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Old 08-09-2004, 08:54 AM #106
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hubris
How does using drugs increase crime after it's legalized?

As for injury and death; Survey says...User Discretion! [/dingdingding]

As for the accidents, I have two words to say: "Drunk driving." Do you think we should outlaw alcohol too?
The problem is all the nonsense it has caused before it has been legalized. and there still will be problems even after it is cuz kids will still want to get their hands on it.

and as for drunk driving, lock them up and take their licenses away for life
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Old 08-09-2004, 10:42 AM #107
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Originally posted by kameleon
I still cant see how you can believe this. Is it because some acclaimed philosopher said so are are you just ignorant? You say that logic and morals go hand in hand yet culture has nothing to do with them.

Sure to you and me the idea of a KKK member lynching someone is horrific and most definitley wrong but to him, because of his culture and how he was raised, it is perfectly acceptable. That is how morals work, everyone doesnt agree on them and they never will. In the same way that everyone will never agree that there are such things a "Ultimate moral truths" because to me and alot of other people that phrase is an oxymoron in itself.
Sure that is how they were raised, but that doesn't mean it is moral. And yes you are right, people will not always agree on morals, simply because you are raised to believe something doesn't mean it is right. What you are referring to is once again Cultural Relativism. Culture does have something to do with it, but its part is the deciever. Culture blinds us of what is universely true. Do you believe there are Natural Human Rights? This goes hand in hand with ultimate Moral Truths. Although in the case of human rights there are natural rights and then simply government given rights.

I believe what I believe because as a Philosophy/History major, Ive done my deal of research in moral philosophy and have read a good number of books on the topic. James Rachels (the author) is not some cult leader Im blindly following, his statements made in "The Elements of Moral Philosophy" reflect the basic thoughts from the philosophical academic community. Im not just talking out of my *** here on the message board for the hell of it.
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Old 08-09-2004, 10:43 AM #108
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Quote:
Originally posted by SlingerXL
I'll check it out next time I head on out to Barnes and Nobel probably next weekend. Even though it's not even on topic, The New Media Monopoly, is a fantastic unbiased (liberal/conservative) book on media monopolies and how so few companies control so much of our media. Yeah, completely off topic but good stuff.
I'll check it out. I've heard a lot of talk about this topic and dont really know a lot about it so this should help me out.
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Old 08-09-2004, 02:28 PM #109
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Quote:
Originally posted by atticus_finch
The problem is all the nonsense it has caused before it has been legalized. and there still will be problems even after it is cuz kids will still want to get their hands on it.
So you're point is that we shouldn't legalize it because kids will still want it?

Quote:
Originally posted by atticus_finch
and as for drunk driving, lock them up and take their licenses away for life
That was a little too Limbaugh-ey for my taste.

Last edited by SlingerXL : 08-09-2004 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 08-09-2004, 02:30 PM #110
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vladmir
I'll check it out. I've heard a lot of talk about this topic and dont really know a lot about it so this should help me out.


Without trying to sound too much like sucking up, we need more vladmir's on this forum. People that actually look up topics before expressing usually their parent's ideals.

Last edited by SlingerXL : 08-09-2004 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 08-09-2004, 03:12 PM #111
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vladmir
Sure that is how they were raised, but that doesn't mean it is moral. And yes you are right, people will not always agree on morals, simply because you are raised to believe something doesn't mean it is right. What you are referring to is once again Cultural Relativism. Culture does have something to do with it, but its part is the deciever. Culture blinds us of what is universely true. Do you believe there are Natural Human Rights? This goes hand in hand with ultimate Moral Truths. Although in the case of human rights there are natural rights and then simply government given rights.

I believe what I believe because as a Philosophy/History major, Ive done my deal of research in moral philosophy and have read a good number of books on the topic. James Rachels (the author) is not some cult leader Im blindly following, his statements made in "The Elements of Moral Philosophy" reflect the basic thoughts from the philosophical academic community. Im not just talking out of my *** here on the message board for the hell of it.
And the only reason you believe in this the way that you do is because of your culture and how you were raised. "Absolute Moral Truths" are just another a example of "cultural relativsm."
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Old 08-09-2004, 03:43 PM #112
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I agree, theres no such thing as "absolute moral truths." Culture is very relative.

Please point out where i'm wrong here. =p
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Old 08-09-2004, 03:48 PM #113
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Quote:
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Not quite.. hence why I added the "and have no morals."

But overall, yes, I'd tend to agree with the above hypothesis.. They may have morals, but they'd probably be to a lower standard than a good Christian..
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Old 08-09-2004, 04:10 PM #114
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Obviously if a good christian has better morals than an athiest, is there a point of having too many morals?
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Old 08-09-2004, 08:07 PM #115
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Quote:
Originally posted by kameleon
And the only reason you believe in this the way that you do is because of your culture and how you were raised. "Absolute Moral Truths" are just another a example of "cultural relativsm."
Please go read the book before you continue making an *** out of yourself.
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Old 08-09-2004, 08:12 PM #116
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Quote:
Originally posted by JackSwitchBlade
I agree, theres no such thing as "absolute moral truths." Culture is very relative.

Please point out where i'm wrong here. =p
No. Do your research, Im not going to spoon feed it to you. Look up the book I mentioned previously, it is not a topic that can just be summarized in a few sentences on a message board.
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Old 08-09-2004, 09:09 PM #117
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Whether i read that book or not i will still feel the same way about morals. Just because you and the author of that book feel that way about morals doesnt mean i have too, or that reading the book will somehow change my opinion. Its like you telling me to read the bible because i dont believe in god. It still wont change the fact that i dont believe in god, just like reading some philosophers opinion on morals wont change the fact that i believe that all morals are relative.
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Old 08-09-2004, 09:18 PM #118
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Quote:
Originally posted by kameleon
Whether i read that book or not i will still feel the same way about morals. Just because you and the author of that book feel that way about morals doesnt mean i have too, or that reading the book will somehow change my opinion. Its like you telling me to read the bible because i dont believe in god. It still wont change the fact that i dont believe in god, just like reading some philosophers opinion on morals wont change the fact that i believe that all morals are relative.
Those two aren't analogous at all. I didn't tell you to go read a book by Limbaugh, or Moore, or McCain or Stossel. This isn't a "well I think..." sort of book. James Rachels isn't just stating his opinion, he is stating the opinion of about 99% of the Philosophical community. It is a brief text book on Moral Philosophy not some author coming up with a new idea. Saying you'll feel the same way about Cultural Relativism and morality after reading the book is the same as some guy saying he doesn't believe Demand is higher when Supply is lower after reading an intro to economics book. And how can you even say you will feel the same way without reading the book? That is just closed mindedness right there. Read the book, you'll be surprised.
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Old 08-09-2004, 09:28 PM #119
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So what are some of thees "absolute moral truths'?
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Old 08-10-2004, 12:03 AM #120
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vladmir
No. Do your research, Im not going to spoon feed it to you. Look up the book I mentioned previously, it is not a topic that can just be summarized in a few sentences on a message board.
...but just to humor you.
- Unjustified Racism is immoral
- Incest is immoral
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Last edited by Vladmir : 08-10-2004 at 12:05 AM.
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Old 08-10-2004, 01:35 AM #121
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So what would make racism justified? How can something so absolute be so open to interpretation? And incest, that one is ridiculous.
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Old 08-10-2004, 09:40 AM #122
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kameleon, Im done with you. You are asking me to spoon feed you something that cant be spoon fed. Im beginning to believe you are just here to either A. be argumentative or B. to hear yourself talk.

Do you honestly think you are smarter, more rational and more thoughtful than hundreds and hundreds of years of Philosophers? Be reasonable. They use layers upon layers of reasoning to conclude these things, I am not going to go to my text books and start quoting whole chapters to you. If you actually want to learn, go read the book, if you want to just sit and argue on the internet and not learn ****, then go right ahead.

The thought that you actually think you are refuting this theory with two sentences is laughable. People have tried to do the same with entire books with little more success.
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Old 08-10-2004, 12:23 PM #123
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I guess I will have to check the book out. I can't understand how their can be absolute moral truths. Incest is immoral to who? Justified racism is moral? Racism is moral? Whatever, don't respond to this, I'll just pick up the book somewhere.
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Old 08-10-2004, 01:31 PM #124
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Quote:
Originally posted by SlingerXL
Obviously if a good christian has better morals than an athiest, is there a point of having too many morals?
A good Christian is more likely to be emotionally bound to his morality.

So, essentially, yes... But, of course, you aren't going to agree with me.
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Old 08-10-2004, 01:37 PM #125
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vladmir



The thought that you actually think you are refuting this theory with two sentences is laughable. People have tried to do the same with entire books with little more success.
And thats all it is, a theory.

Edit- Im just going to leave it as you believe in Absolute moral truths and that i believe in Moral Relativism. Us arguing about will not change either of our opinions so lets just leave it at that.

Edit x2- Just for the record do you believe in God or a god?

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Old 08-10-2004, 01:43 PM #126
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Quote:
Originally posted by P8le Dricmade
A good Christian is more likely to be emotionally bound to his morality.

So, essentially, yes... But, of course, you aren't going to agree with me.
Of course.
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