[ThePhenomenon]

Hi all (first post)

Ok so heres what I know.

Dye DM's are Dye Matrix's. Example Dye DM14, (beautiful) simple right? Ok.

But then you have PM's (I'm confused(. Proto Matrix's. Theres PMR's, 'the' PMR, PM5, PM6, PM7, Proto Rail MaXXed, Proto Reflex rail).

So my questions;

Is the Proto MaXXed rail a "PMR". If not, what is it called (for example PRMax?)

Is the Proto Reflex Rail considered a PMR? Or is it a PRR?

Is there an order or is everything a "PMR". For example..PMR(2005-2007) Proto MaXXed rail (2007-2010) Proto Reflex rail (2010-2014)

What Im asking on that last question is, has the "PMR" line 'finished', or are Proto guns in a 'timeline'.

My main reason being that I go on a website and it says "yeah this is for the PM7". Is that a Proto rail 2007, Proto Reflex rail 2007. What the **** does PM7 mean ? Theres 3 different Proto lines for **** sake?

Cheers thanks for any clarity.

[monkeyballer099639]

Good question.

For some history, in 2005, Proto (sister company to Dye) released the Proto Matrix, usually referred to as the PM5. In 2006 , they released another one, called the PM6, just like how Dye releases a new DM every year. They released the Proto Matrix from 2005 - 2008, ending with the PM8. However, likely because Dye did not want two markers competing for the same business, they released the Proto Matrix in 2007, which was like how the reflex is today being based off the DM design but without the additional features and higher end parts (barrel, board, asa). In 2011 ( I believe) they released the Proto Reflex Rail, which became the mid level marker and the Proto Rail became an entry level marker.

A PM7 should be for the Proto Matrix 2007 marker, which would have been a high end at its time.

[Kirko017]

Originally Posted by ThePhenomenon

Hi all (first post)

Ok so heres what I know.

Dye DM's are Dye Matrix's. Example Dye DM14, (beautiful) simple right? Ok.

But then you have PM's (I'm confused(. Proto Matrix's. Theres PMR's, 'the' PMR, PM5, PM6, PM7, Proto Rail MaXXed, Proto Reflex rail).

So my questions;

Is the Proto MaXXed rail a "PMR". If not, what is it called (for example PRMax?)

Is the Proto Reflex Rail considered a PMR? Or is it a PRR?

Is there an order or is everything a "PMR". For example..PMR(2005-2007) Proto MaXXed rail (2007-2010) Proto Reflex rail (2010-2014)

What Im asking on that last question is, has the "PMR" line 'finished', or are Proto guns in a 'timeline'.

My main reason being that I go on a website and it says "yeah this is for the PM7". Is that a Proto rail 2007, Proto Reflex rail 2007. What the **** does PM7 mean ? Theres 3 different Proto lines for **** sake?

Cheers thanks for any clarity.

___Timeline___
2005-2008: Proto Matrix (PM5, PM6, PM7, PM8) [was a DM with LPR in front]

2007-2010: Proto Matrix Rail (PMR) [PM without the LPR]

2011-Present: Proto Reflex Rail (Reflex) [The new updated, renamed PMR]

2008-2010: Proto SLG (SLG) [Entry Level Proto]

2011-Present: Proto Rail (Rail) [Substitute Entry Level Proto to the SLG]

2014-Present Proto Maxxed Rail (Maxxed Rail) [Updated version of Rail]

[eforce]

Originally Posted by ThePhenomenon

Hi all (first post)

Ok so heres what I know.

Dye DM's are Dye Matrix's. Example Dye DM14, (beautiful) simple right? Ok.

But then you have PM's (I'm confused(. Proto Matrix's. Theres PMR's, 'the' PMR, PM5, PM6, PM7, Proto Rail MaXXed, Proto Reflex rail).

So my questions;

Is the Proto MaXXed rail a "PMR". If not, what is it called (for example PRMax?)

Is the Proto Reflex Rail considered a PMR? Or is it a PRR?

Is there an order or is everything a "PMR". For example..PMR(2005-2007) Proto MaXXed rail (2007-2010) Proto Reflex rail (2010-2014)

What Im asking on that last question is, has the "PMR" line 'finished', or are Proto guns in a 'timeline'.

My main reason being that I go on a website and it says "yeah this is for the PM7". Is that a Proto rail 2007, Proto Reflex rail 2007. What the **** does PM7 mean ? Theres 3 different Proto lines for **** sake?

Cheers thanks for any clarity.

DM stands for Dye Matrix as you assumed - hence it being silly when people say "Dye DM" because they're actually saying "Dye Dye Matrix".

Dye and Proto are the same company. From 2005 to 2008, a matrix was released under the Proto name. This was not the type you see today - it was more or less a cheaper version of the corresponding DM of the same model year with different milling. These were referred to as PM5, PM6, PM7, PM8. They had all metal construction, low pressure regulators (LPR), and on/off ASA's. While there are many reasons floating around as to why Dye decided to cease production of the higher end Proto Matrix line, all you need to know is that in 2008 they stopped making the PM8 and never released a PM9. The PM(Number) naming convention is never used to refer to the Rail. Anyone that does is simply confusing the two.

In 2007, a lower end matrix was released under the Proto name, called the Proto Matrix Rail (PMR). This had many plastic parts, a simplified bolt system, and no LPR. It was intended to expand Dye's market share to the low/mid end buyers that couldn't afford a PM7/8 or the even more expensive DM series. The reflex rail (still called a PMR) made some of the nicer parts standard but was more or less the same design concept.

The maXXed platform was then released, which is a stripped down Reflex Rail with a lower performance solenoid. Again, it's more or less the same design, just with reduced performance.

[craigert]

I had a 2007 PMR which is not the same as the PM7. Let me know if you have any specific questions when ordering parts. It can be quite confusing.

Basically, the PMR was good through 2010. After that, everything except a DM is a piece of plastic ****.

[PBBlastah]

I'm so glad someone made a thread to clear this up...props to you guys

[PBBlastah]

If someone could clarify what the differences are between the PM5, PM6, PM7, PM8, and their Dye counterparts, that would also be great.

[craigert]

Today you have the Rail, Reflex Rail, DM.
Before you had the PMR, PM, DM.
Each one uses different parts, although technology seems to get passed down the line to some degree.

The PMR became just the Rail. The PM became the Reflex Rail. The DM remains the DM.

[craigert]

Btw..I don't know what the Maxxed crap is about because I upgraded to a DM and Luxe and called it a day. Get out of the Rail, Reflex, Maxxed world is all I can say. The DM is great.

[PBBlastah]

With all due respect, that doesn't answer my question. My impression is that that the PM and DM line both use the same design platform, but are different in other ways? Is that correct? One way or another, it would help if you specifically addressed the differences between the original proto matrix (NOT the rail, I know the rail is a totally different thing) and the dye matrix line, if that makes sense.

[craigert]

Aha...ok that is getting a bit out of my realm with the specific differences for each year. I don't believe that any parts are interchangeable between the PM line and the DM line though.

[kyle4236]

Pm and Dm are like name brand vs store brand. DM is dyes performance brand designed to cater to the high end players. Those who know how to use and will get full use out of the high price tag gun. With the high price tag comes better reliability, better efficiency, better accuracy and the newest technology. The pm 5,6,7 etc... series caters to the low end market with about 1-2 year old tech, lower quality parts and more plastic. Essentially the pm series is nothing more than an Older dye gun shoved into a cheaper frame. For example dye came out with the ultra lite grip frames on the dm6 yet the pm series didn't get the ultra lite frames until the pm8. PM is just cheap obsolete dye. Aside from board parts, some prints and maybe an eye wire across maybe one or 2 years and some o rings no real hard parts are interchangeable between pm and dm

[swiftreprisal]

Maybe this will help!

For DM's: https://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3693410

For the Proto: ...this is a little more trickey. The Protos (PM5-8) were really just 'smaller' DM's. They were so similar, in fact, that the similarity started eating sales away from the DM line, hence the spawning of the different kinds of Protos.

[ChanceStad]

Originally Posted by kyle4236

Pm and Dm are like name brand vs store brand. DM is dyes performance brand designed to cater to the high end players. Those who know how to use and will get full use out of the high price tag gun. With the high price tag comes better reliability, better efficiency, better accuracy and the newest technology. The pm 5,6,7 etc... series caters to the low end market with about 1-2 year old tech, lower quality parts and more plastic. Essentially the pm series is nothing more than an Older dye gun shoved into a cheaper frame. For example dye came out with the ultra lite grip frames on the dm6 yet the pm series didn't get the ultra lite frames until the pm8. PM is just cheap obsolete dye. Aside from board parts, some prints and maybe an eye wire across maybe one or 2 years and some o rings no real hard parts are interchangeable between pm and dm

While you are right about the DM being marketed as higher end, you are flat out wrong about them using older obsolete parts. Yes, it took til the PM8 to get the ultralite, but the PM8 was the first gun to have the new bolt and eye pipe, before the Dm9. The HPR was identical, as was the bolt, though certain years used different back caps and top hats (you can put the internals of a PM7 into a DM10, and vice versa. LPR is the same design, although I'm not sure what years, if any, are interchangeable. The LPR location on the PM series is a better functioning location than on the DM line, because the air doesn't have to travel nearly as far inside the gun, although it doesn't look as good there, and it's annoying when you get shot inside your LPR. The PM8 was moved to fix this, and I think is one of the nicest guns of all time. The only plastic part on them was the eye covers on the PM5 and PM6, but many people thought even they were an improvement because of how easy they made changing they eyes.
Which brings me to my theory about the Proto line. I think DYE brought out the Proto line as a way to test new "prototype" designs. I think they purposely marketed the line as cheaper, but were actually trying out new ideas that may or may not make their way back to the DM line. They put an uglier barrel and anno on the Proto, almost no marketing budget, and tried out some new designs. The PM8 was probably too similar to a DM, (being better in almost every way than a DM8,and much cheaper) and they didn't want to take away sales of the DM series, so they discontinued the high end PM series and kept only the cheap, new PMR line. But this is only my theory.

[kyle4236]

I stand corrected

[Kirko017]

Originally Posted by PBBlastah

If someone could clarify what the differences are between the PM5, PM6, PM7, PM8, and their Dye counterparts, that would also be great.

Originally Posted by PBBlastah

With all due respect, that doesn't answer my question. My impression is that that the PM and DM line both use the same design platform, but are different in other ways? Is that correct? One way or another, it would help if you specifically addressed the differences between the original proto matrix (NOT the rail, I know the rail is a totally different thing) and the dye matrix line, if that makes sense.

The PM5, PM6, PM7, and PM8. Has the same fuse bolt as the Dye Matrix(DM). It also has the same LPR. Except the difference being the LPR is that it was in the front of the marker under the barrel, rather than the LPR at the rear under the bolt like in the DM.

The PM5-PM7 the LPR was in the front horizontally under the barrel. And could be adjusted from the front under the barrel. The PM8 the lpr was over the trigger guard, and vertical, and was adjusted through the front of trigger guard behind the hpr regulator.. The DM has always had the LPR at the rear, horizontally under the bolt and adjusted from the back. (up until the DM14 where they moved the LPR to make it more like the older PMs)

The PM5-PM8 also was just different milling. Just like the DM4-DM8 had different milling.

The PM8 and DM8 had the new eye pipe technology. But the PM8 had access to the eyes through the eye cover still though. Where as the DM8 and on has not had any eye covers plates.

The DM has the ultralite frame stock at the DM6-DM8. While only the PM8 had the ultralite frame stock, but the earlier PMs had an ultralite frame as an upgrade just like the DM4-DM5 had an upgradable ultralite frame..

So in essences, the PM5-PM8 performed like a DM, had all the same internals as the DM, just moved around a little bit. And looked different.

Hope that helps.

Originally Posted by Kirko017

___Timeline___
2005-2008: Proto Matrix (PM5, PM6, PM7, PM8) [was a DM with LPR in front]

2007-2010: Proto Matrix Rail (PMR) [PM without the LPR]

2011-Present: Proto Reflex Rail (Reflex) [The new updated, renamed PMR]

2008-2010: Proto SLG (SLG) [Entry Level Proto]

2011-Present: Proto Rail (Rail) [Substitute Entry Level Proto to the SLG]

2014-Present Proto Maxxed Rail (Maxxed Rail) [Updated version of Rail]

[dyeballer41266]

which one do i have?

[Mr. Charlie]

Proto Matrix Rail