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Old 05-05-2005, 06:01 PM #1
FreekSB-QPR
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Nexus? Shockwave? Tigers?

What is your relationship with the Tigers and Shockwave? Do you play each other ofter?
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Old 05-05-2005, 06:38 PM #2
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Nexus is way up in Manchester(well thats where PE LTD. is) I think they would probably be more likely to play Shockwave.
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Old 05-05-2005, 07:00 PM #3
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A lot of the NeXus guys live in south England, and train during the week, or on non-Nexus training weekends at parks in the south, like Campaign Paintball Park & Mikie's site with teams like Campaign, the UK Jags and Tigers. Some members of Shockwave, like Sam Telfer train with them as well. . . .

. . . .I believe you will find that NeXus as a team do more 'in house' training, and tend to train aganist themselves rather than other teams. . .
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Old 05-05-2005, 07:05 PM #4
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Originally posted by ToxicPaintballz
Nexus is way up in Manchester(well thats where PE LTD. is) I think they would probably be more likely to play Shockwave.
Shockwave's training field in Bristol, not Manchester.
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Old 05-06-2005, 12:03 AM #5
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We do not, and will not train against other teams.
We keep everything in-house and if anybody tells you, you have to train against other teams to get better, go tell them it's Buffalo-poo coz it ain't right.

Ask yourself this - Who do the Russkies train against when in Moscow ?
And when you answered that and recognised what they have achieved and where they are in the NXL league (first place) then you may begin to realise that as long as you do the right training in-house, then you don't need other teams.

Just to put a final nail in this coffin of misunderstanding, we trained in-house in 2003 and rocked (ranked 7th in the world in our first season), in 2004 we trained against other and sucked and now in 2005, we have gone back to in-house training and we have had the best start to any season, (7th in Huntington and 2nd in Germany), so the results speak for themselves.
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Old 05-06-2005, 01:31 AM #6
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Robbo, the Russian Legion's training methods are not a good basis of comparison for a lot of teams. The frequency of training and the discipline are the two most obvious reasons that abstacting information from their example is misleading.

Do you think that in-house training is superior because you (or whatever coach) control the agenda of the practice and can tailor it to your players' needs? Is it an example of the inferiority of scrimmage vs. drilling isolated skills? Is it a matter of mindset when playing "outsiders" vs. teammates?

I see the data you use to support what you're saying in the examples of Nexus and the Russians, but is that a principle that can be generalized to apply to all teams, or simply to these two pro teams?

I imagine that you don't have quite the budget to structure practices like RL, so the principle seems somewhat insensitive to resources or training hours. I wonder if there is a point where the scale of practice resources indicates other than what you are saying.

Clearly more practice is better. I wonder if practicing good teams is beneficial, but with diminishing returns over greater training time.
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Old 05-06-2005, 03:20 AM #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by gyroscope
Robbo, the Russian Legion's training methods are not a good basis of comparison for a lot of teams. The frequency of training and the discipline are the two most obvious reasons that abstacting information from their example is misleading.

Do you think that in-house training is superior because you (or whatever coach) control the agenda of the practice and can tailor it to your players' needs? Is it an example of the inferiority of scrimmage vs. drilling isolated skills? Is it a matter of mindset when playing "outsiders" vs. teammates?

I see the data you use to support what you're saying in the examples of Nexus and the Russians, but is that a principle that can be generalized to apply to all teams, or simply to these two pro teams?

I imagine that you don't have quite the budget to structure practices like RL, so the principle seems somewhat insensitive to resources or training hours. I wonder if there is a point where the scale of practice resources indicates other than what you are saying.

Clearly more practice is better. I wonder if practicing good teams is beneficial, but with diminishing returns over greater training time.

Frikkin 'eck Gyro, good question !!!

Firstly, you can't do a like for like comparison with the Russians for the very reasons you mention but what you can do is recognize certain features of their training as beneficial to all.
I am suggesting that in-house training that the Russians self-evidently have to employ is not undermining their performance and so has to be recognised as positive to some degree, it just remains for people to debate just how significant that part of their training is.
I tend to think it is hugely important and if you think about it, if it wasn't, there is no way they would be sitting atop the NXL pile because were training in-house in the least detrimental to performance, they would not, could not, be leading the NXL.

As for the relative benefits of in-house training over scrimmaging against other teams, as you say, when I take in-house training, I take control from the get go.
In any normal game, it is the game itself that controls events.
Think about it, in normal games, players run out and then react to what goes on around them, its generally cause and effect paintball, I call it reactoball.
When Nexus play in-house, they are all given directives and I will stop the game at any point I think fit and start again.
In this way, the players control events and what they do and if they dont follow the directives, we just stop in its tracks.
In this way we can focus on what we want to focus on and more importantly focus players minds on the job in hand.

If we end up scrimmaging against other teams then the imperative inexorably slides into wanting to win the game and thats not what training is all about, its about learning not winning games.
I have told my players many times, I would much rather you lose a game doing what I ask than win a game doing something else, that maxim has been with us from the very start.
Another benefit of in-house training as far as Nexus are concerned is that the level of player in terms of technical and tactical expertise is assured in that I know what we have on board, you start playing against other teams whilst training is just opening yourself to sliding to the lowest level of their play.
Paintball, like any other sport, is open to negative influences and if you are going up against teams who do not have the same mindset or level of play then you are immediately allowing these negative influences to affect your training and consequent performance.
I made that mistake once; I wont let it happen again.
There is an obvious argument to suggest that playing against better teams will help and there is some substance to that argument but not for Nexus in the UK.
Teams can get some positive benefits from playing against better teams, but there is a plateau of achievement that is resident with that training regime and at some time you have to take a time-out and get in amongst yourselves to develop your own improvement curve.
You mention resources as being somehow limiting and of course this is true but what you have to do is optimise what training time you do have, and to this end, it is much better to train in-house than to scrimmage for the sake of it in the mistaken belief it will improve your teams performance, it wont, it merely camouflages whats really going as it did with us in 2004.
I hope this goes some way to answering your questions.
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Last edited by Robbo : 05-06-2005 at 03:51 AM.
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Old 05-07-2005, 05:11 AM #8
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You can pull yourself up by bootstraps if you have a firm grasp. Sergei provides that in the Legion, as you do in Nexus. That seems like the commonality; firm coaching to trump the crucible teams look for in playing a team they judge is better than them.
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Old 05-08-2005, 01:47 AM #9
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Yo Gyro having a firm grasp is only one of the necessary attributes required because the coach has to know what to do when he has such complete control.
After all, it would be like sitting in the driving seat of a Formula One racing car and not knowing how to drive it; you might as well be sitting on the frikkin toilet seat for all the good thats gonna do ya.

I know several captains / coaches who have a firm grasp on their team but they have little to no idea what or how to do anything and these teams languish, alternatively there are captains / coaches out there who know roughly what to do but cant engender in the team the confidence and discipline to create the necessary learning / improvement environment.
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Old 05-08-2005, 02:17 PM #10
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Robbo, your thoughts please.

Hi Robbo, I read this thread with interest, and of course, this has been your line of thought for a while now.

To some degree, one assumption of your posts (I think) is that there are enough players in the squad to play competitive games against each other, whilst retaining firm control of said games. You are developing a larger group of players through drills in a competitive situation, with the facility of stopping the games and identifying issues or points worth raising.

However, where there are only a maximum of 7 players at any practice with no real 'full game' opportunities, what are the best drills to do with fairly limited financial resources.

For us in Ireland, this is real. We have a maximum of 7 players at any practice and no other teams to scrimmage against. So we drill. But so few (compared to most teams) are the events we play (maybe 3 Millenniums) it is difficult until we actually compete to know if what we have been doing is effective.

In such a situation, what are the best drills you would recommend over, say, 8 practices?

Cheers

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Old 05-08-2005, 02:56 PM #11
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Re: Robbo, your thoughts please.

QUOTE]Originally posted by weemouse
Hi Robbo, I read this thread with interest, and of course, this has been your line of thought for a while now.

To some degree, one assumption of your posts (I think) is that there are enough players in the squad to play competitive games against each other, whilst retaining firm control of said games. You are developing a larger group of players through drills in a competitive situation, with the facility of stopping the games and identifying issues or points worth raising.

However, where there are only a maximum of 7 players at any practice with no real 'full game' opportunities, what are the best drills to do with fairly limited financial resources.

For us in Ireland, this is real. We have a maximum of 7 players at any practice and no other teams to scrimmage against. So we drill. But so few (compared to most teams) are the events we play (maybe 3 Millenniums) it is difficult until we actually compete to know if what we have been doing is effective.

In such a situation, what are the best drills you would recommend over, say, 8 practices?
Cheers
John
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[/quote]

Hey John,
Another good question, you are right it is problematic but not as much as you might at first think. When Nexus first started out we had ten players and in that first year went from nothing to ranked 7th in the world (NPPL rankings).
Now not to bang the same ole drum but you are aware we had 7 amateurs and novices on that team in the first year but we still managed to make the improvements necessary to get that 7th place at year end 2003.

We used to dog-ball (play amongst ourselves) all year, obviously playing 5 on 5 but often 4 on 4 if one or two players couldnt make it that week for training.
I would run those sessions strictly, making dammed sure the players upheld whatever directive I set them.
So what seems like a disadvantage in not having a squad large enough to go at it 7 on 7 turns out not to be so bad.
And the reason is this :- The qualitative aspect of playing in-house paintball isnt derived from the fact you have 7 on 7, or to put it more accurately, the end product isnt really affected that much by not having 7 on 7, than say having 5 on 5 or even 4 on 4.
This is because it is the nature of the training thats important not the numbers in the sides.
Its obvious there is a limit and I think 4 on 4 is that limit but just because it seems more common sense to have 7 on 7 for training, Im afraid it doesnt follow that you cannot make the same improvements if you have a 5 on 5.

The determinant factor is that for the vast majority of teams, technical excellence is what is needed in the primary and mid stages of a teams development.
Technical excellence can be achieved in a 5 on 5 just as easy as you can with a 7 on 7.
The problem is, people dont really understand the dynamics of paintball at its fundamental level and they try to introduce notions such as teamwork believing you cant train for it unless you have a 7 on 7.
Im afraid thats buffalopoo because teamwork is an emergent property of 7 players playing technically well and will happen automatically to a certain extent.

So if you concentrate on the technical side of things and monitor those type technical features in any in-house dog-balling sessions, you wont go too far wrong mate.trust meor rather trust the results of Nexus because whatever people might say, the proof is nearly always in the pudding.

I would always concentrate on snap shooting, runing and shooting, left handed shooting, break out shooting (spin round on a signal and hose the otjher end of the field checking on the accuracy), practice game start spin rounds for speed, and then try to integrate these into dog-balling sessions having games where players only play left handed thus focussing their attentoin on that particular skill requirement.
Also put a time limit on some games telling the players of one team (do not tell the other team) that you want a particular game finished in one min..what's important in all of these dog ball games is not the winning (winning means notihng whilst training) but the focus on the skill being trained.
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Old 05-09-2005, 02:28 PM #12
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Thanks Robbo

Very useful indeed, Robbo.

many thanks

John
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Old 05-09-2005, 04:46 PM #13
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John,

I see a lot of teams around here that have about that same problem and they've devised a way to turn that around. We have a lot of three man teams, and some teams have multiple teams. So, what they do is they sometimes run 4 on 3 drills just to make the other team better. After a few games, they switch the teams up. I had the privelage of playing with them one day, and I think that it made me a little better. That's just my two cents. Take it for what it's worth.

Josh
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Old 05-09-2005, 10:11 PM #14
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Robbo, what food do u eat while in-house training? I eat peanut-butter (for the protein) but i hate all that sugar! BTW You guys are awesome! sure there is dynasty, infamous, all THOSE guys. I like how you guys are as people, not just as players. Wish i could watch you guys play, i think that'd be so uber aggro.
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Old 05-10-2005, 01:19 AM #15
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EvilSlave,

Well get yo a$$ down to TAMPA then.
What more could you want, sun, sand, sea, and something else........ ah yes paintball!

See you there amigo!
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Old 05-10-2005, 01:27 AM #16
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vLLV - I think for the most part you can eat what you like within reason as long as you don't get too fat. Any exercise you take will require eneergy and so you will need some form of carbs, so don't be put off by sugars too much, just take them in the form of fruit rather than the refined source like candy etc.
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Old 05-10-2005, 06:31 AM #17
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Candy?!?!

Surely You mean sweets and chocy bars dont ya baldy??

Cant you crazy yanks see what your doing to our coach. Your assimilating him into one of your own.

EvilSlave.... Robo's normal diet normally consist of a couple of small children which happen to be running around the paintball site. He doesnt even chew! - He finds this provides a nice mix of protein and carbs all in one nutritous snack.

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Old 05-10-2005, 06:38 AM #18
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Small children, gatorade and ice creams pretty much sums up the Robo on-site/training diet

He quite likes a Warhead sour 'candy' too.

Oh and raw chillis followed by 4 pints of UHT milk
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Old 05-10-2005, 06:47 AM #19
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Oh and raw chillis followed by 4 pints of UHT milk
Funny, funny times...... why is there never ever a camera around when Robbos head has turned fire engine red and is on the verge of exploding?!
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Old 05-10-2005, 03:25 PM #20
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I can't belive someone is asking for advice on diet from someone who is a teammate of Ledz.
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Old 05-10-2005, 03:36 PM #21
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Quote:
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I can't belive someone is asking for advice on diet from someone who is a teammate of Ledz.
There must be some sort of nutritional value of 'Pot Noodles'. . . .
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