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Old 11-28-2016, 12:00 AM #1
drizzyD
 
 
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Which control bore size is best for me?

tldr

will be using .684 - .686 paint ball size

looking to underbore for better efficieny and consistiency

looking to purchase dye cf boomstick .680 or .684 control bore size

which would give me the best results?





I called my paintball field and asked what their paintball size range normally run at, Empire custom blend (.684-.686) from Cousins Paintball. I'll be consistently using their paint as they are a field paint only establishment

I'm looking to get a dye cf boom stick for my lv1.1, stock .689 control bore back, but I'm looking to underbore. Cockerpunk stated anything more than a .07 underbore can/may lead to more barrel breaks

Can anyone share their insight on which bore size would be best for me given the certain conditions?


Dye cf boomstick offers .680 / .684 control bore sizes.
.684 - .686 Empire custom blend paint ball size
North East Region


Does anyone own a .680 control bore size in North east region? What size paint do you normally use when you use .680 control bore size?

Does anyone own a .684 control bore size in North east region? What size paint do you normally use when you use .684 control bore size?

What control bore size is most common in the North East regional players that are trying to underbore in relation to the size of their paintball ?

** I should've kept a few paintballs from this past outing but ended up cleaning the entire case.




ty
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Old 11-28-2016, 12:15 PM #2
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Before I ran all of my recent testing I thought as you did....go for slightly under bore. After my tests, I found that if you can't get an exact fit, slightly over bore is the way to go. Over bore by approx .003.
This will minimize any curved shots when trying to squeeze a slightly larger ball thru a smaller bore. The most common reason shots veer off to one side is due to a tight ball fit in the barrel.

So your control bore should match (or be close to) the largest diameter of your paintballs. Measure your paint if you want an exact number. Know what you're shooting. Then do the blow thru test on your barrel to confirm.
Hope this helps.
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Old 11-29-2016, 02:35 AM #3
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Cant agree more with Sub. IF your using cockers and other closed bolt guns, under bore your life away.
A .685 barrel of any brand is going to do well for you



id...... not get the cf boomy though. the cost is well.. insane and their are better options for under a third of the cost.
Parabolic, Stella, Lurker. Want something simple but well designed with alot of benefits, parabolic. want something more complex with more options, stella all day. Want a cheaper all around well made barrel, lurker.
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Old 11-29-2016, 07:43 AM #4
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^ Have to agree there. The only reason I've got any DYE barrels in my gear bag is because they 1) came with a gun, 2) showed up somewhere stupid-cheap, or 3) ... nope, refer back to 1.

The new price on them is astounding. It's not that they're bad barrels, it's just that you could have an array of great barrels for the price of a couple backs and a front from DYE.
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Old 11-29-2016, 11:49 PM #5
drizzyD
 
 
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ty for the feedback & responses

i ended up ordering the .684 cf boomie, figured the .680 would be too tight of a squeeze

i hope to see better "results" with the .684 boomie vs the stock .689 lv1.1 barrel considering that the paint im using is boring around .684 - .686

did research and the reasons why i chose the dye boomie
#1 as a person new to paintball, id rather go with a more "well-known" establishment
#2 i believe it has one of the more longer bore lengths which some say lead to better consistency
#3 made of stainless steel vs aluminum, which "results" in less friction

idk, this is all me after a few hours of research. what it really comes down to is shooting each barrel and noticing the real difference; what feels best in my hands; personal preference

has anyone shot paint through a .006 underbore on a closed bolt gun?

thanks again for taking the time to answer a few questions
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Old 11-30-2016, 12:16 AM #6
LEX_BALLER 3
 
 
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Originally Posted by drizzyD View Post
ty for the feedback & responses

i ended up ordering the .684 cf boomie, figured the .680 would be too tight of a squeeze

i hope to see better "results" with the .684 boomie vs the stock .689 lv1.1 barrel considering that the paint im using is boring around .684 - .686

did research and the reasons why i chose the dye boomie
#1 as a person new to paintball, id rather go with a more "well-known" establishment
#2 i believe it has one of the more longer bore lengths which some say lead to better consistency
#3 made of stainless steel vs aluminum, which "results" in less friction

idk, this is all me after a few hours of research. what it really comes down to is shooting each barrel and noticing the real difference; what feels best in my hands; personal preference

has anyone shot paint through a .006 underbore on a closed bolt gun?

thanks again for taking the time to answer a few questions
Weather and paint permitting you could run a .006 underbore. That is cutting it very close what you have to understand is just because you take 10 balls out and test them does not guarantee the rest of your paint will be that size. They are inconsistent and overboring gives you the wiggle room for when you get swelled up paint that would break if you were running that small of an underbore. Whatever you do dont match your paint. Either underbore or overbore but dont match because as I said above paint sizes can be inconsistent and if your matching then your actually going to be getting a more inconsistent shot. You referenced cockerpunk which is good punkworks has the only real scientific test data out there on barrels. Check out this video this is the other half of punkworks and may clear things up a little for you.


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Old 11-30-2016, 01:01 PM #7
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Weather and paint permitting you could run a .006 underbore. That is cutting it very close what you have to understand is just because you take 10 balls out and test them does not guarantee the rest of your paint will be that size. They are inconsistent and overboring gives you the wiggle room for when you get swelled up paint that would break if you were running that small of an underbore. Whatever you do dont match your paint. Either underbore or overbore but dont match because as I said above paint sizes can be inconsistent and if your matching then your actually going to be getting a more inconsistent shot. You referenced cockerpunk which is good punkworks has the only real scientific test data out there on barrels. Check out this video this is the other half of punkworks and may clear things up a little for you.
The entire topic on bore sizing is a complete cluster. Closing near 2017, i wish we had more conclusive data that shows which bore size would be most optimal for consistency and efficiency under certain conditions (weather, humiditiy, temperature, paintball size range, size of control bore, material its made of etc.)

Bryce stated in the video he only uses .679 bores, rarely has an issue with paint breaking, or paint not shooting consistently. He also recommended a pretty significant underbore and shared that paintballs can actually flex up to .08

I may have to order the .680 to seek results myself, but now I understand why people offered alternatives.
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Old 11-30-2016, 02:34 PM #8
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The entire topic on bore sizing is a complete cluster. Closing near 2017, i wish we had more conclusive data that shows which bore size would be most optimal for consistency and efficiency under certain conditions (weather, humiditiy, temperature, paintball size range, size of control bore, material its made of etc.)

Bryce stated in the video he only uses .679 bores, rarely has an issue with paint breaking, or paint not shooting consistently. He also recommended a pretty significant underbore and shared that paintballs can actually flex up to .08

I may have to order the .680 to seek results myself, but now I understand why people offered alternatives.
Punkworks is the only people who have actual data from real scientific testing. I would post links but pbnation wont let me. Just google punkworks barrel test and decide for yourself. It basically comes down to if your weather and paint allows you to underbore then you should underbore. If underboring is giving you issues then its probably the weather and paint and you should overbore. If you dont care about getting an extra pod of efficiency out of your gun then always overbore.
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Old 11-30-2016, 09:20 PM #9
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Drizzy
I don't quite agree with Lex regarding running that much under bore. Paintballs do flex w/o breaking, but when the under bore is that much the ball will curve after leaving the barrel.
I tested 0.692 balls with my 0.688 barrel and found that many would curve before reaching the target. Using my 0.690 barrel no curved shots. Granted, the balls were not all uniformly round so that would have some effect on the test. But, by and large, the balls were on target using my 0.690 barrel.
The primary issue here is that modern paintballs are really lousy. In the past the Marbalizers and PMI paintballs were much more uniform and consistent.
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Old 11-30-2016, 11:38 PM #10
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Drizzy
I don't quite agree with Lex regarding running that much under bore. Paintballs do flex w/o breaking, but when the under bore is that much the ball will curve after leaving the barrel.
I tested 0.692 balls with my 0.688 barrel and found that many would curve before reaching the target. Using my 0.690 barrel no curved shots. Granted, the balls were not all uniformly round so that would have some effect on the test. But, by and large, the balls were on target using my 0.690 barrel.
The primary issue here is that modern paintballs are really lousy. In the past the Marbalizers and PMI paintballs were much more uniform and consistent.
Not even gonna bother responding here.
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Old 12-01-2016, 06:09 AM #11
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Spent a couple seasons shooting stupid fragile event paint.
You will always overbore.

Who cares about the optimal pod efficiency lost?

I started 7man with 13 pods.
I ended up dropping down to 7.

A lockdown game was rare, tho the game was slower then with higher rof.
The game is faster now, rof slower, and honestly who is going to let you throw away half a match if both teams wanna play like it's 1997 sitting and shooting.

I mean, what do people think they need?
I remember 10-man back guys rocking a 114/4500 seriously packing up to 20 pods hanging off them down to their feet on an extender.
You'd have to ramp or risk carpal tunnel.

You think you are going to live long enough to shoot a big pack, get a big tank if you can't go fill.
If you plan on shooting a big pack, you'd want a clean barrel and that's pretty much it.

This optimal bore nonsense when paint is so generally crappy, plus we are in winter, is ludicrous.

For the longest time our barrels were .688 unless there was a manufacturing issue, paint was all over the place bc most of the guns didn't have an eye system and you'd chop shooting too fast.

Let's just create a condition where I may have to clean my gear instead of sail through a day having fun.
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Old 12-01-2016, 07:39 AM #12
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To be fair, PW aren't the only folks that have done scientific barrel research. That, and some of the science winds up not having as much effect in real world usage. There's "ideal", and then there's "good enough for paintball". Sometimes getting to "ideal" would mean pricing something well out of the market.
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Old 12-01-2016, 02:29 PM #13
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To be fair, PW aren't the only folks that have done scientific barrel research. That, and some of the science winds up not having as much effect in real world usage. There's "ideal", and then there's "good enough for paintball". Sometimes getting to "ideal" would mean pricing something well out of the market.
They are the only ones who have actually posted and documented the whole thing that I have seen. The rest are guys like the one above who just grab some mixed ****ty paint and shoot their guns from their shoulders and make conclusions from there . I agree though that in real world usage this is a very small thing. Marketing mumbo jumbo has made people think its a much bigger deal than it is. I just always overbore now that I have an SL77.
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Old 12-01-2016, 02:40 PM #14
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It has always been this way.
You get some optimal tuning part or idea and people just run with it forgetting that there's this giant variable called paint. Be it low pressure operation, running dwell as low as you can go, the SP Magic Box, bore size, then shoot whatever junk paint regardless of humidity and outside temp.

I think of it like guys building and tuning track cars running random pump gas, then going to the rifle range and plugging away at 300yds with random surplus ammo. Even shooting 7.62, humidity and temp affects trajectory.

Hit some magic thing, throw away most of results that don't suit you, voila science.

For the record I liked Proball Special back when a closed bolt gun was "obviously" better than open bolt (bc science). Stuff didn't shatter when a cocker bolt closed on it. It was 50/50 popping if a Mag bolt caught it. Yeah, you have to hit high center on something hard for it to break but at least your barrel was clean.
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Old 12-01-2016, 03:29 PM #15
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If you're going to underbore, you need some kind of barrel kit. Paint varies batch-to-batch. Sizing will vary depending on temperature and humidity. But it sound like if the 684 isn't a good match, you could just use your stock barrel for the day.
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Old 12-01-2016, 08:30 PM #16
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Old 12-03-2016, 10:13 PM #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drizzyD View Post
ty for the feedback & responses

i ended up ordering the .684 cf boomie, figured the .680 would be too tight of a squeeze

i hope to see better "results" with the .684 boomie vs the stock .689 lv1.1 barrel considering that the paint im using is boring around .684 - .686

did research and the reasons why i chose the dye boomie
#1 as a person new to paintball, id rather go with a more "well-known" establishment
#2 i believe it has one of the more longer bore lengths which some say lead to better consistency
#3 made of stainless steel vs aluminum, which "results" in less friction

idk, this is all me after a few hours of research. what it really comes down to is shooting each barrel and noticing the real difference; what feels best in my hands; personal preference

has anyone shot paint through a .006 underbore on a closed bolt gun?

thanks again for taking the time to answer a few questions
I think you'll really like the .684 CF boomy. Sure they are expensive but they are fantastic barrels and the 15" length is really nice if you want something a little longer. I used one all last season. I use a Stella for the beginning of this season and decided to go back to Dye barrels. I just prefer Dye and you can't beat the manufacture quality, it's top notch.
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Old 12-16-2016, 11:38 PM #18
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"Hit some magic thing, throw away most of results that don't suit you, voila science."

I love magic! Well said!
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