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Old 08-06-2004, 01:22 PM #43
Tiny (Banned)
 
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I prefer my freedom and civil liberty to bravado and a false sense of security. Being an American I have certain inalienable rights, one of those is due process and protection from illegal search and seizure. Fear by panty waists has created a sense that delving into personal records will create an ability for our government (Who by the way can't even get a grip on the drug trade) the ability to track down terrorists. I disagree that the Patriot Act will do little more than invade our privacy and accost criminal terrorists who would have been exposed before such an act was enacted.
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Old 08-06-2004, 01:39 PM #44
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it's all about "civil liberties" untill you're personally affected by the actions we're trying to prevent...

NOW let me eat my lunch in peace!!! ;-)
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Old 08-06-2004, 01:48 PM #45
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I would rather die with my civil liberties intact than live a long life under an oppresive government. Maybe you are content to be a sheep but I am not!
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Old 08-06-2004, 03:10 PM #46
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I would rather die with my civil liberties intact than live a long life under an oppresive government. Maybe you are content to be a sheep but I am not!


read my sig.
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Old 08-06-2004, 03:49 PM #47
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jesus...I'm not saying surrender all liberties, but be willing to give as much as you take...for granted as the case may be! mostly in reference to the Patriot Act
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Old 08-06-2004, 03:57 PM #48
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"If the Germans or the French could vote in our election, at least 90 per cent would go for Kerry. And the same is probably true for most of the rest of Europe. In the Middle East and the Muslim world, President Bush is even less popular."

Isnt that obvious? Seriously, no **** they dont like Bush. No one ever likes a man that will stand up for his country and make them look like the cowards they are.
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Old 08-06-2004, 04:10 PM #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by galli2001
"If the Germans or the French could vote in our election, at least 90 per cent would go for Kerry. And the same is probably true for most of the rest of Europe. In the Middle East and the Muslim world, President Bush is even less popular."

Isnt that obvious? Seriously, no **** they dont like Bush. No one ever likes a man that will stand up for his country and make them look like the cowards they are.
Yeah, that and the world doesn't like a tyrant who destroys sovereign nations for no apparent reason too. But of course your bias must be the more accurate choice in this instance.
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Old 08-06-2004, 04:16 PM #50
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Quote:
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jesus...I'm not saying surrender all liberties, but be willing to give as much as you take...for granted as the case may be! mostly in reference to the Patriot Act
I take nothing for granted in 1787 a document was written that thousands of brave men and women have had their blood spilled and many of them died on foreign soil to protect. I take that document as a testament to my rights as an American and what I fought for and bled in Bosnia for. I refuse to give away any of those rights, and I clearly and loudly voice that opinion (which by the way is one of those rights listed) I believe in your right to govern yourself and that the Government is there to simply defend without infringing on my rights to govern myself. I think James Russel Lowell said it best "Democracy gives every man a right to be his own oppressor." and as Martin Luther King said "If a man hasn't discovered something that he would die for, he is not fit to live." I would die for the freedoms granted in our Constitution how about you?
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Old 08-06-2004, 06:12 PM #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tiny
I take nothing for granted in 1787 a document was written that thousands of brave men and women have had their blood spilled and many of them died on foreign soil to protect. I take that document as a testament to my rights as an American and what I fought for and bled in Bosnia for. I refuse to give away any of those rights, and I clearly and loudly voice that opinion (which by the way is one of those rights listed) I believe in your right to govern yourself and that the Government is there to simply defend without infringing on my rights to govern myself. I think James Russel Lowell said it best "Democracy gives every man a right to be his own oppressor." and as Martin Luther King said "If a man hasn't discovered something that he would die for, he is not fit to live." I would die for the freedoms granted in our Constitution how about you?
Simply put, yes...I would die for the freedoms we're afforded, "but" I also believe that the Constitution definitely needs revisiting and restructuring in accordance with the new era we're finding ourselves in...but that will be addressed when Dubya wins this Nov. :-)
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Old 08-06-2004, 06:22 PM #52
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Quote:
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Simply put, yes...I would die for the freedoms we're afforded, "but" I also believe that the Constitution definitely needs revisiting and restructuring in accordance with the new era we're finding ourselves in...but that will be addressed when Dubya wins this Nov. :-)
I fear if dubya wins, that he will attempt to corrupt our constitution worse than he has already, and possibly start a new American civil war, once the rednecks figure otu what he is doing they may strike. But hey, this is all conjecture and opinion anyway.
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Old 08-06-2004, 09:36 PM #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by BCpro05
Simply put, yes...I would die for the freedoms we're afforded, "but" I also believe that the Constitution definitely needs revisiting and restructuring in accordance with the new era we're finding ourselves in...but that will be addressed when Dubya wins this Nov. :-)
The constitution is timeless. It will never be changed so help me god. If Bush tries to change it anymore than adding a ridiculous gay marriage ban I will personally devote all my time and belongings to stop him. Bush has been wringing this faceless terrorist threat the entire time of his presidency hoping for a collective enemy like the jews were to the Germans. Terrorism isn't anything new and so far the only terrorist attacks that have been seriously brought on our soil has been by Al Queda. Al Queda is only together in small bands now and it seems without a strong and powerful leader. Bush is just trying to scare the public into backing him.
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Old 08-06-2004, 11:19 PM #54
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Tiny- If there werent any apparent reason to go into Iraq or Afganistan, then give me a reason why we went into Bosnia?
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Old 08-06-2004, 11:26 PM #55
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I'm still pissy that Dean lost. Goddammit. I hate the media.
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Old 08-06-2004, 11:54 PM #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tiny
I prefer my freedom and civil liberty to bravado and a false sense of security.
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

-Benjamin w00t Franklin

Yes, his middle name is w00t.
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Old 08-07-2004, 12:28 AM #57
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Quote:
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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

-Benjamin w00t Franklin

Yes, his middle name is w00t.
Already been posted.
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Old 08-07-2004, 12:51 AM #58
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I lose.
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Old 08-08-2004, 03:39 PM #59
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I lose.
Indeed.
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Old 08-08-2004, 04:06 PM #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by SlingerXL
The constitution is timeless. It will never be changed so help me god. If Bush tries to change it anymore than adding a ridiculous gay marriage ban I will personally devote all my time and belongings to stop him. Bush has been wringing this faceless terrorist threat the entire time of his presidency hoping for a collective enemy like the jews were to the Germans. Terrorism isn't anything new and so far the only terrorist attacks that have been seriously brought on our soil has been by Al Queda. Al Queda is only together in small bands now and it seems without a strong and powerful leader. Bush is just trying to scare the public into backing him.
how can a liberal say the constitution is timeless? the constitution calls for a limited government dealing solely with the protection of the people and their rights. Liberalism is all for the government finding new ways to "help" people which is not in the constitution at all.

and as for the gay marriage thing, i think bush just wants to establish a legal definition of marraige so that the idea of civil unions can start to take form
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Old 08-08-2004, 04:53 PM #61
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Quote:
Originally posted by atticus_finch
how can a liberal say the constitution is timeless? the constitution calls for a limited government dealing solely with the protection of the people and their rights. Liberalism is all for the government finding new ways to "help" people which is not in the constitution at all.

and as for the gay marriage thing, i think bush just wants to establish a legal definition of marraige so that the idea of civil unions can start to take form
The constitution doesn't call for a limited government. It just says the basics of what the government must do and everything else is up to the people.

Why not just let the damn gays get married? It's not hurting anyone and it cuts down on sex outside wedlock, and possibly infidelity. It's merely an expression of undying love for that other person.
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Old 08-08-2004, 04:57 PM #62
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i shouldnt say limited per se, more like a government that doesnt overstep its bounds. I would argue that it has gone way too far

hmmmm u just said to leave everything up to the people, yet the majority of the country is against gay marriage
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Old 08-10-2004, 12:49 AM #63
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Quote:
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hmmmm u just said to leave everything up to the people, yet the majority of the country is against gay marriage
I'm not gonna hijack this thread so I'll make a new one about it.
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