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Old 04-06-2002, 09:31 PM #1
Gh0sT
 
 
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merlin with race or excaliber or viking

i thinks its time i got an electro... i cant decide

are there any advantages with the viking over the excal?

i hate the way the triggers look on all three but i have yet shoot them. i understand it will be close but which will give me the best consistency and be best for a mid/back player?
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Old 04-06-2002, 10:10 PM #2
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Most people would ask "What does the Excalibur have that the Viking doesn't?" Simply because the Excalibur costs more. The Excalibur is closed bolt, the Viking is open bolt. Only difference. Believe the hype? Then get Excalibur - closed bolt. Forget the hype? Then get the Viking - open bolt. That's all. They are both just as consistent/accurate/whatever.
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Old 04-06-2002, 10:12 PM #3
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ok... i did a bit of reading and i understand that the viking is PRONE to be less cosistant next to the excal due to the fact that it has a smaller air chamber and its hammer can be affected by the bolt.
but the viking can shoot faster(i think)


but how much less consistant and how much faster is my question.
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Old 04-06-2002, 10:29 PM #4
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The Excal's real world speed limit is 12.65 iirc, and the viking's is 13. As far as consistency goes, why would it be any more inconsistent then it's excalibur counterpart? As seen in one of the videos AuctionJunkie! shot, the Viking was +-2 over the chronograph... that's pretty damn good if you ask me.

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Old 04-06-2002, 10:38 PM #5
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Excal can be set shot at 13bps with a Halo. The reason why the Viking may be more inconsistant is if the bolt gets paint on it or junk in it then it could drag the bolt and thus cause consistancy problems. That isnt the case with the Excal, since the hammer is on its own ram. Since the Viking wont chop when its broken and most breaks happen in the barrel and not the breach, the Viking could very well be as consistant 99% of the time. I also believe there is no difference between the accurracy of the Viking compared to the Excal. I believe that Open Bolt vs Closed bolt is less meaningful then Lp vs Hp. Low pressure is much kinder on the balls and both are Low pressure. The difference in accurracy between the 2 should be unmeasureable. Meaning, if you did a test 100x one would be more accurate then the other 50% of the time. When you shoot an extremely low pressure marker, dont shoot hard balls. Shoot the most fargile balls you can find. You wont break them in the barrel but you will break them on those distant targets. I pick marbleizers off the ground after they bounce off my chest still in perfect shape. Thats why I shoot paint that breaks when you drop it from 10 feet on pavement. I got 3 on the same point at the very limit of the range of my marker. If I would have been shooting Bigball or Marbs, they probably wouldnt have broken. Accurracy doesnt mean **** when the balls dont break.
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Old 04-06-2002, 10:44 PM #6
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Depends on if you want closed or open bolt. Vikings a little faster, but some prefer the closed bolt. Or if you wanna spend $775 or $1250. Both guns rock, but its totally up to you.

Keep in mind that my whole team just sold their Angels, Defiants, ect. to all buy Excaliburs. Its paid off huge so far. NO gun problems, very little paint breakage, and wicked accurate.

Like I says, the choice is yours.
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Old 04-06-2002, 10:54 PM #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Reciprocity
Excal can be set shot at 13bps with a Halo. The reason why the Viking may be more inconsistant is if the bolt gets paint on it or junk in it then it could drag the bolt and thus cause consistancy problems. That isnt the case with the Excal, since the hammer is on its own ram. Since the Viking wont chop when its broken and most breaks happen in the barrel and not the breach, the Viking could very well be as consistant 99% of the time. I also believe there is no difference between the accurracy of the Viking compared to the Excal. I believe that Open Bolt vs Closed bolt is less meaningful then Lp vs Hp. Low pressure is much kinder on the balls and both are Low pressure. The difference in accurracy between the 2 should be unmeasureable. Meaning, if you did a test 100x one would be more accurate then the other 50% of the time. When you shoot an extremely low pressure marker, dont shoot hard balls. Shoot the most fargile balls you can find. You wont break them in the barrel but you will break them on those distant targets. I pick marbleizers off the ground after they bounce off my chest still in perfect shape. Thats why I shoot paint that breaks when you drop it from 10 feet on pavement. I got 3 on the same point at the very limit of the range of my marker. If I would have been shooting Bigball or Marbs, they probably wouldnt have broken. Accurracy doesnt mean **** when the balls dont break.
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Old 04-06-2002, 11:45 PM #8
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thanks the help, but what about a raced revenge?
what is the rof and consistency on that?
i remember reading about someone who did that a while back. he said it rocked.

btw, how much bigger is the air chamber on the excal over the viking?
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Old 04-07-2002, 12:08 AM #9
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If they differ in size, I would asume that the Viking has more Volumn stored inside due to the same body with less parts inside. But that doesnt matter much, cuase they both have about 2x more volumn then they need to feed the markers at there hightest ROF.

As far as Race Merlin. I dont know enough about how its setup to give an informed answer. I will tell you that most low pressure autococker with eltro grips have a problem with the vavle closeing fast enough after a shot to fire another shot at high rates of fire. Which basically means that to atain sub 200psi on most autocockers you have to leave the Valve open for a longer period of time and thus you have to wait for it to close then wait for the Air to leave the barrel which also takes longer then with a high pressure marker. Now this is meaningless at 9bps on a stock cocker. But when you try doing all that at 12+ bps you will see the hammer hitting the valve while its still open. Now the Merlin has a similar valve design to the Excal so I would asume that it would handle the higher rates of fire even at low pressure. I can make this assumption cuase I know a little about the how AKA approaches LP. They dont do it by lightening the Valve spring. As a matter of fact there valve stays open a shorter period of time with higher flow then a stock valve. Thats why they dont just offer lower pressure but also beter efficiency. I would still be surprised if a Race Merlin could atain a ROF over 11-12bps. One thing you can do if ROF is important is raise the the opporating pressure of your Marker with different springs. Raising it to 250psi or so should speed the vavle opening and closing.

Thats what makes the Excal running at 150psi at 13bps(HALO) and getting 2k shots from a 68/45 so amazing. Its not the fastest marker, not the lowest pressure, not the best at any one thing. But it is very good at every one of them and a great warrenty to boot. I challenge anyone to name 1 marker that meets these requirements:

1) LP lower then 200psi
2) 2000 shots from a 68/4500
3) 13bps
4) Closed bolt opporation
5) Life time warrenty

You might actually be able to do that with a Race Merlin but probably not the warrenty and 13bps would be pushing it even with a Halo. I got 200k balls through my Excal and my buddys angels have been in the shop a half dozen times in that time. Mine has run out of batterys twice, and thats about it and thats my own damn fault. Needless to say they are getting Vikings soon.
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Old 04-07-2002, 12:30 AM #10
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wow... very well writen
thank you for your reply
im gonna go with a viking
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Old 04-07-2002, 05:31 AM #11
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Accuracy is dependent on a number of factors including consistency over the chrono, how stable both you and your gun are when firing and how good your paintballs are.
If your primary concern is high ROF (over 13bps) then there are other choices to consider. Angels, GZ-Timmys and Matixes are in this group. When set up properly all are able to to pump out lots of balls with good consistency and accuracy.
The Viking is limited at 13bps by AKA. I believe it should be able to cycle faster but will have to be "unlocked" at circuit board level.
Most closed bolt action guns including electronic trigger modified Cockers will fire at less than13bps. (There are exceptions to every rule.) The advantage of properly set up closed bolts, IMHO, is that they tend to have very little "kick" and help contribute to a more stable firing platform. Both the Viking and the Excaliber should be able to give you excellent and comparable performance.
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Old 04-07-2002, 08:29 PM #12
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Go here to read about a Merlin with a Race.
http://www.compulsivepaintball.com/race/race.htm
Ask Jom any questions you may have. Hes a pretty cool guy. Jom@CompulsivePaintball.com

Enjoy
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Old 04-07-2002, 08:51 PM #13
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Rizzo has a Race Frame on a Merlin. It's the Blue one on the Race Guns Web site. Email him at nvoils@indy.net for more information.

Dan
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