marker would ever get 30% extra efficiency from a Tank Regulator unless the previous design was atrocious and had a ton of weird/small airflow-paths and this new version has smoother and higher-flow airflow paths.

“Balancing” the Tank Regulator should help it shoot a little bit further into the Tank, but I never noticed much difference between a Hero Reg and the Dye DTS (which is “balanced”).

Almost all video “performance tests” are skewed by bias.

Not trying to knock Immortal Air, just believe in realistic advertising not hype...
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Old 02-28-2020, 07:41 AM #39
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Balderdash.

I'll gladly test this. You send me the tank and I'll buy the paint. I have plenty of markers to choose from.

Open offer for Immortal. Until proven with a solid, controlled test I don't buy those claims. They simply go against logic.
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Old 02-28-2020, 08:24 AM #40
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Old 02-28-2020, 09:17 AM #41
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Originally Posted by p8ntballsteve View Post
So a lot of people have been asking how Immortal Air can get you up to 30% more shots per tank. So I'm here to help explain it. I worked for Dan Colby for many years, both at Air America, and at Guerrilla Air, and while I still cannot figure out the secrets that he was able to accomplish this, I know what is happening.

All Regulators have a decay curve, in other words, the pressure the reg ouputs at 4500PSI, is not the same as it is at 1000 PSI. Most manufactures set the regs to whatever pressure they advertise at 4500PSI, and as the pressure in the bottle drops (regulator input pressure) the pressure in the regulator also changes. There are "balanced" regulators that do a better job of minimizing the drop off effect, but no one has been able to miniaturize a true balanced regulator for paintball yet.

D33P pretty much hit the nail on the head in that you can go deeper into the bottle than others.
So when your reg is supposed to output 550PSI, it may only output 200psi when you drop below 1000psi (actual result from back around 2004 of non DC reg). The AURA reg is able to constantly hold that working pressure far longer, and while I've been out of paintball manufacturing for about a decade now, I would assume that it would hold closer to 500psi until it reaches around that pressure, then drops with bottle pressure.

Now, keep in mind, most markers have multiple regs these days... so why does this matter? simple, same principal applies to this regulator, as the output from the tank drops, the input to the secondary reg drops, and the pressure again drops to the marker, until it drops to an unusable amount.

So, is it possible for a more balanced regulator to get you more usable shots from the same tank... YES.

The more efficient the marker, the more you would notice it, I doubt a Tippmann 98 would notice more than a a few dozen shots, but on something like an axe (yes I know its not the most efficient) you may see 3 or 4 more pods before its shooting too slow to be a usable shot.

So, to the naysayers, I would say this, look online, there are reviews of people testing same bottle, same marker, and getting more shots from an immortal air reg. I would imagine the 30% would heavily depend on what you are shooting, and what reg you are comparing it to (Thinking the really cheap regs are more the 30%) but I have gotten about 15% more on my marker than with the Pure energy reg I had to test against.
I normally don't like to add fuel to any fire, but this is absolutely, 100% absurd, and goes against physics. Maybe I am being too absolute, but this claim does not seem to meet the definition of efficiency.

A marker's efficiency is based mainly on the operating pressure it takes to accelerate a paintball down the barrel at 285-300fps. Weather, paint to barrel match, type of barrel (unported barrels are efficient but super loud) the consistency of paint, the condition of the marker, etc all play into efficiency.

A tank regulator simply supplies the pressure needed to operate the marker. The tank has a fixed volume of air that this regulator feeds into the marker. A regulator cannot increase this volume of usable air, nor can it change the marker's effective operating pressure needed to shoot paint at serviceable velocity.

The only way to get "more" shots out of a tank due to regulator design is to decrease the amount of air supplied to the marker, thus using less air. This would yield more shots technically, but not at usable velocity.

If the regulator operates as you have said, keeping a stable pressure regardless of tank pressure, you are speaking of the regulators ability to consistently provide the same pressure to the marker. That isn't going to effect efficiency in a positive manner. if anything, that means instead of pushing 225psi into a marker when you are down to 1000 psi tank, you are still pushing 550psi, which is in effect MORE air.

Let me put it into some simple numbers.

Say a marker gets 1800 usable shots off of a 68/4500. Each shot would use .037% of the volume of that tank. That volume is the requirement of the marker.

You claim that this marker would now get an additional 540 shots out of that same 68/4500 tank. That would be 2340 shots. That is a 30% increase. That means that the same marker is now somehow capable of reaching the same velocity, but only using .029% of the volume of the tank?. That doesn't add up.

The same 1800 shots at a 15% increase is 2070 shots, which is still a huge increase at the same velocity. That means the marker is requiring .032% of the volume of the tank to reach velocity.

That is impossible for any regulator to accomplish this at the same velocity.

Marker upgrades like bolts, barrels, new engines, etc. struggle to provide measurable increases in efficiency (unless the stock components are absolutely horrible). A tank regulator is NOT going to provide that much of a boost. The tank regulator cannot change the amount of pressure required by a marker to accelerate the paintball at acceptable velocity.
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Old 02-28-2020, 10:05 AM #42
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I normally don't like to add fuel to any fire, but this is absolutely, 100% absurd, and goes against physics. Maybe I am being too absolute, but this claim does not seem to meet the definition of efficiency.

A marker's efficiency is based mainly on the operating pressure it takes to accelerate a paintball down the barrel at 285-300fps. Weather, paint to barrel match, type of barrel (unported barrels are efficient but super loud) the consistency of paint, the condition of the marker, etc all play into efficiency.

A tank regulator simply supplies the pressure needed to operate the marker. The tank has a fixed volume of air that this regulator feeds into the marker. A regulator cannot increase this volume of usable air, nor can it change the marker's effective operating pressure needed to shoot paint at serviceable velocity.

The only way to get "more" shots out of a tank due to regulator design is to decrease the amount of air supplied to the marker, thus using less air. This would yield more shots technically, but not at usable velocity.

If the regulator operates as you have said, keeping a stable pressure regardless of tank pressure, you are speaking of the regulators ability to consistently provide the same pressure to the marker. That isn't going to effect efficiency in a positive manner. if anything, that means instead of pushing 225psi into a marker when you are down to 1000 psi tank, you are still pushing 550psi, which is in effect MORE air.

Let me put it into some simple numbers.

Say a marker gets 1800 usable shots off of a 68/4500. Each shot would use .037% of the volume of that tank. That volume is the requirement of the marker.

You claim that this marker would now get an additional 540 shots out of that same 68/4500 tank. That would be 2340 shots. That is a 30% increase. That means that the same marker is now somehow capable of reaching the same velocity, but only using .029% of the volume of the tank?. That doesn't add up.

The same 1800 shots at a 15% increase is 2070 shots, which is still a huge increase at the same velocity. That means the marker is requiring .032% of the volume of the tank to reach velocity.

That is impossible for any regulator to accomplish this at the same velocity.

Marker upgrades like bolts, barrels, new engines, etc. struggle to provide measurable increases in efficiency (unless the stock components are absolutely horrible). A tank regulator is NOT going to provide that much of a boost. The tank regulator cannot change the amount of pressure required by a marker to accelerate the paintball at acceptable velocity.
A couple quick things.

Pressure and volume are inversely related.

Their argument is that the efficiency gain is realized toward the end of the bottle, at least that's how I'm seeing it. They're stating that the marker will be able to more effectively shoot deeper into the tank (say when there's 500 psi remaining, able to shoot down to 200 psi) instead of sputtering out at 500 psi.

I'm with you there - that's nonsensical, since a marker's "depth ability" vs. another marker is more a function of operating pressure (if my marker's valve needs 100 psi vs. another marker needing 200 psi, then that buys me some time) and the marker's HPR piston design, mainly area. The larger the piston, the better demand communication between it and the tank reg (reg ratio).

Once a tank's pressure drops to or below the tank reg's setpoint, it's not like the pressure entering the marker's HPR is feeding significantly slower. In essence, the tank reg is just being bypassed at that point.

I'm going to need a much better, more accurate description from Mr. Colby and a controlled test proving this theory to make me budge. I'd also love to see *any* example of a marker gaining a true 30% increase by using their tank vs. another tank of the same size and fill. If it can be claimed then it should be proven.
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