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View Poll Results: <MARQUEE>Do you think Kerry can handle this nations defense?</MARQUEE>
Yes 7 21.21%
No 23 69.70%
Not sure 3 9.09%
don't care 0 0%
Voters: 33. You may not vote on this poll

 
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Old 08-17-2004, 08:46 AM #22
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Old 08-17-2004, 10:45 AM #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by SlingerXL
They were all part of the same bill doofus. Look at my next post.



Why do you keep bringing up Clinton? Did HE invade Iraq? Is HE running for President?

reason Clintons name is brought up is because he is just as responsible if not more so than Bush is for the situation currently relating to Al-Qaeda, but the left conveniently keeps forgetting that, rather opting to lay blame at Dubyas feet
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Old 08-17-2004, 10:50 AM #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by elTwitcho
WHen anti american sentiment rises, the number of people willing to blow themselves up because they hate americans also rises. When the number of people willing to blow themselves up because they hate americans rises, the number of terrorists in the world actively trying to kill americans rises. Toppling a sovereign government and then saying "well we didn't really want to listen about your rational explanations of how there are no weapons, we really thought we were gonna find some. Oh well, Saddam was a prick anyway and we did the right thing because we're America. Freedom Freedom worlds greatest country democracy freedom raaaaaa" is a good way to piss Muslims off and hence, create more terrorists.

anti-american sentiment isn't really rising amongst the muslim's, it's been fairly high for many many years, only difference is we're seeing it covered on every news show/program, where as before it wasn't given much airtime. I'd say the only place(s) that you could safely say anti-american sentiment is rising would be in Europe, with the Frogs and Germans...neither of which really have any room to criticize anyone!
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Old 08-17-2004, 11:20 AM #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by BCpro05
anti-american sentiment isn't really rising amongst the muslim's, it's been fairly high for many many years, only difference is we're seeing it covered on every news show/program, where as before it wasn't given much airtime. I'd say the only place(s) that you could safely say anti-american sentiment is rising would be in Europe, with the Frogs and Germans...neither of which really have any room to criticize anyone!
Uh, no. There were no violent protests against Americans all over the middle east and in Muslim countries in Africa before Iraq + Afghanistan (though I hate to group Afghanistan in there because that was a justified war). When the Americans moved into Afghanistan, where were all the foreign millitia fighters you see in Iraq? There is a difference between not liking America and hating America to the point you're willing to die for a chance to kill Americans. Fighting the war on terror by overthrowing governments (let alone governments that had absolutely nothing to do with terrorism) is like trying to remove cancer with a chainsaw. The war on terror is NOT being fought effectively, Al Quaeda largely got away in Afghanistan, Bin Laden is nowhere to be found and terrorists continue to operate against American targets. Instead of bringing down terrorists you're bringing down governments and you aren't doing ****.

To win the war on terror you're going to need first of all surgical precision and second of all to win the support of the muslims who are prone to joining these terror groups. If you drop a bomb on Bin Laden's house and blow him all the way to hell no Muslim that isn't already a crazy bastard is going to care. If you topple an entire government and still don't get your target you've both pissed off average Joe Mohammed and still not done anything to fight terrorism.

What Bush is doing is trying to fight a conventional war against unconventional enemies. In Iraq he hasn't accomplished ANYTHING to make America safer because he doesn't understand the nature of his enemy. If this is the person you honestly think is the one who'll make America safer you're greatly mistaken because he'll continue to fight inneffective campaigns against the wrong people as long as he's in office. National Defence my balls
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Old 08-17-2004, 12:23 PM #26
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Quote:
Uh, no. There were no violent protests against Americans all over the middle east and in Muslim countries in Africa before Iraq + Afghanistan (though I hate to group Afghanistan in there because that was a justified war).
I guess that depends on your definition... bombed US barracks, US embassies, and US ships in ports.... I guess those aren't technically "violent protests".
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Old 08-17-2004, 12:47 PM #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brewmaster
I guess those aren't technically "violent protests".
No they aren't. A protest involves large groups of people protesting something. A terrorist attack involves small groups of people killing other people. Learn to tell the distinction, thanks.
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Old 08-17-2004, 12:57 PM #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by BCpro05
anti-american sentiment isn't really rising amongst the muslim's, it's been fairly high for many many years, only difference is we're seeing it covered on every news show/program, where as before it wasn't given much airtime. I'd say the only place(s) that you could safely say anti-american sentiment is rising would be in Europe, with the Frogs and Germans...neither of which really have any room to criticize anyone!
Then YOU expanded "anti-american sentiment" to.....

Quote:
Uh, no. There were no violent protests against Americans all over the middle east and in Muslim countries in Africa before Iraq + Afghanistan (though I hate to group Afghanistan in there because that was a justified war).
Sooo.... you misinterpreted BCpro05's words to fit into your agenda.... then I said...

Quote:
I guess that depends on your definition... bombed US barracks, US embassies, and US ships in ports.... I guess those aren't technically "violent protests".
As you see, I've done basically the same thing you did, just in a more subtle manner... then you said...

Quote:
No they aren't. A protest involves large groups of people protesting something. A terrorist attack involves small groups of people killing other people. Learn to tell the distinction, thanks.
Apparently, since I said...

Quote:
I guess those aren't technically "violent protests".
... I don't need to...

Quote:
Learn to tell the distinction
...so get back on the porch, if there's any room left ( Slinger LOL)

Quote:
thanks.
You're welcome.
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Old 08-17-2004, 01:11 PM #29
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That doesn't even make sense. You didn't "do the same thing I did" your post doesn't even follow any logical train of thought.
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Old 08-17-2004, 01:19 PM #30
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Quote:
That doesn't even make sense. You didn't "do the same thing I did" your post doesn't even follow any logical train of thought.
Yes, I did almost exactly what you did. I twisted your post to meet my own agenda, just as you twisted BC's post to meet yours. Everything I posted follows a logical train of thought, although the part about the porch may have been lost on the culturally unaware.
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Old 08-17-2004, 01:27 PM #31
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I didn't twist a post.

The emaning of his post was that anti-american sentiment was always present you just never see it talked about on the news.

I replied to his post that American sentiment is higher now as you can see by the unprecedented anti american demonstrations at the outset of the American war.


There wasn't any twisting involved, so I don't see where the logic is in your post.
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Old 08-17-2004, 01:33 PM #32
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You redefined his term of "anti-american sentiment" with the example of region-wide protests that did not exist before the events which you are against. I redefined your term of "violent protests" with examples of terrorist acts. Both of us chose examples that do not inclusively embody the terms we redefined. The difference is that I know I did it, and apparently you don't know that you did.
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Old 08-17-2004, 01:37 PM #33
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I didn't redefine anti-american sentiment. I used the examples of protests because those are widespread shows of anti american sentiment. You can safely assume that all the people at the protest, protesting america can be said to harbor anti american feelings. Therefore you can say that large numbers of people who are vocally anti american can be seen as large numbers of people who have anti american sentiment.

Nowhere did I redefine, twist, manipulate or anything else.
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Old 08-17-2004, 01:46 PM #34
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Well, I can say that people that blow up American government property and personnel are violently protesting the US....

If you don't even realize you're cherry picking definitions to support your anti-war position, you're not ready for me yet.

Even if your intent was as you now say, you didn't express it properly. It may seem to you that you did, since you know what you meant, but from outside of your head all I can go on is your words.
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Old 08-17-2004, 01:47 PM #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by zack
Maybe, we'll have to see.
hopefully not.
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Old 08-17-2004, 01:53 PM #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brewmaster
Well, I can say that people that blow up American government property and personnel are violently protesting the US....

If you don't even realize you're cherry picking definitions to support your anti-war position, you're not ready for me yet.

Even if your intent was as you now say, you didn't express it properly. It may seem to you that you did, since you know what you meant, but from outside of your head all I can go on is your words.
I think everyone else can understand what I said pretty clearly. If you can't read simple English maybe it's you who aren't ready for me.

I never said those people who blow up American personnel are not anti american, but you can't use that as an example of widespread anti american sentiment because those are obviously the acts of a few isolated individuals. If your best example that alot of people disliked america to the point of hatred before the war is that a few dozen people killed americans then your argument doesn't have a leg to stand on.

I expressed myself quite clearly so don't get upset that between your disjointed thought process and terrible example you couldn't get your point across or understand a basic conversation.
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Old 08-17-2004, 01:56 PM #37
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You really don't understand.....
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Old 08-17-2004, 01:59 PM #38
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You really don't communicate effectively
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Old 08-17-2004, 02:07 PM #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by elTwitcho
Uh, no. There were no violent protests against Americans all over the middle east and in Muslim countries in Africa before Iraq + Afghanistan (though I hate to group Afghanistan in there because that was a justified war). When the Americans moved into Afghanistan, where were all the foreign millitia fighters you see in Iraq? There is a difference between not liking America and hating America to the point you're willing to die for a chance to kill Americans. Fighting the war on terror by overthrowing governments (let alone governments that had absolutely nothing to do with terrorism) is like trying to remove cancer with a chainsaw. The war on terror is NOT being fought effectively, Al Quaeda largely got away in Afghanistan, Bin Laden is nowhere to be found and terrorists continue to operate against American targets. Instead of bringing down terrorists you're bringing down governments and you aren't doing ****.

To win the war on terror you're going to need first of all surgical precision and second of all to win the support of the muslims who are prone to joining these terror groups. If you drop a bomb on Bin Laden's house and blow him all the way to hell no Muslim that isn't already a crazy bastard is going to care. If you topple an entire government and still don't get your target you've both pissed off average Joe Mohammed and still not done anything to fight terrorism.

What Bush is doing is trying to fight a conventional war against unconventional enemies. In Iraq he hasn't accomplished ANYTHING to make America safer because he doesn't understand the nature of his enemy. If this is the person you honestly think is the one who'll make America safer you're greatly mistaken because he'll continue to fight inneffective campaigns against the wrong people as long as he's in office. National Defence my balls

well contrary to your belief, muslims have hated us for quite some time, only reason it seems different now is because the events of the past 3 years, and most importantly the MEDIA! The "camel humpers" have always hated us and always will, and with the backing of countries that support terrorists ie: Iran, Syria etc (Iraq included!) they're willing to kill Americans if given the opportunity. When democracy has planeted roots in Iraq (and it will) countries such as Iran and Syria will be in a world of hurt as their own people will see what happened and want what the Iraqis have, which in the end..will only benefit us, and thus terrorists will be running out of places to hide, making it easier to destroy them! which by the way, works for me!
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Old 08-17-2004, 02:08 PM #40
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oops...forgot to add something about the Canadians...oh wait! the\y don't bring much to the table so perhaps thats best left alone! ;-)
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Old 08-17-2004, 02:32 PM #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by BCpro05
reason Clintons name is brought up is because he is just as responsible if not more so than Bush is for the situation currently relating to Al-Qaeda, but the left conveniently keeps forgetting that, rather opting to lay blame at Dubyas feet
Of course the conservatives tend to convienently forget that the 9-11 commision placed almost equal blame at BOTH their feet. I'm not denying intelligence was ignored in the Clinton administration, but who's administration did it occur under? The one who took gobs of vacations his first year in office, or the other one?
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Old 08-17-2004, 02:39 PM #42
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Crap. I hate it when i do a long, well researched post and then forget to copy it before i try to post and find out PBN signed me out.....

elTwitcho.... your definition of "violent protest" is indefensible, as is your allegation that there were no protests before the current wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Even if I allow the addition of the word "widespread" that you added to the mix late in the debate. I'm bored, but not enough to redo my whole long post. Call it what you will, claim victory for all I care. Anyone intelligent enough for me to care what they think will see things as they are. Maybe tonight I'll come back to this thread and be more thorough again.
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