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Old 08-19-2004, 08:33 AM #43
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I know more rich people that work 10 times as hard as poor people. They aren't billionaires but they can practically do whatever they want.

The poor are poor for a reason. Be it substance abuse, bad habits or no work ethic. They have the same opportunities Bill Gates does.
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Old 08-19-2004, 10:45 AM #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by -=Archer=-
The poor are poor for a reason. Be it substance abuse, bad habits or no work ethic. They have the same opportunities Bill Gates does.
Well considering Gates was born into wealth, your argument is flawed. Plus there is a severe uneven distribution of wealth in thsi country and it is growing.
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Old 08-19-2004, 02:52 PM #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by Suburban
My views on life are constantly changing, I now realize the need for change. There is no reason why those rich bastards should hog all the money and filter what we see. There is no reason why hemp should not be legalized:
"Industrial hemp has 25,000 uses ranging from construction material to paper to clothing, but smoking it to get stoned is not among them"
-http://www.hemptech.com/cgi-bin/hempNEWsmaker/home.cgi?read=314

Why is it that we have a two party system? There is no way that two parties can entail all the beliefs of the people.

This country was founded with a "government of the people, by the people and for the people"
What the hell happened to that?
The reason why they "hog" all the money is because they earned it.

Hemp is legal.

We do not have a two party system. Do you know what the libertarian party is? How about the Green Party.

The reason we have 2 major parties is because of the way people vote. The government can't evenly devide the amount of people in parties; you were the one complainging about to much government control.
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Old 08-19-2004, 03:10 PM #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tiny
Well considering Gates was born into wealth, your argument is flawed. Plus there is a severe uneven distribution of wealth in thsi country and it is growing.
Fine, the poor have the same opportunities as the people that built their fortunes from the ground up and work extremely hard every day to achieve it.

As for the uneven distribution of wealth, show me a source.
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Old 08-19-2004, 03:19 PM #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by -=Archer=-
Fine, the poor have the same opportunities as the people that built their fortunes from the ground up and work extremely hard every day to achieve it.

As for the uneven distribution of wealth, show me a source.
www.census.gov
And no the poor do not have teh same opportuinties as those who are now rich. Maybe they did back when wealth distribution wasn't so guarded. But now, one needs to have to get. Give me a source of a list of recently wealthy people who came from nothing vs. wealthy who came from wealth. Educational opportunities, psychological development and social development are all needed to attain power and wealth, the poor are not afforded those opportunities, especially if a Republican is in office who wants to cut welfare and leave all of those people out in teh cold. Which BTW is yet another form of uneven wealth distribution.
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Old 08-19-2004, 03:43 PM #48
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Nooo Nooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Uneven wealth distribution is when one group gets more money taken from them, while another group is GIVEN money!
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Old 08-19-2004, 03:55 PM #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brewmaster
Nooo Nooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Uneven wealth distribution is when one group gets more money taken from them, while another group is GIVEN money!
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Old 08-19-2004, 04:33 PM #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tiny
Give me a source of a list of recently wealthy people who came from nothing vs. wealthy who came from wealth.
I don't believe they have lists for things like that...

Well, we can look at Ray Crock (McDonalds), Hershey, Domino's, and many other HUGE businesses.

It just takes one big idea from one small person and a LOT of motivation.

My father was poor growing up. He lived on a small island and his father was killed when he was 16. He was enlisted in the army (involuntarily), then paid his way through college. He started his own business at 19, owned his FIRST house when he was 21. Owned his SECOND house when he was 23, after he moved to London.

Now, he lives in the United States in one of the richest counties in NJ and America.

Not just luck, but motivation. I never want to hear about a poor person not having any opportunities in America.

And welfare is a corrupt system, THAT is why Republicans don't like it. People need to stop living in the New Deal-- but that's not the basis of this thread.
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Old 08-19-2004, 05:04 PM #51
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Right but in recent history (post 1970) the wealthy get richer and there are not many people that are able to cross from poor to wealthy.
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Old 08-19-2004, 06:21 PM #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tiny
Right but in recent history (post 1970) the wealthy get richer and there are not many people that are able to cross from poor to wealthy.
Assuming your point is valid... what exactly makes it the burden of the wealthy to correct this?
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Old 08-19-2004, 06:32 PM #53
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yeah, usa kicks ***, but we still suck...

funny thing that pissed me off:

i'm just sitting there in PE strecthing at the beginnig w/ everyone.. some lady comes in and calls me to the office... i just walk w/ her thinking my mom brought somthing. turns out my agenda was torn.. the cover..

they are making me pay for it, $10.00 and if i don't pay for it by friday (next week) then they will take up my books. how ****ed up is that? all the other **** they can be worried about, they are involved w/ me and my agenda... "its like a text book, would u rip a text book"...
no, but would i write in a text book? bc i write in my agenda. would i throw away my text books or keep my text books at the end of the year?... no but i do that to my agenda...

it really makes me mad...and for them to start taking up my text books that i use for my acidemic(splol) classes that woud jepordize my learning, which means i won't learn or pass... just for a ****ing agenda that id take home anyway... AND on top of all that she is going to try and lie to my mom saying she took it up from me.. when i left it in a class room... what a *****...


i hate my school...i love my peers... hate the school.



sorry for the swearing... but i'm mad.
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Old 08-19-2004, 06:35 PM #54
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Michael Eisner received over $450 million a year salary and was awarded a stock/cash bonus of $750 million one year. You tell me what justifies that prick earning that much money when the low people in his chain earn $6.50 an hour and without them his company couldn't be what it is.

Take away all the workers and tell me what you have!

These corporate giants are ****ing ridiculous. It has been said if minimum wage kept up with ceo raises, minimum wage would be $42 hour.

When some of the airlines needed money for a bailout, not one ceo dropped his salary from over 100million(low figure, most are higher than that) to help his company get out of debt. Instead they asked the government to bail them out. Continental chariman earned $400+million a year....wtf.

I'm sorry but the gap is too big and is flat out wrong. These rich ceo/owners did not make that company without people helping them. So instead of taking everyone to the promised land, we are choosing to forget the people who made you what you are. I'm a little miffed on this subject, so I'll back off for now.
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Old 08-19-2004, 06:48 PM #55
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Did anyone force those people to work for those companies? Did anyone give their mommy drugs before they were born so they wouldn't be smart enough to earn more? (I meant rich people or the Government, not the mommies themselves or their friends or whatever). I didn't hold anyone back. I shouldn't have to pay for their food or to support the kids they can't afford but keep having. Now, if I get a dollar for dollar tax break for charity and get to choose which people get my help, that's another matter. I don't feel guilty because some people are more successful than others. What's next? Every time a paintball team loses a game someone in the league has to pay extra so that the losers get better gear, or maybe free paintball camp? Suuuure.... Hell, I'll make a team and lose every game if I get free stuff for it. Go ahead and say I'd probably lose anyway. But it'll be lame because I'm saying it first. I'd probably lose anyway.

Why do you people insist that people are entitled to Government handouts, paid for by money extorted from people that earn money, just because the aided people are failures?
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Old 08-19-2004, 07:06 PM #56
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http://pbnation.com/showthread.php?s...77#post7052377
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Old 08-19-2004, 07:44 PM #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by bern
i dont think capitalism is a good idea, however many regulations are put on it it will just take control, like it has. it is built on the idea of competition, but i think a much more successful and efficient system could be based on cooperation.
way to jump on an uneducated bandwagon there, *** take a poli sci class, rethink what you just said, or get the **** out.
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Old 08-19-2004, 08:37 PM #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by renegade8
These corporate giants are ****ing ridiculous.
No No No! I'm sorry if minimum wage earners do not have the motivation to become as wealthy as these CEO's! They DO have the incentive. Capitalism is for the strong and the brave. Your observations are extremely obtuse.

These multi-millionaires employee thousands and thousands of people. If you invented the wheel, would you want every one of your workers to get just as much as you do? I don't believe so. It is YOUR idea!

Why don't I get a job as a tech at Microsoft and complain that Bill gets more? I'm sure they will say, "Well, Alec, you have a point. We're going to give you and every employee at Microsoft a large cut of what Bill makes. After all, it is not like this is Bill Gate's enterprise and not yours!"

Realize that you are speaking from a helpless point of view. You are degrading capitalism to the point where you actually believe it is extremely flawed. For that, I wonder if you will ever expoit capitalism for all it is offered.

After all, capitalism thrives on those who exploit the greatness and opportunity of it.
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Old 08-19-2004, 08:57 PM #59
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First off i have not had the opporotunity to take such a class, so instead of flaming me for an observation, why dont you provide evidance that that observation is wrong, as you seem to think it is.

I agree with renegade, if those coporate bastards would not be so damned greedy my tax money would not have to bail them out.

the problem with capitalism is that most peole have to be poor. not everyone can be rich. for every rich person there has to be many poor people below him, and he has to be taking a cut of their salary. it is the burden of the rich because they are the ones keeping money from the poor. i am not saying give money to those who do not work, i am saying that since sitting on your *** making decisions is no more difficult than working the drive through, those positions, all positions, should pay equally (assuming they both work the same hours).
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Old 08-19-2004, 09:25 PM #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by bern

a.) I agree with renegade, if those coporate bastards would not be so damned greedy my tax money would not have to bail them out.

b.) the problem with capitalism is that most peole have to be poor.
a.) Refer to my above post

b.) Excuse me while I glace at the word "most" again. That is not the problem with capitalism. Actually, if entrepreneurs can accellerate capitalism, most people will be very successful. There are so many people who do not aspire to be extremely successful. And, for that, they continue to work at McDonalds, which probably well supports their families in Mexico.

Capitalism isn't the bully, Communism is! Communism says to the doctors, "give me your lunch money and I'll give you milk money". Capitalism says, "give me your abilities and I'll give you what you deserve for them!"
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Old 08-19-2004, 09:44 PM #61
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a.) If i invented the wheel i would share the money i made off of it equally with everyone that helped me develop and produce it. it is only fair.

b.) even if every mcdonalds worker worked toward a mangament position, there can be only be a few managers, and there HAS to be more workers than managers. 1 manager for say 5 workers. 5 = most of 6. no matter how many people work how hard, there HAS to be more at the bottom. capitialism is structured hierarchically and therefore the bottom MUST be the largest.

c.) No, capitalism says "give me your abilities and i will exploit them for my benefit" I do not support communism. lets imagine a classless society where workers own their work and nobody has any more than anybody else. that society says "work the same and be treated the same"
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Old 08-19-2004, 09:54 PM #62
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Quote:
Originally posted by bern
a.) If i invented the wheel i would share the money i made off of it equally with everyone that helped me develop and produce it. it is only fair.

b.) even if every mcdonalds worker worked toward a mangament position, there can be only be a few managers, and there HAS to be more workers than managers. 1 manager for say 5 workers. 5 = most of 6. no matter how many people work how hard, there HAS to be more at the bottom. capitialism is structured hierarchically and therefore the bottom MUST be the largest.

c.) No, capitalism says "give me your abilities and i will exploit them for my benefit" I do not support communism. lets imagine a classless society where workers own their work and nobody has any more than anybody else. that society says "work the same and be treated the same"
a.) Haha, I thought that was mildly funny.

b.) So therefore anybody at the "bottom" must be poor? So, wait, hold on, hold on, he who is a plumber who works for a company must be poor. Wait, give me a second... of the thousands of employees for Microsoft, they ALL must be poor? All electrictians must be poor. After all, they work for a company. Saying that those at the "bottom" are poor is needless to say, untrue.

NOTE: And, yes, you did say that most people in a free-market society are poor (refer to the below quote)

Quote:
Originally posted by bern

the problem with capitalism is that most peole have to be poor.


c.) No, capitalism says "give me your abilities and I will exploit them for YOUR benefit." Rememeber, COMMUNISM says "I'll exploit them for my benefit." Please, just think about it. Capitalism gives back to he who works and knows what he is earning. Communism gives back more or less than one would deserve, and rarely what they would have rightly earned in a free-market system.

Ehem... "work the same and be treated the same"? Let me assure you, that is hardly what Communism stands for. Communism is "work according to your ability, and we'll give you the same as the other guy".
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Old 08-19-2004, 10:14 PM #63
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I was going to post but I see that P8le Dricmade has it under control.
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