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View Poll Results: Who's worse
Michael Moore 40 70.18%
Rush Limbaugh 9 15.79%
Bill O'Rielly 8 14.04%
Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll

 
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Old 08-06-2004, 11:27 AM #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by BCpro05
just for arguements sake, how would you react if it were found out that most of the WMD's were filtered to both Syria and Iran before we began hostilities? I to am disturbed about the WMD thing, but it seems totally plausable that they could have been transferred prior to OIF, not that Saddam didn't have enough time.....afterall he managed to bury his airforce or the majority anyways...20-30 ft under the desert so we couldn't target them! Just curious as to how you and others would react if the whole "WMD" factor were removed?
Don't know until it happens.
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Old 08-06-2004, 11:44 PM #23
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Rush Limbaugh is by far my favorite out of the list. O'Reilly is too serious, and Moore is just a fatass sell out looking to make a buck off of being controversial.
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Old 08-07-2004, 12:52 AM #24
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moores movie was a complete communist act to me, bashing the president is not very smart if your not running for chief in command
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Old 08-07-2004, 12:53 AM #25
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Yes, very communist.
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Old 08-07-2004, 12:59 AM #26
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it has been proven by the 9-11 comission that moore lied in his film, on several occasions. he lied in saying bush lied, which he did not. He was given bad intelligence from the CIA, England, and Russia, and acted on it. Telling me that he should have ignored the intelligence services from 3 nations telling him the same thing that saddam had WMD and was getting nukes is pure ignorance. Hind sight is 20/20, but anyone who had the safe keeping of this nation as their #1 priority would have acted in the manner that bush did. Ok, so now you say he should have gone to the UN. But lets look a the UN and their record of inaction. The first bomb to detonate outside of the UN HQ in iraw caused an immediate withdrawl of all UN forces from the country...pretty strong rection from a coalition of numerous nation, running like a scared rabbit. And the inaction of the UN to prevent the Genocide in african nations such as Rwanda and Sudan...even today, genocide and war is going on in Africa, and all teh UN is doing is deliberating about possibly imposing sanctions. Maybe by late 2007 they'll finish deliberating. I personally applaud our president for not allowing out defense to be given to the UN...which instead of United Nations, should be given the more accurate name of United Nothing
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Old 08-07-2004, 08:37 AM #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by SlingerXL
So we should ban all powerful political movies/shows/commercials?
No, just the insanely edited, misleading, lying movies that are labeled "documentaries."
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Old 08-07-2004, 09:18 AM #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mag Master 21
No, just the insanely edited, misleading, lying movies that are labeled "documentaries."
I was with you up until the, "documentaries".

Documentary: Factual footage arranged in such a way that it informs and expresses a point of view.
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Old 08-07-2004, 09:26 AM #29
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Different people have different definitions..

Although the word "factual" pops up at me..
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Old 08-07-2004, 09:45 AM #30
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doc·u·men·ta·ry ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dky-mnt-r)
adj.
Consisting of, concerning, or based on documents.
Presenting facts objectively without editorializing or inserting fictional matter, as in a book or film.

Here's the thing sliger.....moore's film by definition is not a documentarym because he certainly editorializes and inserts ictional matter into his film, and he is not in any way objective.
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Old 08-07-2004, 03:20 PM #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by PB-OUTKAST
moores movie was a complete communist act to me, bashing the president is not very smart if your not running for chief in command
how was it a communist act? You just made yourself look very stupid. Obviously you didn't know that communism is a political structure.
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Old 08-07-2004, 03:22 PM #32
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Oh, and btw, Rush is by far the worst out of the list, Mike is pretty cool and compashonate, and he goes out and attacks with facts.
Here is a nice little sum up of Rushy:
http://www.bushflash.com/nazi.html
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Old 08-07-2004, 05:15 PM #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mag Master 21
Different people have different definitions..

Although the word "factual" pops up at me..
There isn't a single fact in his movie that's outright wrong. You should've known that.
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Old 08-07-2004, 05:16 PM #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Clecko54
doc·u·men·ta·ry ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dky-mnt-r)
adj.
Consisting of, concerning, or based on documents.
Presenting facts objectively without editorializing or inserting fictional matter, as in a book or film.

Here's the thing sliger.....moore's film by definition is not a documentarym because he certainly editorializes and inserts ictional matter into his film, and he is not in any way objective.
Did you not read the definition I found on what a documentary is? It says it expresses a point of view which is exactly what Moore's film does.
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Old 08-07-2004, 05:17 PM #35
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Facts shouldnt be able to be disputed... Obviously the substance of Moore's film is not factual and quite a bit of it is outright wrong.
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Old 08-07-2004, 05:45 PM #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by oddpb111
Facts shouldnt be able to be disputed... Obviously the substance of Moore's film is not factual and quite a bit of it is outright wrong.
Now comes the obvious question. Can you name some unfactual and wrong statements?

It's not the FACTS that are being disputed here. Only morons can still say there are factual errors in his movie. It's the interpretation of what the facts mean that's being debated.
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Old 08-07-2004, 07:58 PM #37
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Rush. O'Reilly and Moore both piss me off, but not to the same degree.
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Old 08-07-2004, 08:21 PM #38
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how can Rush piss you off more than Moore?

Rush can be a little extreme but at least he doesnt fly to other countries and bad mouth americans and talk about how he needs to be with canadians to regain his sanity cuz americans are so "stupid." i cant believe people like john kerry actually went to see his movie when he says stuff like that.

yes i did get that quote from a flash movie but i dont see how one can be quoted out of context unless someone said "mr. moore, could u please say just for the hell of it that you need to see ur movie with canadians cuz americans are too stupid? thanks"
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Old 08-07-2004, 08:45 PM #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by SlingerXL
There isn't a single fact in his movie that's outright wrong. You should've known that.
Actually that isn't true.

http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fift...enheit-911.htm

while it is a conservative biased article, it tears the movie apart very convincingly.

There is plenty of false information in the movie.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/

A less intense article.
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Old 08-07-2004, 08:54 PM #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by SlingerXL
Now comes the obvious question. Can you name some unfactual and wrong statements?

It's not the FACTS that are being disputed here. Only morons can still say there are factual errors in his movie. It's the interpretation of what the facts mean that's being debated.
And for those who dont want to read the articles here are a list of some of the major problems.

"Newsmax reports:

A central theme of Michael Moore’s controversial documentary “Fahrenheit 9/11” is a bare allegation that Saudi Arabian interests provided $1.4 billion to firms connected to the family and friends of President George W. Bush.

However, as a special Newsweek investigative report notes, there is really less – not more – than meets the eye re the dramatic Moore claim:

Nearly 90 percent of that claimed amount, $1.18 billion, comes from contracts in the early to mid-1990’s that the Saudi Arabian government awarded to a U.S. defense contractor, BDM, for training the country’s military and National Guard. The “Bush” connection: The firm at the time was owned by the Carlyle Group, a private-equity firm whose Asian-affiliate advisory board once included the president’s father, George H.W. Bush.

But, points out Newsweek, former president Bush didn’t join the Carlyle advisory board until April, 1998 -- five months after Carlyle had already sold BDM to another defense firm.

As for the sitting president’s own Carlyle link, his service on the board ended when he quit to run for Texas governor -- a few months before the first of the Saudi contracts to the unrelated BDM firm was awarded.

The Carlyle Group is hardly a “Bush Inc,” noted Newsweek – but rather features a roster of bipartisan Washington power figures. “Its founding and still managing partner is Howard Rubenstein, a former top domestic policy advisor to Jimmy Carter. Among the firm’s senior advisors is Thomas “Mack” McLarty, Bill Clinton’s former White House chief of staff, and Arthur Levitt, Clinton’s former chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission. One of its other managing partners is William Cannard, Clinton’s chairman of the Federal Communications Commission.”

According to the report, the movie neglects to offer any evidence that Bush White House intervened in any way to bolster the interests of the Carlyle Group. In fact, the one major Bush administration decision that most directly affected the company’s interest was the cancellation of a $11 billion program for the Crusader rocket artillery system. The Crusader was manufactured by United Defense, which had been wholly owned by Carlyle until it spun the company off in a public offering in October, 2001. Carlyle still owned 47 percent of the shares in the defense company at the time that Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld canceled the Crusader program the following year.

As to Moore’s dealings with the matter of the departing Saudis flown out of the United States in the days after the September 11 terror attacks, the 9/11 commission found that the FBI screened the Saudi passengers, ran their names through federal databases, interviewed 30 of them and asked many of them "detailed questions." "Nobody of interest to the FBI with regard to the 9/11 investigation was allowed to leave the country," the commission stated.

The entity in the White House that approved the flights wasn’t the president, or the vice president -- it was Richard Clarke, the counter-terrorism czar who was a holdover from the Clinton administration. Clarke has testified that he gave the approval conditioned on FBI clearance. "
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Old 08-07-2004, 10:28 PM #41
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Funny, sounds like interrpretation of the facts instead of lies again.
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Old 08-07-2004, 10:31 PM #42
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Speaking of propaganda has anyone seen those bush comericials?
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