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Old 02-20-2005, 12:05 AM #43
Arrival
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A lot of people here seem to be overly biased towards the Shocker. One person (namely 1llusion) says Shockers are better than a Superstock 'Cocker... yet about a post or two later he openly admits to knowing nothing about 'Cockers. Before you criticize a fine product such as a WGP Superstock, please know at least a little about it. Autocockers can be simple if you take some time to learn a few basics. I am a WGP product owner ('02 full custom A/C) and know a good share about 'em.

Now then, as far as 'Cockers being high maintainence goes... do any of you people realize that you're favoring a marker that can be twice as much work and even less reliable? Before you go on to say I know nothing about Shockers, save it; I've owned a red Ultimate straight from the Smart Parts factory. I read YDNA's site like a Christian would the bible; I knew all of the basic maintenance procedures. When I get the marker in the mail and finally try it out, what else happens but a breakdown (bad leak)? After taking it to a shop, we come to the conclusion that bad O-rings were the cause. They say they'll get thier Shocker boy to work on it when he comes in the next day (new O-rings, looking at other parts for flaws), so I pick it up later on that week.

I gas it up and do a dry test run before I take 'er home, works fine. When I get home, I load up some paint with a few pods on standby. As soon as I gas up again, another leak springs. I'll be damned if I know where from this time. I shoot off a good 50 balls before the whole 4500 PSI is depleted. Let's just say after a few more trips to see the Shocker guy and unsatisfactory results, it got sent back to the factory with a cancelled charge on the credit card.

In conclusion, and from what I hear from the people/friends at several proshops I visit, new Shockers don't have a very good chance of working correctly; even from the factory itself. I like the design and concept of the marker; I just wish it could be of more quality. Speaking of quality, the annodizing job that's done on the Shocker is nothing to brag about; I've seen red Shockers turn to pink, and blue Shockers turn to the original body color, grey. In my eyes, a lot of today's new high-end markers are of much more quality and are worth paying more money for.

With the money fom the returned Shocker, and racking up some more hours at work, I am now a proud and happy Fly owner. Hail WDP.
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Old 02-20-2005, 10:23 AM #44
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I love my shocker. very accurate to me,easy to use, clean, etc. from what i've seen and heard is that timmies break alot. The shocker is nice and small, 21 bps is fast enough for me with a stock board, and i haven't had any problems with it.
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Old 02-20-2005, 07:02 PM #45
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shocker with vision and 2005 freeslty
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Old 02-21-2005, 04:30 PM #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by Arrival
A lot of people here seem to be overly biased towards the Shocker. One person (namely 1llusion) says Shockers are better than a Superstock 'Cocker... yet about a post or two later he openly admits to knowing nothing about 'Cockers. Before you criticize a fine product such as a WGP Superstock, please know at least a little about it. Autocockers can be simple if you take some time to learn a few basics. I am a WGP product owner ('02 full custom A/C) and know a good share about 'em.

Now then, as far as 'Cockers being high maintainence goes... do any of you people realize that you're favoring a marker that can be twice as much work and even less reliable? Before you go on to say I know nothing about Shockers, save it; I've owned a red Ultimate straight from the Smart Parts factory. I read YDNA's site like a Christian would the bible; I knew all of the basic maintenance procedures. When I get the marker in the mail and finally try it out, what else happens but a breakdown (bad leak)? After taking it to a shop, we come to the conclusion that bad O-rings were the cause. They say they'll get thier Shocker boy to work on it when he comes in the next day (new O-rings, looking at other parts for flaws), so I pick it up later on that week.

I gas it up and do a dry test run before I take 'er home, works fine. When I get home, I load up some paint with a few pods on standby. As soon as I gas up again, another leak springs. I'll be damned if I know where from this time. I shoot off a good 50 balls before the whole 4500 PSI is depleted. Let's just say after a few more trips to see the Shocker guy and unsatisfactory results, it got sent back to the factory with a cancelled charge on the credit card.

In conclusion, and from what I hear from the people/friends at several proshops I visit, new Shockers don't have a very good chance of working correctly; even from the factory itself. I like the design and concept of the marker; I just wish it could be of more quality. Speaking of quality, the annodizing job that's done on the Shocker is nothing to brag about; I've seen red Shockers turn to pink, and blue Shockers turn to the original body color, grey. In my eyes, a lot of today's new high-end markers are of much more quality and are worth paying more money for.

With the money fom the returned Shocker, and racking up some more hours at work, I am now a proud and happy Fly owner. Hail WDP.
Autocockers are some of the best markers on the market, if you take care of them.
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Old 02-21-2005, 05:48 PM #47
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^^^^ agree ^^^^
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Old 02-22-2005, 08:29 AM #48
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dynasty shocker vs. alias/RL/05 lasoya/dark timmies
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Old 02-22-2005, 08:30 PM #49
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as far as buying one(shcoker)..not right now..if i buy a gun it will be later in the year.05 just started.sp still has to release some guns..there were three shockers at my field..all three had issues..one leaked and other skiped shots....and everyone complains about leaks...i have a cocker.it broke down on me after i ****ed with it..other than that.NEVER.I SAY NEVER.i even use my hose to clean some parts off..es a hose with preasured water.that gets everything off the triger for sure.then dry up quickly and lube components and bam..it will start shooting..thats the type of gun i need.not a gun (like i told my friend) that when you go to turn on might not want to work.or might wanna let some gas out thru god knows where......so yeah....idk...ill wait.i really like the ego..have not seen any mayor problems with it......
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Old 02-22-2005, 11:04 PM #50
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lets keep this a vs. thread guys.. anyways, lets see a dm5 vs. shocker
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Old 02-23-2005, 04:43 PM #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by Arrival
A lot of people here seem to be overly biased towards the Shocker. One person (namely 1llusion) says Shockers are better than a Superstock 'Cocker... yet about a post or two later he openly admits to knowing nothing about 'Cockers. Before you criticize a fine product such as a WGP Superstock, please know at least a little about it. Autocockers can be simple if you take some time to learn a few basics. I am a WGP product owner ('02 full custom A/C) and know a good share about 'em.

Now then, as far as 'Cockers being high maintainence goes... do any of you people realize that you're favoring a marker that can be twice as much work and even less reliable? Before you go on to say I know nothing about Shockers, save it; I've owned a red Ultimate straight from the Smart Parts factory. I read YDNA's site like a Christian would the bible; I knew all of the basic maintenance procedures. When I get the marker in the mail and finally try it out, what else happens but a breakdown (bad leak)? After taking it to a shop, we come to the conclusion that bad O-rings were the cause. They say they'll get thier Shocker boy to work on it when he comes in the next day (new O-rings, looking at other parts for flaws), so I pick it up later on that week.

I gas it up and do a dry test run before I take 'er home, works fine. When I get home, I load up some paint with a few pods on standby. As soon as I gas up again, another leak springs. I'll be damned if I know where from this time. I shoot off a good 50 balls before the whole 4500 PSI is depleted. Let's just say after a few more trips to see the Shocker guy and unsatisfactory results, it got sent back to the factory with a cancelled charge on the credit card.

In conclusion, and from what I hear from the people/friends at several proshops I visit, new Shockers don't have a very good chance of working correctly; even from the factory itself. I like the design and concept of the marker; I just wish it could be of more quality. Speaking of quality, the annodizing job that's done on the Shocker is nothing to brag about; I've seen red Shockers turn to pink, and blue Shockers turn to the original body color, grey. In my eyes, a lot of today's new high-end markers are of much more quality and are worth paying more money for.

With the money fom the returned Shocker, and racking up some more hours at work, I am now a proud and happy Fly owner. Hail WDP.
Dont even try to bash me. If you read this forum, you know that I know exactly what I am talking about, with regards to shockers. No cocker will ever, ever be comparable, in my opinion. Thats all these posts in this thread are. Opinions. Not hard facts. Grow up

EDIT -- Just read the rest of your post, and you sound like you have problems with your gun. But I ask you this; did you lube it before gassing it up for the first time? You never know how long its been sitting on a shelf. Also, dont even try to say that cockers are less complicated than shockers, as it is totally untrue. Sure, I may not be an expert on cockers, but who cares? Cockers have died.
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Last edited by 1llusion : 02-23-2005 at 04:56 PM.
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Old 02-23-2005, 08:12 PM #52
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Exactly; opinions. My opinion is that the Shocker is not a very good marker straight out of the box; and I've never heard of a marker that needs to be maintained before you even use it for the first time. Tell me to grow up? If you can't accept an opinion that differs from yours then, sir, I believe you need to grow up.
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Old 02-23-2005, 09:08 PM #53
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Always, always, always, always clean and relube any marker you buy, before using it at all. That proved how much you truly care about the quality of the perfomance.
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Old 02-24-2005, 12:59 PM #54
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i ahve owned a cocker, 2 shockers, timyms. angles, impulses. Shodkers are my favorite by far. Wen u get a shcoker replace the sft oring n detents u will nvr have a problem.
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Old 02-24-2005, 11:17 PM #55
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Matrix vs. 03 Shocker

The 03 Shocker is a complete spoof of the Matrix design. The Matrix was the first spool valve design marker (that I know of) and when released, the design was incredibly unpopular. People however decided to give the gun a shot. After the markers started to get produced more and more, people started making aftermarket parts for the gun. This also helped jump the sales of the Matrix. Then DYE comes along and buys out the patent for the Matrix. If I remember my pb history well enough, Smart Parts asked for legal clearence and when given, designed the Shocker which was the second spool valve marker. It was lighter and "built on a better platform" (if you believe that, you HAVE to buy the Shocker). DYE wouldn't think of this, it would ruin their sales. Hence they released the DM4 but thats a whole new story.

Anyway, here is the comparison:

Eyes:
Shocker: The Shocker uses the standard vision Cricket board that SP released for their Impulse line of markers. This means that the guns still use a reflective eye system. This system works like so: the eye is turned on and shoots a laser across the breech of the marker. As soon as a paintball falls in the laser, the eye reads it as a paintball. The beam bounces off the ball and returns back to the optic eye and the marker is allowed to fire. The reflective eye has some problems with seeing black paint which was one big problem SP users had on their guns (take it from me, it wasn't fun when I had my Imp). Try taking a laser point and pointing it on stuff. It is always bright and has a red halo around the dot when pointed at anything. However, as soon as it gets to black, it is barely visable. The same concept is applied here. However, you can get the WAS board mod done which uses a WAS board and beam break eyes. However, the mod is expensive and costs $300.

Matrix: The Matrix from the get go has break beam eyes. The system was originally introduced by Bob Long back in 2001 with his Classic Intimidator paintball line of markers. Since then, they have been a hit to tournament players around the world. The eye system works differently from the reflective eye system. Rather then looking for paint, the optic eye shoots a beam across to the receiver eye and waits for a disruption. As soon as something breaks the beam, it allows the marker to fire. It doesn't look for a paintball perseí (sp?), but more for something to break the beam. A better design and well worth the money in my opinion.

Bolt Design and Air Conservation:
Shocker: The Shocker, like stated above, uses the spool valve bolt design. However, the design of it limits to the amount of air the gun can conserve while shooting. This was always a problem with the spool valve design on markers. Therefore, the gun was a gas hog. Aftermarket bolt kits were released with the most popular being the Evolve. However, here in lies the problem. Due to the design, the bolt kit is limited in how much air conservation it can have. Using a standard 68/4500 tank (stock), a Shocker can only get 1000 shots off a full fill. The design is more practical, Iíll give it that much. However, it is not good enough to let you have high numbers in the conservation area. Then Evolve released the Evolve bolt kit. Off a 68/4500 tank, you can get 1500 shots off a full fill. However, you cant get anything more then that, trust me. People would sit down and lie about the numbers theyíd get out of their tanks so Evolve once set up an event and said if anyone can beat the numbers we get out of our Shocker, we will give you the gun and a free bolt kit. No one beat them.

Matrix. The Matrix design was better built then the Shockers. Notice that originals are always the best. The Matrix bolt kit uses 7 different pieces and I believe 16 o-rings. The stock Image bolt kit gives a user roughly 1000 shots off a 68/4500 fill, the same as the Shocker. However, the bolt kit design allows for aftermarket companies to fine tune the guns air efficiency. When Evolve stepped in, they promised 1750 shots AT LEAST from their bolt kits. When I purchased mine and used my 70/4500 tank, I was getting a minimum of 2100 shots off a full fill. Off a 68/3000, I would get roughly 1100 shots off a full fill, the same as a Viking, stock, out of the box. These numbers are far more impressive then that of the Shockers. Iím sorry but more is better in this case.

Weight:
Shocker: Iíll give this gun something for it being out on the market and that is its weight. The gun weighs less then any other marker out on the shelves (except the A-Bomb Intimidator). It weighs an astonished 1.4 LBS! However, less is not always more like the case aforementioned. In order to make the gun incredibly light, they had to take something out. In this case, it was size. The reg and frame are too closely knit. It is almost impossible to wrap your thumb around the regulator whether it be gas through or Max-Flow. Sadly, this really rubs my carrot the wrong way. I like to wrap off the break and if I cant, this automatically throws the gun out the window for me.

Matrix: Ah yes, the Matrix. The marker that everyone *****es about whenever I go onto forums and see verse threads with this guns name in it. The weight. The stock LED Matrix weighs roughly 3.4 LBS (give or take a few ounces). However, when in game, weight is not really a factor. If you ask any Matrix owner, theyíve never complained about the weight of their guns when on the field. Neither have I. The weight does take a little bit away from the gun but it gives you that sense of feeling that it is more sturdy then most other guns on the market; that it wonít snap when you dive into a bunker. This is truly the best feature of all on this marker alone in my opinion.

LPR:
Shocker: The question that I want to know when looking at any gun really: does it have one. Does the Shocker? No. Can you buy one? Yes. However, this was the problem with all SP guns. You have to go out and buy the part in order for it to make your gun work to its optimum settings. This pisses me off. I just dished out money to buy a gun and now I have to buy an LPR with it. Not really the best thing in the world but hey, itís a marketing world out there. LPRs allow you to fine tune your gun. Spool valve system guns really donít use that much pressure to operate. With a spool valve, if you have an LPR you donít really need eyes because you can set your gun to bounce off paint. If you buy the non-vision Shocker package, you are sadly out of luck.

Matrix: Yes, the marker has one out of the box. Yes, it allows you to fine tune your gun. Without an LPR, you could never get those numbers I mentioned above out of your Evolve bolt kit. The reason so many people love their un-ACEd guns so much is because they can fine tune their guns to bounce off paint. This is absolutely a plus in my book and already puts the Trix far ahead from the Shocker in light of how well the gun performs.

Price:
Shocker: Well the price of the gun is what matters most to some people so lets see what we can find out. From PbGear.com, I located the price of the 03 Shocker. The base gun package (in black) with inline Max-Flow ranges at $850.00. This package does not come with an LPR and I believe comes with the new HE bolt kit from SP that helps with efficiency (I donít know what Shockers come with stock, ask someone who does and they should tell you). However, for $850, look at what you get. Sadly, this deal can be passed up.

Matrix: The price of the Matrix was also taken from PbGear.com. The package for a black dust DYE Matrix was at $825.00. If you cant count, that is $25 less then that of the Shocker. But look at all you get with it. This is no doubt the better value when looking at a new gun.

Conclusion:
Well, after comparing all these things with both the Shocker and the Matrix, it seems the Matrix gives you more out of the box. Go with the Trix, you won't be disappointed.

origonaly posted by zero evolution
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Old 02-24-2005, 11:22 PM #56
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SHOCKER VS DM4/DM5

Eyes:
Shocker: The Shocker uses the standard vision Cricket board that SP released for their Impulse line of markers. This means that the guns still use a reflective eye system. This system works like so: the eye is turned on and shoots a laser across the breech of the marker. As soon as a paintball falls in the laser, the eye reads it as a paintball. The beam bounces off the ball and returns back to the optic eye and the marker is allowed to fire. The reflective eye has some problems with seeing black paint which was one big problem SP users had on their guns (take it from me, it wasn't fun when I had my Imp). Try taking a laser point and pointing it on stuff. It is always bright and has a red halo around the dot when pointed at anything. However, as soon as it gets to black, it is barely visable. The same concept is applied here. However, you can get the WAS board mod done which uses a WAS board and beam break eyes. However, the mod is expensive and costs $300.

DM4: The DM4 uses the same eye system that the standard Matrix uses. It uses the break beam eye system. The eyes are still internal and are cleaned by removing two internal eye covers that use alan key head screws to clamp down with. Nothing much to say about these gunsí eye systems considering that they are identical to that of the Trix. A side note to add is that the DM4 uses the EGi board similar to that of the NYX Matrixís. The design is different but it uses the same concept

Bolt Design and Air Conservation:
DM4: The DM4 uses the newer version of the spool valve bolt system. Its called the Fuse bolt by DYE; it got this name because the bolt kit screws together making it easier to take out and put back in. It still has the same number of o-rings, just not as many parts. Nothing big and new about this kit, it just has threads on it to keep it together. Its amazing though that no company can make a stock bolt kit that is really efficient. With the stock bolt kit, youíre looking at around 800 shots off a 68/4500 tank. I know backs will not like this gun considering the fact that they like to piss streams of paint down the field.

Bolt Design and Air Conservation:
Shocker: The Shocker, like stated above, uses the spool valve bolt design. However, the design of it limits to the amount of air the gun can conserve while shooting. This was always a problem with the spool valve design on markers. Therefore, the gun was a gas hog. Aftermarket bolt kits were released with the most popular being the Evolve. However, here in lies the problem. Due to the design, the bolt kit is limited in how much air conservation it can have. Using a standard 68/4500 tank (stock), a Shocker can only get 1000 shots off a full fill. The design is more practical, Iíll give it that much. However, it is not good enough to let you have high numbers in the conservation area. Then Evolve released the Evolve bolt kit. Off a 68/4500 tank, you can get 1500 shots off a full fill. However, you cant get anything more then that, trust me. People would sit down and lie about the numbers theyíd get out of their tanks so Evolve once set up an event and said if anyone can beat the numbers we get out of our Shocker, we will give you the gun and a free bolt kit. No one beat them.

Weight:
DM4: The Dm4 weighs a lot less then the older Matrixes. It weighs roughly ~2.1 pounds due to its new design and milling. This is great for those fronts who cant use the older bodied Matrixes because it doesnít suit their style of play (heavy guns, slower snapping. Itís a problem for a handful of people but it still exists). If you want to worry about weight, you have this gun as an option to that of the older Matrixes.

Shocker: Iíll give this gun something for it being out on the market and that is its weight. The gun weighs less then any other marker out on the shelves (except the A-Bomb Intimidator). It weighs an astonished 1.4 LBS! However, less is not always more like the case aforementioned. In order to make the gun incredibly light, they had to take something out. In this case, it was size. The reg and frame are too closely knit. It is almost impossible to wrap your thumb around the regulator whether it be gas through or Max-Flow. Sadly, this really rubs my carrot the wrong way. I like to wrap off the break and if I cant, this automatically throws the gun out the window for me

LPR:
Shocker: The question that I want to know when looking at any gun really: does it have one. Does the Shocker? No. Can you buy one? Yes. However, this was the problem with all SP guns. You have to go out and buy the part in order for it to make your gun work to its optimum settings. This pisses me off. I just dished out money to buy a gun and now I have to buy an LPR with it. Not really the best thing in the world but hey, itís a marketing world out there. LPRs allow you to fine tune your gun. Spool valve system guns really donít use that much pressure to operate. With a spool valve, if you have an LPR you donít really need eyes because you can set your gun to bounce off paint. If you buy the non-vision Shocker package, you are sadly out of luck.

LPR:
DM4: The DM4 uses a new internal LPR that can be found in the back of the gun. In place of the LPR on the front, it has an integrated on/off so the gun can be degassed and gassed on the fly. This is great for those of you who have uni-mounts and donít want to hastle with unscrewing it to check on your gun. The LPR is set by simply screwing it in and unscrewing it 5 times to set it at 75 PSI. It goes in 15 PSI increments per complete turn so you can just as easily set it to 45 PSI like an older Matrix. Just unscrew it 3 times instead of 5. This is great for those of you who want a simple LPR setup job but it cant be set up as precisely as the older LPRs can. It will still get the job done though.


Price:
Shocker: Well the price of the gun is what matters most to some people so lets see what we can find out. From PbGear.com, I located the price of the 03 Shocker. The base gun package (in black) with inline Max-Flow ranges at $850.00. This package does not come with an LPR and I believe comes with the new HE bolt kit from SP that helps with efficiency (I donít know what Shockers come with stock, ask someone who does and they should tell you). However, for $850, look at what you get. Sadly, this deal can be passed up.

DM4: With all the new improvements that come on the new DM4s, they have to have something to weigh them down (no pun intended). In this case, it happens to be the price tag. At PBGear.com, the DM4 will set you back $1,349.94. With this you get some DYE lube, alan keys, a matching Ultralight, the software in the DM4, and the milling. You can even choose from an extensive amount of colors for the look thatís perfect for you!


psted by zero evolution
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Old 02-24-2005, 11:27 PM #57
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shocker vs timmy



Eyes

Timmy: Well, there isn't much to compare here. Timmy's all use breakbeam eyes, and as mentioned before, are better than reflective. Bob Long was the originator of this wonderful idea on his Classic Timmy, so we have him to thank for our current eye systems. The Intimidator eye system is a bit more detailed than Matrix eyes because it has two modes instead of one. There is forced mode in which the gun absolutely will not fire unless the eyes read a ball. Then there is delayed mode where the gun will wait several milliseconds to fire if a ball has yet to be detected. Forced mode is basically the way that Matrix eyes work anyway. And as with any eye system, Timmy eyes must be alligned perfectly in order to work properly. Each eye must be directly lined up with the other to create a proper beam. Failure to do this would result in non functioning eyes and a blender at high ROF's.

Shocker: The Shocker uses the standard vision Cricket board that SP released for their Impulse line of markers. This means that the guns still use a reflective eye system. This system works like so: the eye is turned on and shoots a laser across the breech of the marker. As soon as a paintball falls in the laser, the eye reads it as a paintball. The beam bounces off the ball and returns back to the optic eye and the marker is allowed to fire. The reflective eye has some problems with seeing black paint which was one big problem SP users had on their guns (take it from me, it wasn't fun when I had my Imp). Try taking a laser point and pointing it on stuff. It is always bright and has a red halo around the dot when pointed at anything. However, as soon as it gets to black, it is barely visable. The same concept is applied here. However, you can get the WAS board mod done which uses a WAS board and beam break eyes. However, the mod is expensive and costs $300


Bolt Design and Air Conservation:
Shocker: The Shocker, like stated above, uses the spool valve bolt design. However, the design of it limits to the amount of air the gun can conserve while shooting. This was always a problem with the spool valve design on markers. Therefore, the gun was a gas hog. Aftermarket bolt kits were released with the most popular being the Evolve. However, here in lies the problem. Due to the design, the bolt kit is limited in how much air conservation it can have. Using a standard 68/4500 tank (stock), a Shocker can only get 1000 shots off a full fill. The design is more practical, Iíll give it that much. However, it is not good enough to let you have high numbers in the conservation area. Then Evolve released the Evolve bolt kit. Off a 68/4500 tank, you can get 1500 shots off a full fill. However, you cant get anything more then that, trust me. People would sit down and lie about the numbers theyíd get out of their tanks so Evolve once set up an event and said if anyone can beat the numbers we get out of our Shocker, we will give you the gun and a free bolt kit. No one beat them.


Timmy: As mentioned above, an Intimidator, like most guns, uses a ram to move the bolt back and forth. It also has a poppet assembly which includes a spring and cupseal. You will find none of these parts inside of a Matrix. Again, the solenoid activates and releases air into the ram sleeve which moves the ram which moves the bolt. Intimidatores generally use delrin bolt and do not require grease or lube on the actual bolt. Air efficiency on an Intimidator is one of the best on the market, especially with the new 2k4 models. Off of a 68/4500 fill, most Timmy's will get around 1500-1600 shots. There really is no way to increase the efficiency however. Set your regs well, and be done with it.


Weight

Timmy: Ok, for those who look for a good balance between weight and performance, a Timmy is a good choice. With the introduction of the 2k4 Intimidator's I was very impressed in the weight department.

Alias & other 2k4 models: 1.3-2.6 pounds (empire is heavy)
Lasoya: 2.85
Texas Storm: 2.85
Species: 2.60
ECX: 2.5
Dragon: 2.30
Ironman: 2.85
Z: 2.5
2k2: 2.85


we all kknow the shocker is very light wieghing in at a 1.4 pounds


LPR: Timmys have lpr's as a standard features just like a matrix. Intimidators are also guns that run off of very low operating pressures. The LPR will run from around 55-80 psi depending on what your setup is. Volumizer, high flow barbs, and certain lubes will help you attain lower lpr pressures. There are a few types of Timmy lpr's but they all have the same internals and function the same way. Also, because of the LPR, Timmys are fairly quiet, and when set up well, have little kick. For a gun with a ram and non-enclosed bolt, Timmys don't kick too much.


Shocker: The question that I want to know when looking at any gun really: does it have one. Does the Shocker? No. Can you buy one? Yes. However, this was the problem with all SP guns. You have to go out and buy the part in order for it to make your gun work to its optimum settings. This pisses me off. I just dished out money to buy a gun and now I have to buy an LPR with it. Not really the best thing in the world but hey, itís a marketing world out there. LPRs allow you to fine tune your gun. Spool valve system guns really donít use that much pressure to operate. With a spool valve, if you have an LPR you donít really need eyes because you can set your gun to bounce off paint. If you buy the non-vision Shocker package, you are sadly out of luck


price

timmy- timmys can range any where from 750 for a 2k2 or ecx to 1700 for a ripper 2


shocker- these can range from 675 for a base nonvision to 1250 for a dark shocker



from zero evolution
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Old 02-24-2005, 11:32 PM #58
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Eyes:

Angel: The majority of Angels do not have eyes. Eyes have just been recently made available with the release of the FLY 4 series. All other Angels use a variation of COPS or SENSI which is type of weight/pressure sensor that senses whether a ball is present or not. COPS and SENSI are not nearly as effective as a breakbeam system found on a Matrix. In order to work at their optimum performance, COPS and SENSI need to be calibrated before each use which gets annoying after awhile. The new FLY series now comes with WDP's version of eyes which they call eye Q. They claim that these eyes and their software are the best eyes on the market due to best eye logic and fastest readings. This has yet to really be proven because breakbeam eyes on other guns work amazingly well. There is also aftermarket mods now available such as the HK mod, the Warped Sportz mod, and the Predator mod. Each of these includes putting a W.A.S. board into an angel and also fitting it with breakbeam eyes.


Shocker: The Shocker uses the standard vision Cricket board that SP released for their Impulse line of markers. This means that the guns still use a reflective eye system. This system works like so: the eye is turned on and shoots a laser across the breech of the marker. As soon as a paintball falls in the laser, the eye reads it as a paintball. The beam bounces off the ball and returns back to the optic eye and the marker is allowed to fire. The reflective eye has some problems with seeing black paint which was one big problem SP users had on their guns (take it from me, it wasn't fun when I had my Imp). Try taking a laser point and pointing it on stuff. It is always bright and has a red halo around the dot when pointed at anything. However, as soon as it gets to black, it is barely visable. The same concept is applied here. However, you can get the WAS board mod done which uses a WAS board and beam break eyes. However, the mod is expensive and costs $300


Bolt Design & Air Conservation:

Angel: The angel works similarly to other high end guns with, of course, an exception to the Matrix. Angels have a main spring, exhaust valve, and ram. As on other guns, the bolt is connected with the ram which moves back and forth as the solenoid provides the chamber with air. This design provides for average air consumption, somewhere in the 1200-1600 shot range off of a 68/4500. Due to the way that the Angel operates, the bolt will never really bounce off of a ball as will a Matrix, thus angels without ACE are notorious for chopping if they are not fine tuned perfectly. Although, the release of the A4 softface bolt has greatly improved the chopping aspect of Angels because it prevents the ball from rolling backwards in the breech and allowing the next ball in the stack to partially feed, which will most likely chop when the gun is cycled.

Shocker: The Shocker, like stated above, uses the spool valve bolt design. However, the design of it limits to the amount of air the gun can conserve while shooting. This was always a problem with the spool valve design on markers. Therefore, the gun was a gas hog. Aftermarket bolt kits were released with the most popular being the Evolve. However, here in lies the problem. Due to the design, the bolt kit is limited in how much air conservation it can have. Using a standard 68/4500 tank (stock), a Shocker can only get 1000 shots off a full fill. The design is more practical, Iíll give it that much. However, it is not good enough to let you have high numbers in the conservation area. Then Evolve released the Evolve bolt kit. Off a 68/4500 tank, you can get 1500 shots off a full fill. However, you cant get anything more then that, trust me. People would sit down and lie about the numbers theyíd get out of their tanks so Evolve once set up an event and said if anyone can beat the numbers we get out of our Shocker, we will give you the gun and a free bolt kit. No one beat them.

Weight: Angels are definetly heavier guns than shockers are, especially the newer models. WDP has found ways to shave off more weight with each new model starting with the speed. LED's, LCD's, IR3's, and FLY's lcd's/ir3's are roughly all around the same weight in the 2.6 pound range. Speeds may be a couple ounces lighter, and then the A4 weighs about 2.29 pounds, and I believe the new FLY models are a bit lighter. The A4's and FLY's are shorter than all the other models to help shave more weight off. Angels also are a very balanced gun. With a Angel air on it, you can hold it with one finger perfectly balanced. This will also work if you find a system that is comprable to the Angel AIR.


shocker-very light

LPR:

Angels: All Angels come with an lpr, however they are internal which makes adjusting them a bit difficult. In order to acces any of the internals for normal maintenance and tweaking, you must purchase a $50 Angel tool kit. Now, Angels do require less lubing and maintenance than a matrix, but when the time comes, it can prove to be a hassle. Anway, back to the lpr. An Angel LPR consists of shims that each represent 5psi. So to raise or lower your psi, you need to add or remove shims. The LPR pressure of speeds and newer angels run at about 82 psi, while the older ones run around 95 psi. The LPR is crucial on older angels do to the fact that they run at high operating pressures. The speed is the first Angel that runs under 450 psi. Due to the fact that Angels run at higher operating pressure than trixes, they are louder, and generally have noticeably more kick unless they are set up very well.

Shocker: The question that I want to know when looking at any gun really: does it have one. Does the Shocker? No. Can you buy one? Yes. However, this was the problem with all SP guns. You have to go out and buy the part in order for it to make your gun work to its optimum settings. This pisses me off. I just dished out money to buy a gun and now I have to buy an LPR with it. Not really the best thing in the world but hey, itís a marketing world out there. LPRs allow you to fine tune your gun. Spool valve system guns really donít use that much pressure to operate. With a spool valve, if you have an LPR you donít really need eyes because you can set your gun to bounce off paint. If you buy the non-vision Shocker package, you are sadly out of luck

price

angels can range from 300 used for a 99 bone break to 1600 from a jd fly


shockers can range from 675 for a base nonvision model to 1250 for a dark shocker



thx again zero
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Old 02-24-2005, 11:35 PM #59
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its like 1240 here so ill copy somemore from zero tommarow
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Old 02-25-2005, 07:00 AM #60
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how about a shocker vs. nerve

I have been wanting to see how they compare!
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Old 02-25-2005, 03:34 PM #61
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have both a shocker and a nerve love them both nerve is faster shocker is lighter but its just preference
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Old 02-25-2005, 05:54 PM #62
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pros-small, light, aluminum

cons- made by smart parts, has a max flo, plain milling
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Old 02-25-2005, 06:30 PM #63
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Heres one for yah,

Shocktech Shocker (basically has all the ups a shocker can have except an aftermarket bolt and board)

vs.

Ego (with the new parts)
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