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Old 03-21-2002, 04:14 PM #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by __2UnREal__
My impressions;
Although I have not ran paint through either gun, I do know however, that the vikings have more kick to them than excals. So this could make them less accurate while playing but on a benchmount, it should be exactly the same.
If the viking has more kick then the excal then the excal must be in negative kick .. my viking doesn't move when I shoot it... and the excals I've shot w/o paint kick a little bit imo..

And as for one gun being more accurate then another, it's all fairy tales, just put the same paint through the two guns w/ the same barrel and you'll notice that they shoot no differently.. unless the excal/viking is more consistent then the other.

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Old 03-21-2002, 05:39 PM #23
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Viking at the ICC

I'll try this again,

The gun was flawless all day. I continued to recrony it just to assure myself that the velocity was fine even though it was so quiet. 283 all day. When my other gun was that quiet it was because it was out of air

I only saw one other Viking there besides the couple at AKA's booth. But more will be showing at every tourney. Alot are being anoded right now.

About whether or not AKA is giving an accurate description of the gun or just a marketing ploy, I'm not sure. I do know that I felt like defending the gun when Eileen was describing it. Here is what was said, "Hey, so how does the viking shoot?" asked any number of players that passed. Answer given. "It is not as accurate and doesn't have the range of the Excalibur." And that's it. All they are saying is what should be understood. Our $775 open-bolt gun isn't as good as our $1200 closed bolt gun. Umm OK that tells me nothing about the gun. I prefered Aaron's answer. "It is more accurate than an Angel, (which is also open bolt,) because it runs at a much lower pressure, is easier on paint, more gas efficient and not as likely, if at all, to chop paint. And you save $500, and get a gun buit in America vs Europe so you are paying for quality not the cost to ship it." then add, but here is our Excalibur that does cost as much as an Angel but because it is a true closed bolt and by far supercedes anything on the market to date. You say something good about both products and aren't leaving someone with a negative thought in their head about the Viking, and still leaving them with a well informed ability to make their own choice, not pushing them towards the more expensive of the two.

Also, the Question should be about comparing it to the Angel anyway, more like an apples to apples comparison, I'd say. The Viking is smaller and lighter by Dan's measurments. You don't have to play with a staight shot in your hand like so many Angel users do. It is a mid to front player gun like the Angel and has more than enough speed and range to satisfy any sprayer but the accuracy for the one shot one kill buffs. I love the trigger, (totally adjustable), and it's durability and ease of maintanance make it and it's big brother the Ex, a perfect gun.

I have some other points and a funny story that happened at the ICC but I want to send this now if I can.
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Old 03-21-2002, 05:41 PM #24
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Quote:
"the viking is just has less range, less accuracy when compared to the excalibur"
*sigh*

I used to think that AKA actually had people that were fairly smart working for them. That quote proves that wrong.
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Old 03-21-2002, 05:42 PM #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by timebomb


If the viking has more kick then the excal then the excal must be in negative kick .. my viking doesn't move when I shoot it... and the excals I've shot w/o paint kick a little bit imo..

And as for one gun being more accurate then another, it's all fairy tales, just put the same paint through the two guns w/ the same barrel and you'll notice that they shoot no differently.. unless the excal/viking is more consistent then the other.

Mike
Those were my impressions from dry firing them at the LA Open. Now when I said that the excal would be more accurate. I said that because, from my impression, there would not be as much bobbing up and down from the kick of the gun so the kick would indirectly affect the accuracy. I did not mean that one gun was more accurate.
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Old 03-21-2002, 06:48 PM #26
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Dude, mine doesn't kick at all with paint yo'. I know, strike me dead for saying this, but that was what I liked about Mags when I shot one of them, No kick at all. Now I have both, A good gun and it doesn't kick,
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Old 03-22-2002, 06:58 AM #27
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Re: Viking at the ICC

Quote:
Originally posted by Chappy78
"It is not as accurate and doesn't have the range of the Excalibur."
I asked them about this claim last weekend. From my understanding, the claim is not because the Excalibur defies the laws of physics and shoots farther but rather because the Viking is not as consistent. From what I understand, the Viking has a bit more of a velocity fluctuation than the Excalibur. With this fluctuation, the balls will travel on different trajectories and will result in a larger shot pattern. Because of its design, the Excalibur is more consistent over the chrono and therefor has a tighter shot pattern. This explains the accuracy and range claim.

In other words, they're saying if you were to measure the distance and accuracy of a group of shots from an Excalibur, you'd find that variance to be smaller than an identical group of shots taken from a Viking--all of this due to the consistency of the guns.
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Old 03-22-2002, 06:23 PM #28
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OK, I understand that, but is some 16 yr old kid that just got an ok from his parents to pick out a good gun and doesn't know d*ck about physics, velocity flux, range or trajectory going to think "Oh, that must be what they mean when they say one isn't as good as the other." but all I know about paintball is I want to shoot really fast and a lot and I want something that will do that.
I just think they should say what the gun is better than, not what it is inferior to.

And for the record, I don't see how velocity flux will cause I wider grouping because my Viking has almost no flux, and it can't be much more than the Ex because almost all the parts are interchangeable. Sidewinder, tornado, board, ect. There isn't much else in there that controls the velocity besides that. The Ex has one more ram and selenoid but that doesn't do anything to the veloity does it? Please explain.
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Old 03-22-2002, 06:41 PM #29
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Like I said, that's what Larry and Aaron told me when I asked them. Aaron's the one to ask about that as he's the one who designed them and knows their advantages/disadvantages. I think it has something to do with the Excal's closed bolt design being more consistent (something about bolt timing maybe).
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Old 03-22-2002, 07:40 PM #30
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It may be because the Excal has a larger air chamber thus allowing for less shootdown at higher rates(or just less consistency). Im not saying anything for sure, just throwing ideas around.
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Old 03-22-2002, 07:45 PM #31
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How does it have a larger air chamber?
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Old 03-22-2002, 08:41 PM #32
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Re: no

Quote:
Originally posted by Kamikazic1
as I said before:
"NO, The excalibur does not have longer range than the viking IF they are both shooting 280 fps, unless the range is determined by accuracy."

accuracy does matter. if the gun shoots straighter, it will go further because the ball doesent curve as sometimes in open bolt guns, when the bolt slams it through the barrel, and not just air. if you didnt benchmount the guns for accuracy testing, you should do that. I've seen benchmounted: an excalibur and a viking, both shooting same 280 fps with max flos. well the excalibur did shoot further. the reason why is because it was more accurate than the viking; the balls went in a straiter path about 1 foot further than the viking's. the viking's path was a bit more scattered out, with less range. this is the reason closed bolt will sometimes have more range than an open bolt.

Hope that clears up peoples minds

eric
That's also clearly bull ship. The Excalibur did not shoot further if they were both using the same barrels and paint and were both shooting 280fps.

To reply to the thread, I say Viking because it costs less.
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Old 03-24-2002, 09:43 AM #33
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Yeah, you're right about that, The viking has a larger air chamber because it doesn't have the extra ram and selenoid to take up space. Almost the whole right tube is an open chamber. I don't really know if the ex is so much better that is worth the price difference. I'm leaving in about 5 min to play on an indoor airball in Kokomo. I'll let ya'll know how it does.
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Old 03-24-2002, 09:55 AM #34
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The Excalibur has a larger air chamber in front of the valve (More regulated air to propel the ball down the barrel)

The Viking has a larger LPR Air Chamber (More Low Pressure air for the solenoid)

Which would you rather have?



PS - Chappy, you don't think that the hammer that hits the valve has anything to do with the velocity in the Excalibur?
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Old 03-24-2002, 06:46 PM #35
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Yeah, it does have to do with velocity, but my question was how is the hammer hitting the valve in the Excal different from the hammer that hits the valve in the Viking. And if there is a difference, does it make the Excalibur more consistent from shot to shot?
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Old 03-24-2002, 07:12 PM #36
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I think this is how it works:

Excal - One solenoid is attached to the bolt, the other is attached to the hammer which hits the sear.

Viking - Only needs one solenoid because the hammer is attached to the bolt.
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Old 03-24-2002, 09:38 PM #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kamikazic1
mr_pollock, read it again, and you will notice that i was talking about *range determined by accuracy* and not just the range between the two. but you never know, i could have been seeing things, BUT, thats what i saw, and ill stand by it.



Now that ive seen all this crap going on, i dont think it matters anyway, when your ona 120ft speedball field, your not going to notice any of that, especially in the back.

No they two guns are exactly the same frame and design (not internally), and the excal doesn't have a larger air chamber.

later
The bull ship is you saying that closed bolt will sometimes have more range than open bolt, and that's bull ship.
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Old 03-24-2002, 10:32 PM #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chappy78
Yeah, it does have to do with velocity, but my question was how is the hammer hitting the valve in the Excal different from the hammer that hits the valve in the Viking. And if there is a difference, does it make the Excalibur more consistent from shot to shot?
The Excal hammer is enclosed and only does one thing... It hits the valve.

The Viking hammer is exposed and does two things... Hits the valve, and cycles the bolt.

Which is going to be easier to externally manipulate? The Viking. Paint, oil, debris, any of this stuff gets on the bolt and it will affect how the hammer is going to impact the valve. That is going to be the difference in consistency.
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Old 03-28-2002, 04:16 PM #39
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Thanks Sully,
That was what I didn't understand, Now new question, Would you feel equally as confident in the guns ability to perform to your expectations walking onto a field no matter which you had in your hand. I know the differences now and I know the plus's and minus's to each, So do they even each other out?
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Old 03-28-2002, 04:20 PM #40
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What on earth are you talking about Chappy... there is no difference between closed bolt and open, hell as soon as you're shooting fast a closed bolt is basically an open bolt. Please try and realize that before you make yourself sound like more of a fool.

I feel dumber for owning a Viking because of all the rumors and crap that follow it, for instance.. a kid came up to me sunday asking to see the range on it. How much farther are people going to take this? Christ all mighty. If there's going to be any reason that the Excal shoots "better" it's going to be because it's so slow, and the less recoil (if there's such a thing, because my Viking doesn't kick at all..)

Mike
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Old 03-28-2002, 04:24 PM #41
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Re: mr_pollock

Quote:
Originally posted by Kamikazic1
RANGE DETERMINED BY ACCURACY!!!!!! ACCURACY DETERMINES RANGE!!!!! MR POLLOCK YOU NEED TO LOOK AT WHAT I WROTE.

but remember, mr pollock IT DOESN'T MATTER when your on a 120 ft sball feild.

And what makes one more accurate than the other? You are bull ship.
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Old 03-28-2002, 05:11 PM #42
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What Sully is talking about is the fact that the Viking is inherently less consistent than the Excalibur because the hammer is slaved to the bolt, meaning that anything that affects the travel/speed of the bolt is going to affect the speed at which the hammer hits the valve. If the hammer hits the valve at a slower speed, the valve is not going to stay open as long. That means less air to the ball and therefor a slower velocity. If you want to see this in action, rest your finger on the top of the pull pin when you fire (be sure to apply some pressure). When you shoot over a chronograph, you should see the velocity drop off.

Timebomb, you do realize that Sully was the one who assembled your Viking, right? He's AKA's number one tech.
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