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Old 08-11-2004, 07:01 PM #22
Gagarin
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Dude..what is the good side of a city in chaos? What is the good side of looting? What that they are free to loot now? WEll thats ****ing great! Rumsfeld would have u think its all fine and dandy but how is lawlessness part of a democracy....he is just covering his *** and you are just kissing it. You can put any twist u want on it but what happened happened and you can't dispute that.
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Old 08-11-2004, 07:07 PM #23
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Quit being stupid. Like i said people will take advantage of the down time of their being no goverment in place its just common sense. Its happened in plenty of wars. The good side is that once order is restored the whole country will be better off for years to come. Its a trade,Weeks and Months of Chaos for Years and Years of Order, Peace, and Prosperity.
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Old 08-11-2004, 07:15 PM #24
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Really? What war was looting allowed while occupying troops are right next to them? Any other war the troops put in martial law and any one who breaks it gets shot in the head. You have no idea what u are tlaking aobut.
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Old 08-11-2004, 07:23 PM #25
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what the hell, are you trying to blame rumsfield for the looting?
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Old 08-11-2004, 07:25 PM #26
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Its simply a matter of them not having enough troops to take care of the looting. Last time i checked getting rid of the insurgents was first priority. And with the marital law the only reason i can think of that we dont declare martial law is that we are trying to make the new Iraq officials to make their own decisions, The US has said though that we would help enforce martial law if it is declared. YOU seem to be the one not knowing what u are talking about.
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Old 08-11-2004, 07:27 PM #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Azzkicka
what the hell, are you trying to blame rumsfield for the looting?
\

he seems to like blaming the Bush Administration when Bad things happen
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Old 08-11-2004, 08:16 PM #28
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Wow you guys are both ****ing morons...the looting happened as saddams army fell. American troops were in bagdad and were told not ot do any thing about the looting and civil unrest going on by rumsfelt even tho his generals told him it was a bad idea ot let everyone wild out. There were no ****ing insurgents there at that time..do you guys have ANY idea of what happened/happening in iraq?

IT IS Rumsfelds fault because accoriding to the geneva conventions it is the DUTY of the occupying force to ensure safety and basic functions such as water and medical (whic hwas disrupted by the looting) and his refusal to let the troops do thier job is what caused the looting...do i have to hold your hand and drag you screaming to every logical point?

There are 150,000 american troops in Iraq..after Saddam's Army fell...what exactly where they too busy doing to not be able to put down the local population? There was no Iraqi gov at the tiem so who can say no to Martial Law? Seriosuly..please stop posting here, you have no concept of whats goign on in iraq...you are jsut argueing this because you love bush and not because you are presenting a different logical argument.
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Old 08-11-2004, 09:20 PM #29
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http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/5553487.htm?1c

READ the headline and the first paragraph.

And wtf are u talking about that there were no insurgents at the time? There were pockets of resistance......

Also why do u think Rumsfeld didnt allow them to be shot on sight? At the time looters werent the number one priority shooting them on sight would cause even more chaos and bloodshed netherless looters were handled with in nonviolent ways. Also it would cause relations with the Iraqi people to go for the worse. Its screwed up i know but war is not only involved Militarily but Politically.
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Old 08-11-2004, 09:34 PM #30
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can't see that
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Old 08-11-2004, 09:41 PM #31
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I'll say it agian..so you can understand me...THERE WHERE NO INSURGENTS IN IRAQ DURING THAT TIME. Wow you are uninformed...the insurgents came after the guerrilla war started....this looting was in the lul of power before the iraqi gov was setup and after the Iraqi army fell.....

What other priority was there? THere was no iraqi or medhi army fighting them at that point....the guerilla war didn't start till everything settled down.
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Old 08-11-2004, 09:48 PM #32
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So between March 2003 and June 2004 there were no insurgents? sorry I don't see your logic..

*edit*

For clarification you're saying that no 'insurgents' started until after the guerrilla war started. From my experience IN IRAQ. This whole war has been fought on a guerrilla front. So please clarify...I'm dying to know just when people there stopped being "guerrilla" fighters and became insurgents...
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Old 08-11-2004, 10:17 PM #33
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What you gotta understand is there are distinctions in words like insurgents, terrorists, guerillas and resistance fighters.

When you hear on the news the word "insurgent" they are reffering to foreign nationals fighting in iraq. Resistantce fighters are native iraqis. The Mehdi army are resistance fighters. Foreign insurgents joined them after the conflict in fallujah started April 2004...the month when more americans died Iraq then any other. End of combat operations was called in May 2nd 2003 and the major resistance against the US troops started Aprill 2004. The looting Began April 9 2003 and ended April 27 2003...and the first insurgent attack was Aug 2003 on the Jordanian embassy. During Aprill 2003 there where a hand full of minor attacks on US troops..what exactly where they so busy fighitng that they couldn't stop the looting.?

You are 10 pounds of **** in a 5 pound bag.
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Old 08-11-2004, 10:21 PM #34
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Well Gagrin, it's real easy to sit in the safety of your home and critique every little thing isn't it?

What were we fighting? Do you know ANYTHING that went on in Baghdad after we went in there? Like I said it should make you feel better that you're in the safety of your own home and not worrying about when/where that next mortar or gun shot is comming from.

How about they were protecting THEMSELVES???? I know it's such the wrong thing to do in that situation because the death of hundreds and thousands of US troops is just fine with you because we needed to be stopping looters and not be concerned with 'handfuls of iraqi snipers and iraqis with rpgs' that wanted to kill us.

You arrogant, self absorbed little piece of filth.
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Old 08-11-2004, 10:39 PM #35
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First off i served in the millitary like every male in my country.
Second off you ever hear of a place called Chechnya? It makes Bagdad look like a walk in central park. You are *****ing about Iraqis....the Chechnians would make you crap your pants. Dont give me no bull**** aobtu getting shot at or some bull**** about mortars...**** mortars...you get in a BMP-2 and take a ride thru the Concrete canyons of Grozny and you'll be begging for Bagdad. I was in the MVD in a scout unit which was ****ing hell..you and two other guys...no back up..riding in a light vehicle at the mercy of snipers. Dont give me any **** about being shot at.

Welcome to Grozny...Hell on earth.


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Old 08-11-2004, 10:41 PM #36
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That's funny, you being there and then not supporting the decisions of the people that were there when it came to thier troops' lives...I applaud you sir...really I do...

I love america
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Old 08-11-2004, 10:53 PM #37
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You volunteered..i didn't. I went cuz i wasn't a coward or a richboy so i had no choise. At first i had problems with fighting there because i honestly dont give a **** about Chechnya and tohguht the first war was wrong and partially i was young and scared but then i saw what was going on over there and it just all went out the window. I won two medals for bravery but thats all crap...you dont have to support your leaders to be a good soldier. Dissent is what democracy is built on and your blind following of your leaders blatently undermines everything you fought for. You are an american and you voluteered so you believe in the good of the millitary...i fight cuz i have to and to avenge friends. I can tell you from experience that if i saw osme one trying to rob someones house...id put a bullet in thier head, orders or no orders. I think you haven't seen too much combat and still ahve that civilian "everything in the world is great" kind of mentality left in you and thats good...stick with it..it will help you in civilian life.
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Old 08-12-2004, 12:01 AM #38
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You are still alive and you are in the finest country in the world.

I see how it is OK to be a Monday morning quarterback, though. We are all Patton while watching the news on our comfortable couches at home. A bit easier to denounce what has already happened instead of making something better happen.
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Old 08-12-2004, 12:34 AM #39
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Sure its easier to denounce something that has already happened..but it doesn't make the critisism wrong. When we first stormed GRozny we shelled the **** out of the city and most of the casulties where regular russian civilians like me who just stayed in Grozny thinking we'd be there soon to liberate them. Even tho it made my job going into Grozy alot easier it was still wrong and i'll never forgive Command for ordering it.

Why you guys didn't set up martial law and install curfues is beyond me. I can tell you that if we didn't have a curfue and there were civilians out at night id be dead right now.
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Old 08-12-2004, 11:15 PM #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gagarin
Sure its easier to denounce something that has already happened..but it doesn't make the critisism wrong. When we first stormed GRozny we shelled the **** out of the city and most of the casulties where regular russian civilians like me who just stayed in Grozny thinking we'd be there soon to liberate them. Even tho it made my job going into Grozy alot easier it was still wrong and i'll never forgive Command for ordering it.

Why you guys didn't set up martial law and install curfues is beyond me. I can tell you that if we didn't have a curfue and there were civilians out at night id be dead right now.
My city has a curfew of 10:00...
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Old 08-12-2004, 11:52 PM #41
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Seriously...alot of places do...its only logical for an occupying force to set up martial law to ensure everyone safety including thier own first. Guerrilas and civilians look the same...especially at night...TRUST ME.
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Old 08-14-2004, 12:18 AM #42
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Doesn't make martial law any less scary.
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