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Old 06-21-2001, 08:08 AM #1
meanpeoplereallysuck
 
 
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Excalibur questions

I was thinking about saving my *** off to buy an excalibur or an angel. I was going to get an impluse for awhile, but decided it was a waste of money, going from a cocker to an impulse. so anyway. Why should I get an excalibur over an angel, or vice versa? Also, what is the cheapest place to get an excalibur?
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Old 06-21-2001, 10:50 AM #2
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Without getting into a lot of history, the Excalibur is better than an Angel in a lot of different ways. 1, it's LP and highly efficient out of the box. 2, it's more consistant across the chrono. 3, customer support is far superior than WDP. 4, with less than 250 of them in the field it's not a run of the mill marker. 5, it's closed bolt. 6, it's semi only so it's already approved for the 2002 NPPL season.

The only thing the Angel has over the Excalibur is that it has a higher ROF from the factory. The Excalibur is adjustable but only via the data link cable which is on back order from the contractor making them for AKA. However in playing with the Excalibur 10.5 BPS is more than adequate. It's a true 10.5 measured with an ocilliscope and via digitizing a video clip and analyizing the audio stream. The Angel estimates the ROF and shows it to be higher than it actually is. In comparing the LCD ROF and the ROF over a new FPS/BPS Chrono the Angel was 3-5 BPS faster than the chrono readings. This also coincides with the audio stream analysis I've done of the Angel.

Look through the other threads. There's a lot of information in them which can answer your questions.

Dan
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Old 06-21-2001, 11:10 AM #3
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hehe.

I thought that the angel LCD reports an estimate on ROF. Cool

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Old 06-21-2001, 04:52 PM #4
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why does it estimate? its got a trip counter and a timer. all it would have to do is divide balls fired over time and you'd have it
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Old 06-21-2001, 05:09 PM #5
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It counts pulses going into the micro and references it against the internal clock. Problem is that it also counts bounces and spikes. This gives a higher count and therefore it has to be given as an estimation. If they buffered the input with a capacitor it would lessen the electronic bounces and spikes and give a more accurate count. Problem with that is all of a sudden the Angels aren't shooting 16+ BPS. They're shooting 9-12 BPS. Everyone would think WDP has slowed them down or theirs is defective. WDP has to keep the estimation factor up for this reason.

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Old 06-21-2001, 05:34 PM #6
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i'm confused... on the akalmp webpage, it says that the gun shoots 13bps, and the trigger is 3 point adjustable.
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Old 06-21-2001, 06:00 PM #7
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it can be adjusted to 13bps with the link, but from the factory it's 10.5.
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Old 06-21-2001, 06:47 PM #8
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how much is the link, where can i get it, and when will it be back in stock?
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Old 06-21-2001, 10:09 PM #9
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You forgot that the Excalibur:

1. Is heavier
2. Is more bulky
3. Is ugly and can't be reanodized with stock finish.
4. Has what may be a useless stock barrel to some(.684")
5. May be more expensive.
6. Runs on 9vlts, which you may or may not like, nobody seems to know how long they are supposed to last though.
7. Has few aftermarket parts for it, less avenues for personal customizing.

As far as AKA having better customer service than WDP, suuuure.

Maybe if you live 30 minutes away and are on a sponsored team....
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Old 06-21-2001, 10:43 PM #10
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meanpeoplereallysuck, the trigger has 3 adjustment points. Firing point, back travel after the gun is fired and before travel before the gun is fired. Thus making your trigger much more customizable.



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Old 06-23-2001, 09:18 PM #11
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Why cant you reannodize from the stock finish?


EDIT: Ok, so its an industrial black and it will damage the body, could you strip their guns if you sent them for green acid wash or would that also damage the body? If you can strip normal anno just not their stock black, they should just use normal anno from the get go.

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Old 06-24-2001, 12:48 PM #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Styles *****ley
You forgot that the Excalibur:

1. Is heavier
2. Is more bulky
3. Is ugly and can't be reanodized with stock finish.
4. Has what may be a useless stock barrel to some(.684")
5. May be more expensive.
6. Runs on 9vlts, which you may or may not like, nobody seems to know how long they are supposed to last though.
7. Has few aftermarket parts for it, less avenues for personal customizing.

As far as AKA having better customer service than WDP, suuuure.

Maybe if you live 30 minutes away and are on a sponsored team....
SB do you not like your excal anymore? whats goin on
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Old 06-25-2001, 07:27 AM #13
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No, so far I like my Excalibur a lot and would recommend one to anybody.

I'm just trying to offer a well rounded nonbiased opinion.
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Old 06-25-2001, 10:58 AM #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Styles *****ley
You forgot that the Excalibur:

1. Is heavier
2. Is more bulky
3. Is ugly and can't be reanodized with stock finish.
4. Has what may be a useless stock barrel to some(.684")
5. May be more expensive.
6. Runs on 9vlts, which you may or may not like, nobody seems to know how long they are supposed to last though.
7. Has few aftermarket parts for it, less avenues for personal customizing.

As far as AKA having better customer service than WDP, suuuure.

Maybe if you live 30 minutes away and are on a sponsored team....
I disagree with the first 3 in that they are both about the same weight, I don't think it's bulky and it's not supposed to be a fashion show in the stock form. Just as the stock Angels are pretty plain Jane so are the base stock Excaliburs. Look at the next generation of ano'ing and milling that's coming out. I like the feel of my Excalibur beter than the Angels I've owned and shot. It's more intuitive on snap shooting and has a more natural feel. (I used to shoot comp firearms.) My stock barrel is a .687 and I use it on a lot of different paint. As far as the battery. I like being able to replace it easily. How many people put their Angels on charge between games? I've seen a lot of them in cars plugged into the lighter. It's primary design was function more than personal custimazation (SP?). It doesn't need anything to achieve LP like other guns. I don't need to replace the hammer, valve, bolt, barrel LPR, HPR or anything else to increase performance or efficiency. At the Chicago NPPL this last weekend I saw 6+ Angel techs working on guns almost constantly. There were 3-6 Excalibur techs there and we didn't have to work on a single gun. I worked on more Defiants that anything else.
I still think the customer service is better at AKA. Yes, I'm a sponsored player but I've dealt with them for years with their valves and bolts as well as their 'Cocker bodies. I thought the same before our sponsorship and unless something major happens will continue to think the same.

These are all my personal opinions and I stand behind them 100%.

Dan
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Old 06-25-2001, 08:03 PM #15
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Well, as far as battery, looks, etc, that is personal preference.

The Excal weighs a little more, but is better balanced so you don't really notice when shooting. It has a much better feel i think. As far as size it's bigger than an Angel, that is a fact, but not by much.

However I don't think anyone out there would rather have a dull finished $1200 gun over a glossy one that a barrel would match, I mean c'mon. And looks are very important to people. No it's not a fashion show, but when somebody invests that much in a marker they want something that is pleasing to the eye. Again, preference, I myself like the way my stock Excalibur looks, but I know it's a turnoff to many.

The reason you see more Angels being worked on at a tourney is simple math. Count how many you see on the field working perfectly vs. how many are being tuned/serviced. There is probably TWENTY times as many Angels as Excaliburs if not more out there, so really that arguement has little or no basis I feel.
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Old 06-26-2001, 09:34 AM #16
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larger than an angel?
it is slightly taller, but it is also about an inch or 2 shorter.
& yes, a feather might be lighter.
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Old 06-29-2001, 01:48 AM #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Auctionjunkie!
2, it's more consistant across the chrono.
stock, yes. overall, no.
Quote:
3, customer support is far superior than WDP.
yeah, ok. try again.
Quote:
4, with less than 250 of them in the field it's not a run of the mill marker.
what happens when excals become popular? either 'run-of-the-mill' or '6 month waiting list'
Quote:
5, it's closed bolt.
and.....?
Quote:
6, it's semi only so it's already approved for the 2002 NPPL season.
that could be a legitimate reason if WDP doesn't issue/program boards to be NPPL legal for free
Quote:

The only thing the Angel has over the Excalibur is that it has a higher ROF from the factory.
Can anybody say.... years of tournament proven performance and reliability? I guess that's not worth anything these days
Quote:
It's a true 10.5 measured with an ocilliscope and via digitizing a video clip and analyizing the audio stream. The Angel estimates the ROF and shows it to be higher than it actually is. In comparing the LCD ROF and the ROF over a new FPS/BPS Chrono the Angel was 3-5 BPS faster than the chrono readings. This also coincides with the audio stream analysis I've done of the Angel.
A guy by the name of Curt from KM2 (designers of Glacier/Gabriel/Genesis aftermarket boards) originally came up with the theory that the LCD artificially inflated the ROF on Doc Nickel's message boards, he later did further detailed testing and retracted all of his statements.


I'm not an Excal-hater, I think they're awesome markers and will be incredibly successful. I just thought the Angel would be torn to shreds in this forum, I'm just trying to balance it a little.
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Old 06-29-2001, 01:57 AM #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Auctionjunkie!

As far as the battery. I like being able to replace it easily. How many people put their Angels on charge between games?
not many, charges last forever, even with intellifeed.
Quote:
It doesn't need anything to achieve LP like other guns.
Who wants to achieve LP? I don't see the benefit in it personally. I've owned Angels, Shockers, and 'cockers.
Quote:
At the Chicago NPPL this last weekend I saw 6+ Angel techs working on guns almost constantly. There were 3-6 Excalibur techs there and we didn't have to work on a single gun. I worked on more Defiants that anything else.
I like how you guys contradict yourself. When someone talks about the number of tourney players who shoot Excals you're quick to say "There's only like 200 in existence". Judging from that statement, how many of those were at the Chicago NPPL. I'm betting not that many. Take into consideration better than half of the NPPL shoots Angels, alot of them being a couple of years old and needing service and basic tuneups. That's one of the worst arguments I've heard next to, "Excals shoot farther."
Quote:
I still think the customer service is better at AKA. Yes, I'm a sponsored player but I've dealt with them for years with their valves and bolts as well as their 'Cocker bodies. I thought the same before our sponsorship and unless something major happens will continue to think the same.
We'll see how their service holds up when they sell 5,000 Excals.
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Old 06-29-2001, 06:11 PM #19
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[quote]Originally posted by BlitzPA9
[b]
stock, yes. overall, no.

i think you missed the point on this one. an excal is consistant over a chrono straight out of the box. now think about it, two markers that are very close in price, yet one you have to upgrade or tweak to get that consistancy. what would you want if you where spending that much money??


[b]
Can anybody say.... years of tournament proven performance and reliability? I guess that's not worth anything these days
[b]
ok, can you say years of testing to get every thing just right BEFORE they release it!


and on the low pressure topic, the lpr in my excal is set at 70psi, some have them set to around 60psi, this marker WILL NOT CHOP A BALL, period. i take that back, if the battery is to low it might, thats the only time. plus i get almost 1600 shots on a full fill with my pe 45/4500, ( once again, out of the box)can your angel do that? didn't think so.

not to mention if you have the chance to take an excal apart & compare it to an angel, you'll see the time that aka has invested in improving on all the little stuff & over all design. like the lenth of threads( nothing is going to snap off), every thing is simple and easy to work with, if dirt gets into the bolt carrier( linkage or whatever) it won't matter( unlike the angel which will more than likely lock up. & there's no jamming a squegee down the barrel to reset the bolt( which always happens at the worst possible time).
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Old 06-29-2001, 09:09 PM #20
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yup i agree about the dirt thing. a teamate of mine has a cobra angel and tourny we were at had a real dust problem. twice in the middle of the game his gun stops firing, he tries to free it by putting a squeegie down the barrel but nothing works. later we find all kinds of dirt in the hammer chamber which was causing the gun to jam. im not saying for sure that this wouldnt happen with an excal but of our five guns the angel was the only one to jam.
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Old 06-29-2001, 09:15 PM #21
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oh and as far as the semi only board for nppl, wdp has said that their current boards should be allowed because of the tourny lockout mode and that they will not produce semi-only boards. they said that when the semi-only rule was only being discussed and no final decision about the rule had been reached. now that nppl has approved the new rule maybe wdp will change their minds but if not thats a big issue.
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