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Old 08-07-2004, 05:42 PM #1
El Presidente
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A question...

How can some of you people support George W. Bush? He has driven us into a record national debt, lost the most jobs since the Great Depression, attacked a country under false pretenses (Might I add: more innocent people were killed during the "shock and awe" period than in September 11th), created massive amounts of american hatred throughout the world, given more tax cuts to the rich, lied to give MORE money to the rich*, ****ed the enviornment more than it already was, and has overall been a sucky leader.


* Ex: The Death Tax. This tax is enforced when a member of a family dies, his family then pays a tax. The Bush Administration eliminated this tax because they said that poor farmers could lose their farm when they are forced to pay the tax. In fact, no one has ever lost a farm due to the Death Tax. EVER. And furthermore, written into it is a section that exempts farm and small business owners from paying so they will not lost their farm/business. Essentially, the rich are relieved of millions while everyone else is relieved of pennies. Another crafty scheme to move money to the richest in America.
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Old 08-07-2004, 05:44 PM #2
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Re: A question...

Quote:
Originally posted by El Presidente
How can some of you people support George W. Bush? He has driven us into a record national debt, lost the most jobs since the Great Depression, attacked a country under false pretenses (Might I add: more innocent people were killed during the "shock and awe" period than in September 11th), created massive amounts of american hatred throughout the world, given more tax cuts to the rich, lied to give MORE money to the rich*, ****ed the enviornment more than it already was, and has overall been a sucky leader.


* Ex: The Death Tax. This tax is enforced when a member of a family dies, his family then pays a tax. The Bush Administration eliminated this tax because they said that poor farmers could lose their farm when they are forced to pay the tax. In fact, no one has ever lost a farm due to the Death Tax. EVER. And furthermore, written into it is a section that exempts farm and small business owners from paying so they will not lost their farm/business. Essentially, the rich are relieved of millions while everyone else is relieved of pennies. Another crafty scheme to move money to the richest in America.
Big Corporations donate Big Money ...
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Old 08-07-2004, 05:50 PM #3
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Ah, I forgot that one. He basically ignores corrupt business that is going on because the companies donate $$$.
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Old 08-07-2004, 05:55 PM #4
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Re: A question...

Quote:
Originally posted by El Presidente
He has driven us into a record national debt, lost the most jobs since the Great Depression

I believe 9/11 caused that. Just because it happened during his term doesn't mean it's his fault


attacked a country under false pretenses (Might I add: more innocent people were killed during the "shock and awe" period than in September 11th),

Sure, Iraq was a bad idea, but lets not blame it all on Bush. We should be blaming the CIA for this. And who cares how many were killed? It's not like we're trading lives (okay, since we lost 2000 in 9/11 and we killed 200 in Iraq, it's time to leave )

created massive amounts of american hatred throughout the world,

I'll give you that one


given more tax cuts to the rich, lied to give MORE money to the rich*

Those are political issues that a lot of conservatives would stand behind. It isn't like Bush is tricking anyone here.

blah blah death tax blah blah

The death tax never made any sense to begin with.



Don't get me wrong, I'm no Bush fanboy. But I think we should be fair about these issues.
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Old 08-07-2004, 05:55 PM #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by El Presidente
Ah, I forgot that one. He basically ignores corrupt business that is going on because the companies donate $$$.
Top notch.
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Old 08-07-2004, 05:59 PM #6
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Quote:
believe 9/11 caused that. Just because it happened during his term doesn't mean it's his fault
9/11 caused massive national debt ? It COUDN'T have been the 100+ billion dollars for Iraq and cutting taxes in the face of it! Yes, losing an international trading center probably put a short term damper on the economy due to stock losses but I truly doubt the monumental deficit was casued entirely by 9-11 for 4 years.
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Old 08-07-2004, 06:02 PM #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by SlingerXL
9/11 caused massive national debt ? It COUDN'T have been the 100+ billion dollars for Iraq and cutting taxes in the face of it! Yes, losing an international trading center probably put a short term damper on the economy due to stock losses but I truly doubt the monumental deficit was casued entirely by 9-11 for 4 years.
9/11 is about more than the buildings. Airlines went under, people were afraid to travel, etc. Those are just two small examples. Not to mention invasions of Afghanistan and (arguably) Iraq would never have happened if it wasn't for 9/11.
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Old 08-07-2004, 06:12 PM #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by redraider
9/11 is about more than the buildings. Airlines went under, people were afraid to travel, etc. Those are just two small examples. Not to mention invasions of Afghanistan and (arguably) Iraq would never have happened if it wasn't for 9/11.
World powerhouse countries do not succumb to a recession and humongous deficit based on a terrorist attack.
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Old 08-07-2004, 06:17 PM #9
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Not exactly the issue at hand, but it wasn't exactly 200 for 2,000, it was more like 3,000+ (I don't know the exact figure off the top of my head) for 3,000.
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Old 08-07-2004, 06:20 PM #10
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i dont support presidents who lie
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Old 08-07-2004, 06:21 PM #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by El Presidente
Not exactly the issue at hand, but it wasn't exactly 200 for 2,000, it was more like 3,000+ (I don't know the exact figure off the top of my head) for 3,000.
Sorry, that was a typo... My point is we didn't go into Iraq to seek vengeance for lives lost in Iraq, at least not in the sense of body counts. We wanted to capture the people responsible, not kile 2000 of them to make us even.
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Old 08-07-2004, 06:23 PM #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by VictorPhreak
i dont support presidents who lie
Oops, you must hate america! Here's a list of all the presidents who have lied:
1 George Washington (1789-97) ("I thought he couldn't tell lie!", you think, but sadly, that cherry tree story was... a lie.)

2 John Adams, 1797-1801 (Federalist)

3 Thomas Jefferson, 1801-9 (Democratic-Republican)

4 James Madison, 1809-17 (Democratic-Republican)

5 James Monroe, 1817-25 (Democratic-Republican)

6 John Quincy Adams, 1825-29 (Democratic-Republican)

7 Andrew Jackson, 1829-37 (Democrat)

8 Martin Van Buren, 1837-41 (Democrat)

9 William Henry Harrison, 1841 (Whig)

10 John Tyler, 1841-45 (Whig)

11 James Knox Polk, 1845-49 (Democrat)

12 Zachary Taylor, 1849-50 (Whig)

13 Millard Fillmore, 1850-53 (Whig)

14 Franklin Pierce, 1853-57 (Democrat)

15 James Buchanan, 1857-61 (Democrat)

16 Abraham Lincoln, 1861-65 (Republican)

17 Andrew Johnson, 1865-69 (Democrat/National Union)

18 Ulysses Simpson Grant, 1869-77 (Republican)

19 Rutherford Birchard Hayes, 1877-81 (Republican)

20 James Abram Garfield, 1881 (Republican)

21 Chester Alan Arthur, 1881-85 (Republican)

22 Grover Cleveland, 1885-89 (Democrat)

23 Benjamin Harrison, 1889-93 (Republican)

24 Grover Cleveland, 1893-97 (Democrat)

25 William McKinley, 1897-1901 (Republican)

26 Theodore Roosevelt, 1901-9 (Republican)

27 William Howard Taft, 1909-13 (Republican)

28 Woodrow Wilson, 1913-21 (Democrat)

29 Warren Gamaliel Harding, 1921-23 (Republican)

30 Calvin Coolidge, 1923-29 (Republican)

31 Herbert Clark Hoover, 1929-33 (Republican)

32 Franklin Delano Roosevelt, 1933-45 (Democrat)

33 Harry S Truman, 1945-53 (Democrat)

34 Dwight David Eisenhower, 1953-61 (Republican)

35 John Fitzgerald Kennedy, 1961-63 (Democrat)

36 Lyndon Baines Johnson, 1963-69 (Democrat)

37 Richard Milhous Nixon, 1969-74 (Republican)

38 Gerald Rudolph Ford Jr , 1974-77 (Republican)

39 James Earl Carter, 1977-81 (Democrat)

40 Ronald Wilson Reagan, 1981-89 (Republican)

41 George Herbert Walker Bush, 1989-1993 (Republican)

42 William Jefferson Clinton, 1993- 2001(Democrat)

43 George W. Bush, 2001- (Republican)
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Old 08-07-2004, 06:24 PM #13
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^ u typed that all just to make a point??? ... i commend u
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Old 08-07-2004, 06:26 PM #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by SlingerXL
World powerhouse countries do not succumb to a recession and humongous deficit based on a terrorist attack.
true but none of them suffered as much as our country did and many didnt go after a terroist filled country...
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Old 08-07-2004, 06:27 PM #15
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Copy/Paste, no doubt
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Old 08-07-2004, 06:48 PM #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by PB Commando
true but none of them suffered as much as our country did and many didnt go after a terroist filled country...
Wow, how many countries have had horrible atrocities done to their people? Answer: A whole buttload. I can't think of another one who has lost 500+ BILLION dollars because of it. I am unclear on what "terrorist filled country" you are talking about. If you are talking about Iraq, you are the type of person that makes me unable to sleep at night.

SlingerXL...I told VictorPhreak to say that I'll take the heat. I get your point though, and it's a good one.
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Old 08-07-2004, 07:23 PM #17
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i was talking about Afghanistan.....

Tell me one country that lost over a thousand people and then invaded a country that has the main bulk of the terroist organization there.....

also are u counting the Iraq war with the 500 billion dollars because there is no STRONG link between them
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Old 08-07-2004, 07:41 PM #18
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I just want to add two things to this thread...

The first: Bush IS responsible for Iraq. The blame falls on his shoulders. Do you want to know why? Because he is the top of the chain of command. It is his job to judge the information he gets. Do you know why else? Because had we found nuclear weapons in Iraq (HA) he would have gotten the credit. Even if the intelligence came from the CIA he would have gotten the credit. It would have been "Yay, Bush made us safer" not "Yay, the CIA made us safer." He can't take the credit for all the good that happens and shrug off the blame for the bad. You take all or none. End of story.

Second: I will never understand how a person who considers him/herself to be a "conservative" can support a president who spends the way Bush does.
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Old 08-07-2004, 07:49 PM #19
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maybe because we support what he spends money on

id rather him spend 100 billion on iraq than 1 million on education because i consider the former a job of the government and the latter a job of the state

and dont give me this "its not the govt's job to invade sovereign nations blah blah" thats not the point im making and you know it
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Old 08-07-2004, 07:53 PM #20
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Isn't it contrary to conservative beliefs though? Isn't the government supposed to just sorta...sit back and do nothing?
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Old 08-07-2004, 08:05 PM #21
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for teh people that is.
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