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Old 08-19-2004, 01:05 AM #64
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I disagree with Chris mainly on the point that the government's main duty is to provide for the good of all people. I think that the government's role is to provide a secure environment and then up to people to capitalize on it. If you take that it is their job to provide for everyone then socialism is implied. I just like to operate on the tenet of personal responsibility instead of cradle to grave support for free-riders.
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Old 08-19-2004, 01:08 AM #65
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good point man...i was actually expecting a less informed hate post rather then a good rebuttle.

thanx,
chris
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Old 08-19-2004, 01:10 AM #66
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The problem with socialism is it caters to the lazy. The problem with straight capitolism is it is easy to take advantage of the poor. There's a happy medium somewhere.
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Old 08-19-2004, 01:13 AM #67
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socialism as a theory does indeed cater to teh lazy but in practice it is much less straight forward and very raely even in socialist nations now and then socialism almost nevr existed in all aspects. but when it does exist in all aspects it does indeed cater to those who do not want to work.
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Old 08-19-2004, 01:13 AM #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by SlingerXL
The problem with socialism is it caters to the lazy. The problem with straight capitolism is it is easy to take advantage of the poor. There's a happy medium somewhere.

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Old 08-19-2004, 04:36 AM #69
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Communisim CAN work.. in a small community
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Old 08-19-2004, 08:14 AM #70
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Communisim CAN work.. in a small community
Like, a "village"?
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Old 08-19-2004, 09:51 AM #71
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Like the Smurf Village
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Old 08-19-2004, 11:20 AM #72
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Walden II by B.F. Skinner

(tell me I have the title and author correct... Has an.... interesting statement on how such a community would work)
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Old 08-19-2004, 12:33 PM #73
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Quote:
Originally posted by kevin349
Communisim CAN work.. in a small community
true. There are nude colonies all over the world that flourish under socialism.
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Old 08-19-2004, 12:35 PM #74
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true. There are nude colonies all over the world that flourish under socialism.
Communism isn't Socialism ... you DO know that, right?
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Old 08-19-2004, 01:57 PM #75
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Quote:
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true. There are nude colonies all over the world that flourish under socialism.
There are also many nations that flourish under a socialist type government.
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Old 08-19-2004, 05:53 PM #76
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There are also many nations that flourish under a socialist type government.
Errr... flourish? Let's leave it at 'operate well'.
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Old 08-19-2004, 06:00 PM #77
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I suppose that would really depend on your deffinition of flourish... Because a lot of well to do Euopean countries have very socialist governments...
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Old 08-19-2004, 09:07 PM #78
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Quote:
Originally posted by wanky
Not to ruin any of your fun. But as a socialist i thought i woudl drop my 2 cents into the hat. Communism doesnt work at all becase it requires complete abolition of goverment in a sense creating a organized anarhcy where technically all things will govern themselves through economic need. In a quik word it will never work i say never cuz it has nevr been tried dont get communism confused with socialism.

captailism doesnt work we are now learning this whetehr u want to admit it or not the role of goverment is to provide good for all people and that simply cannot happen as long as captailism exists. i.e. teh healthcare industry we have learned that greedy people cannot control teh welfare of human being becuz they will just use there powers ot exploit thier customers for more money. the evr growing deficiet and growing number of white-collar criminals is a sign that greedy men will do all they can to get richer very few rich men in this world are not greedy. but the point is that all captailist nations are actually introducing socialist practices i.e. national healthcare. recently russia just took back control of the largest oil company in russia because that was in the best intrest of teh citizens of teh country. frane gret britain and germany have had socialist practices concerning healthcare and labor for a very long time but because they have not out and out called it socialism they have gone under the screen. evryone knows of canada's socialist healthcare and its sucess but at teh same time a few failures have been found but no where near teh problem of privitzed heathcare in teh us.

cuba has fanatastic healthcare and education soem of teh problem is emabrgo some of it is teh fact that castro keeps sending it to otehr "revolutionary forces" the food that is. castro isnt a fantasic guy buy u cant be all that fantastic if you are going to make teh system work.

in conclusion if u look at teh hard facts and what a socialist nation can do when they can have open trade on an international scale i imagine it will be sucessful becuz whther u like it or not countries are still goign to adopt socialist practices because of the fact that it fulfills there roll to serve teh good of ALL PEOPLE.

also all people shoudl read das kapital by marx just to have a better understanding of a the captailist system and how it worx.

i know i wondered but hey thas my 2 cents,

chris
o my god, get a ****ing clue man! capitalism doesnt work?! take a look out side: your living in the one of the greatest nations in the world, technolgically and quality of living. you can thank industrialized democracy and capitalism for that. explain how capitalism doesnt work? ill admit that its almost horribly ineffiecent, but look at the last, o, 4 decades of the soviet union. their economy and production in general had gone practically to ****. capitalism promotes competativeness among corporations, this is why most of the huge technological break thrus have been thru the private sector, and this is (one of the reasons) why the govt shells out huge amounts of $$ to the private sector.

france and great brittains national healthcare is hardly worth claiming as a socialist victory. germany has excellent health care, but i wouldnt claim that it is a "socialist" system. germany has one of the highest tax rates of industrialized democracies, but that is why they have national health care and free university educations.

countries are not gonna adopt to socialist ideals because it simply doesnt work. if it is such a good idea, why does the un label 2nd world countries as "post-communist"? because they are recovering from the ****hole of a country they were before.

if cuba has such a "great" education system, go down there and learn some f'ing english. hop off your bandwagon, get the facts, and shut the **** up.
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Old 08-19-2004, 09:22 PM #79
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and dont forget that the one thing that america truly excels in and has not exported is a monopoly on university and particularly graduate education. if you can afford it, you come to school in america bar none.
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Old 08-19-2004, 10:21 PM #80
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Oxford certainly ain't too shabby.
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Old 08-19-2004, 10:31 PM #81
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Quote:
Originally posted by captsarcastic69
and dont forget that the one thing that america truly excels in and has not exported is a monopoly on university and particularly graduate education. if you can afford it, you come to school in america bar none.
America has a "monopoly" on good education? Boy is that far fetched! I can't recall any developing countries complaining that America has amazing universities. I also can't recall how that is a monopoly in any way, seeing as the United States is not a business.

Be PROUD that the United States has the best university system, because as far as I know we pay the most! Monopoly, hardly. Opportunity, you bet.

I'm not going to mention the outstanding universities abroad, because that is not the basis for this argument. The United States has the most nuclear capabilities in the world. Does that mean we have a monopoly over warfare? Should we give some of our WMD's to countries that don't have them? Say, Iraq?
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Old 08-19-2004, 10:47 PM #82
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No but comparatively speaking, America has the worlds superlative graduate educational system. Talk to anyone who works for a university or is a graduate student themselves (particularly foreign) and I think they will most likely agree. Dont give grief about a few shining examples--that isnt the point. You dont see a mass Chinese/SE Asian/other developing economy migration to "average" schools in any country other than the US. BTW, the whole monopoly over warfare bit was a non sequiter to me.
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Old 08-19-2004, 10:48 PM #83
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We do certainly lag in elementary and secondary education though but dont get me started on that one...
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Old 08-19-2004, 11:03 PM #84
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Quote:
Originally posted by captsarcastic69
No but comparatively speaking, America has the worlds superlative graduate educational system. Talk to anyone who works for a university or is a graduate student themselves (particularly foreign) and I think they will most likely agree. Dont give grief about a few shining examples--that isnt the point.
Man, what are you getting at? Of course we are basically the most advanced. I am failing to see a valid point! Yes, I know a few shining examples aren't the point, ::cough::, hence why I didn't emphasize it at all.

I'm asking you to please explain what you want the United States to do about other nations not developing as well as we are? I'm curious. Did you want us to just SEND our professors elsewhere? Fund foreign education? Build universities elsewhere? What!?

Edit: Lack/"lag" in secondary and elementary education?

I've been reading through this for a while and I can't say I believe that we have a secondary education "problem" here. One downfall is that at the state-level, a lot of government education funding is not given to the schools.
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