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Old 08-05-2004, 12:15 PM #148
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Quote:
Originally posted by CrazySandman
Bayhouse,
I guess I don't understand. I wasn't talking about DQing the team. I am just saying a gun that bounces mechanically will not be allowed to be used.
After we discovered it was mechanically bouncing of course it was not allowed to be used. Dave took the 2k2 off our field and he hooked it up to the robot. He determined that it was mechanical bounce and not board bounce, so according to the rules there was no penalty that could be assesed.

As I said before, in Denver excessive mechanical bounce wasn't something you could be penalized for if you were caught on the field. As for the future events I have no idea how they will handle excessive bounce because only Dave knows at this point.

Last edited by Bayhouse : 08-06-2004 at 12:31 AM.
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Old 08-05-2004, 04:16 PM #149
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yeah they were somehow catching mbounce.

it was wierd, they were catching slow guns but not the fast ones.
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Old 08-05-2004, 07:28 PM #150
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I say we signed a waiver and we all know what paintball is about. Lets the markers fly as fast as they want. The game is getting faster, the players are faster, the skills are better, so why are we worried about the markers.

Insurance

Enough said
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Old 08-05-2004, 09:46 PM #151
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It's about responsibility.

Players need to start accepting some responsibility for your equpment. Do way too many players currently pay close to zero attention to whether or not their equipment is legal? Probably. Does that make it ok? Is that the way it should be? No.

If your gun bounces, it isn't accidental - it's because you failed to live up to your responsibility to make sure your equipment functions properly. If you don't take care of your equipment and it malfunctions during a game and stops shooting, that's the players fault, right? If it malfunctions and starts bouncing during a game, it's not suddenly an "accident' just because the malfunction is "desirable".

If the gun malfunctions and stops shooting, you lose. If it "malfunctions" and starts mowing people, you lose. Same difference - make sure your equipment is going to work properly.


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Old 08-05-2004, 10:09 PM #152
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Re: It's about responsibility.

Quote:
Originally posted by raehl
Players need to start accepting some responsibility for your equpment. Do way too many players currently pay close to zero attention to whether or not their equipment is legal? Probably. Does that make it ok? Is that the way it should be? No.

If your gun bounces, it isn't accidental - it's because you failed to live up to your responsibility to make sure your equipment functions properly. If you don't take care of your equipment and it malfunctions during a game and stops shooting, that's the players fault, right? If it malfunctions and starts bouncing during a game, it's not suddenly an "accident' just because the malfunction is "desirable".

If the gun malfunctions and stops shooting, you lose. If it "malfunctions" and starts mowing people, you lose. Same difference - make sure your equipment is going to work properly.


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So we should all turn our debounce as high as it will go just to make sure our gun never bounces?
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Old 08-06-2004, 12:30 AM #153
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Chris...
Please enlighten me on how we can figure out how are guns are bouncing in 3 extra balls without the use of that sorry excuse for a robot. But ofcourse the robots are not accessible before games. I maintain my gun lots and I do a damn good job of it Id say, especially on the Speed I formerly had. However, when I started shooting fast, sometimes a few extra balls will come out, especially on my timmy. My speed very rarely, but my timmy will on occassion bounce. The bounce is never dangerous and nor will it cause harm to anyone who can suck up 3 extra balls. If you are a ***** cry baby, then I guess you could say my gun is a danger to you, in which case...get out of here, get someone to punch you in the face till you get tougher. Maintaining your gun doesnt have much to do with bounce, Ive seen guns that bounce literally out of the box.
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Old 08-06-2004, 03:51 AM #154
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Re: Re: It's about responsibility.

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Originally posted by <("<)
So we should all turn our debounce as high as it will go just to make sure our gun never bounces?
If you want to be 100% positive you won't get DQ'd, yes.

- Chris
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Old 08-06-2004, 03:56 AM #155
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Some guns can still bounce with a debounce all the way down though.
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Old 08-06-2004, 04:10 AM #156
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Quote:
Originally posted by veggie_8
Chris...
Please enlighten me on how we can figure out how are guns are bouncing in 3 extra balls
You're not. You're supposed to figure out that your gun isn't bouncing any extra balls at all.

If you can't set up your gun so that you *KNOW* it is not bouncing, you are dealing with a crappy piece of equipment, or you need to hire a gun tech. It's very easy to do.

Now, chances are, if you set it up so you're SURE it's not going to bounce, it's probably not shooting as fast as you'd like. And if you decide that because it's not shooting as fast as you'd like, you're going to set it up so that you're pretty sure it doesn't bounce, but shoots faster, and you then get busted because it was bouncing, that is your fault. Yeah, that means that some markers that people rushed to buy before because they "shot fast" won't be so popular anymore. And that's exactly the point.

Enforcement of one pull, one shot is improving. Players who adjust and make sure their equipment is legal will shoot a little slower and not get DQ'd, or they'll invest in newer, better equipment that can shoot fast *AND* not bounce instead of continuing to use equipment that shoots fast and bounces. Players who continue to use equipment that bounces, or that they can't be sure isn't bouncing, will get DQ'd. You pick which one you want to be, but if you carry a marker on the field without making sure it's not bouncing (turn up your debounce, lengthen your pull, put in a stronger trigger spring, make sure your board software is legal, whatever you ahve to do to make sure it doesn't bounce), YOU chose to do it, not NPPL, not anyone else, but YOU.

I get the feeling I'm arguing with the same kind of people that say "I might not have known there was a big hit on my tank, so I shouldn't have gotten a penalty, even though everyone within 30 feet of me heard the hit."



- Chris

Last edited by raehl : 08-06-2004 at 04:42 AM.
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Old 08-13-2004, 06:29 PM #157
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Originally posted by veggie_8
Wow, thanks for making me stupider.
I have a question for you.
You go all the way from Canada to Denver to play a much anticipated NPPL event. Unfortunately you do not get your new gun till the night before, not your fault, but this is still the scenario. You go to play this event the next day only to find some dipsh*t of a ref DQs you for a few extra bps. A few extra bps that would hurt noone, nor make any difference. Suppose he shooting with only his middle finger and changed 8 bps into 10, would it have made a difference? You pay all this money to go play the big and amazing NPPL, and now you are DQd because your gun gave a few extra bps. A kick in the nuts aint it? Now, whos fault is this? Not yours, you just got your gun the night before. Infact, it is the fault of the series and people who think like you do. People who think "rules are rules, bounce is bounce", Ill give you a stupid saying for you to put in your sig "pussies are pussies". Suck it up, you get hit with 3 extra balls, you want a band aid for it? As much as rules are rules, the rules blow, change them. Players have no accessibility to the machine that can DQ them? DQing is a serious process, you want to be set back a couple of thousand dollers over 3 balls? Good, neither do I. A serious process should be treated more seriously. Why is it that players are free to walk around and look at vending booths, but are not forced to test their guns well in advance for games? Suppose the velocity of a gun couldnt be adgusted, you going to now make every player guess their velocity and if it is above 300 fps when they are tested, you pull them? Hmm, sounds the same scenario as the boucne thing. And its not even Chop Shops fault, as a matter of fact their guns were out of box. So dont go around blaming people for making their guns ramp, these guns were first shot on the field of play. You are also the owner of a dm4, dont bullsh*t me about bounce. Now supposing the guns were made to ramp (even though they were not, but this is a what if situation), you got hit by 3 extra balls, and now the team who shot you is set back all that money for nothing. Why dont you chop of your dick while you're at it, jackass. I could not believe it when I heard that 665 was DQd over such a small ramp, especially with the pros going around blasting peoples masks off with the bounce their guns have. Dont bullsh*t me, or yourself about pros having bounce, Rich Telford will even admit to it in Facefull. As a matter of fact, pros dont just have an extra few bps bounce cause by god knows what variable, they have cheater boards. Yes, cheater boards. Purposely put in for the sole purpose of cheating. How many pros were DQd? None. Buuuut, rules are rules, am I not right? I mean, the rules clearly state....shut up, anyone who says this should be smacked upside the head. Especially in a situation where pros and not div 2 teams who pay out of their own pockets can be allowed to cheat. Enforce it or dont. If you are going to enforce it, you have to: enforce it on everyone, and do less of a half assed job. If you let people access it before, its a win win situation. More teams are happy with your league cause they can set up their guns without bounce -> YAY, noone gets DQd. And there is no illegal "bounce" (I use this word loosely with an extra 3 bps coming out of the barrel).
On top of all that, Chop Shop had 1 illegal gun. Just 1. not 7, 1. 1 gun that shot 3 extra balls. 3 extra balls from 1 gun out of 7. Call Ripley. DQing the entire team instead of taking the gun away (which even would have been dumb with an extra 3 balls coming out the barrel) is retarded. They took it to the extreme, it is completely ridiculous that an entir eteam should be DQd over such a small bounce from only 1 persons gun. And as the Chop Shop player above mentioned, it was clear that other peoples guns were bouncing, just the refs on the other fields were blind or less dumb (dumb referring too pulling someones gun for a very small amount of bounce).
Now another one of your points states you can "send the marker back to the manufacturer and make them fix it", yeah, after you are already DQd. What the hell is that about. You gonna send it back to WDP, then get it mailed back to where you are standing? Id be damned if that happened. But an unexpected extra 3 bps cant be noticed when you dont have a ROBOT. Supposing the guys gun bounced 3bps at practice, he isnt going to notice, noone will except for that sorry excuse for a robot (robots are supposed to be bad assed machines that pillage and kill mimes...I hate mimes). So in this situation, how would he know to send the gun to the manufacturer? The only place where someone can find out their gun bounces is with the robot which is only accessible during games if the ref pulls you for a bouncing gun. But ofcourse we applaud NPPL for enforcing rules right?
Anyone who goes into the NPPL and purposely illegally sets their gun to ramp like mad knowing about the stupid robots and anal refs, should not only be DQd, but punched in the face for being such an idiot. But the fact is, the teams that were DQd, did NOT do this. They were DQd unfairly. The NPPL may be trying to make their league fair, but this wasnt fair. This just took it too far. DQing someone over such a minor bounce...absurd. They are trying to make their circuit as fair as possible? Thats great, but it isnt working. Everything else about the NPPL is great, but this was just dumb. I loathe the day where being sent back to Canada a day early when you spent so much money to play the event in the first place, over 3 bps, is fair. You should be able to realise that too.
Damn, this post is long, Im going to go do something cool like watch Army of Darkness or Enter the Dragon. You pussies who ***** and whine about an extra 3 bps too, maybe Bruce Lee will come out of the screen and beat the ***** out of you...suck it up, the next thing you know you are going to become a member of PETA and eat soya burgers.


sorry to hear this , and i did'nt mean to piss in your wheaties,maybe you are right about it being to harsh, but that is the rules and i would say you were very unlucky with the purchase of a new marker with it bouncing or adding shots out of the box,

and to be honest i don't know the answer to this problem of not being able to check your marker before the tourney begins, other then the nppl makeing the robots available so the markers can be checked out and deemed legal and if it is'nt they give you a chance to make it legal,
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Old 08-13-2004, 06:38 PM #158
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i did'nt read all your post, i could give a **** whether i get shot more and who are you calling a *****?

that is awfully brave sitting behind your pc , i know what happened to you would piss me off also, but don't come in here acting like you done nothing wrong,

buying a marker not knowing anything about it and takeing it to a major tourney without checking it out and that is the nppl's fault? do i really need to say it oh ok i will that is stupidty so i did'nt make you stupider,
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Old 08-15-2004, 01:50 PM #159
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you're making fun of how "stupid" he is? but then you use the word stupider, hence voiding anything you just said.
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Old 08-15-2004, 04:16 PM #160
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not sure who you are talking too but it was a word used by veggie so i used it so he doesn't misunderstand what i was saying,

stupid is stupid does,
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Old 08-15-2004, 05:37 PM #161
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okay....
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Old 08-24-2004, 10:31 PM #162
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Hey, incase you haven't noticed, I used the word stupider purposely. The post I read by you made me more stupid, hence using the word stupider. It was a play on words
By the way, about buying the gun, is it not to much to expect that your sponsors dont give you illegal guns?
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Old 08-24-2004, 10:41 PM #163
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Chris...
its not about 1 player personally. Its about the league as a whole, get your whole team to step on the field with STO cockers, and see how you fair. Whether or not you yourself can kick *** with them is kind of irrelevant to the point Im getting at, the speed is needed to keep up with todays game. Noone is gonna shoot mech cockers anymore, its too far ahead and too late for that. However, I agree with you when you say its the player's responsibility. Its always has been and always will be the player's responsibility to maintain his equipment. However, Im sure most people can agree with me when I say ANYTHING can cause an extra 3 balls on any electro gun. In a stream of paint, an extra 3 balls coming out can be caused by a number of things that are not the player's fault, nor will they really effect anyone. Thats like at a field if the chrony limit is 250, and you shoot at 260, you get banned forever (and you shoot at 260 without being able to chrony in advance for the game, to make it more comparable to the NPPL's stance on bounce). Ive shot at 260 on 250 fields, and noone, I repeat, noone has been hurt. People have shot at 280 on 250 fields, Ive been shot by people shooting 280 on 250 fields...no problem. At every tournament I have ever played, debounce has never really been enforced unless the gun is bouncing out of hand, we have not had 1 injury. So as much as it is the player's responsibility, its alot to expect of the player. How can he make sure that his gun doesnt bounce 3 extra balls without having the equipment to do so, BEFORE THE GAME STARTS. If everyone had a robot, things would be different. But as of now they are not, and even with the robot, 3 extra balls? Give the guys a break.
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Old 08-25-2004, 01:15 PM #164
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We'll just have to agree to disagree. I know players keep saying that "lots of things can make extra balls come out that are not the players fault", but I think that's BS. If you're getting extra balls, it's because either your equipment is not set up properly, in which case you should set it up properly, or your equipment is shoddy, in which case you should buy better equipment.

The STO was an extreme-case example of trigger definitely set up to never bounce. You can set up an electronic marker to not bounce as well - will it shoot as fast as one that adds three balls to a stream? Of course not, because it isn't adding three extra balls. But whether the player sets up their gun to be legal, or to be illegally fast, is the players choice, and it's the PLAYER that is responsible if they choose illegally fast and get busted.

You can say that "any electronic marker can accidentally add shots no matter how you set it up" all you want, but that is just plain not true.

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Old 08-25-2004, 05:11 PM #165
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Ok, supposing you are right about the causes of bounce (which I disagree with, I have seen finely set up guns bounce, its not always electronic, it can be mechanical too). But how is a player supposed to know now? It seems this point is frequently avoided. At practice, if a players gun bounces 3 bps, how is he supposed to know that. Suppose his gun is illegal out of the box (like Chop Shop's), how will he know when he uses it taht it is giving him 3 extra balls in a stream of like 50. Again, the analogy with the velocity. Thats like trying to figure out your velocity without a chrony, then getting DQd when its over 280.
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