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Old 07-20-2004, 01:50 AM #85
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same exact thing happened to me episode666,small loader hit that i unknowingly had... 1 for 1
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Old 07-20-2004, 04:32 AM #86
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Quote:
Originally posted by chump
WTF Your going to sit here and tell us that this guy didn't know his gun? If I fill your hopper with paint and I let you rip a 20 sec string do you know how much paint you fired?
It's not like my marker would keep shooting after I stopped pulling the trigger..... it just fired more shots during the stream than were pulled. Sorry, but there's no way atleast for me, that I can detect a few extra balls coming out of my marker when I am completely ripping on my marker.
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Old 07-20-2004, 09:30 AM #87
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Quote:
Originally posted by episode666
I got yanked on a feed neck hit with no splatter on my goggles and the ref said it was an obvious hit and a "self check zone" hence, one for one. In the same game another guy got a front of the loader hit and got another one for one
LOL- but that's exactly what the current rules say- pretty much anything that's not a pack hit is considered obvious. Heck according to NPPL rules asking for a paintcheck with an obvious hit is considered playing on. The reffs enforced the rules as they are written in short they did their jobs.
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Old 07-20-2004, 09:33 AM #88
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Originally posted by zeerow
Ok, this is how I see it. If they are going to have a rule, they need to make it possible for all teams to be sure they are following said rule. I don't care if it's expensive and alot of work..if they're going to make it a rule, they can't halfass it.

You can't expect teams to stay within the rules on sheer guesstimation. They need to be able to test, otherwise they will never know for sure if they are entirely following the rules. It'd be pure luck of the draw.

That's like having a FPS rule with only one chrono at the entire event. People would just set up their guns to what they THINK is around the right FPS, and then go play. If a ref thought they were shooting hot, they'd be taken to the one chrono they have and tested.

Sure, that's a bit extreme, but it's basically the same thing. You can't make a rule and not have the means for players to make sure they are following said rule. It's a disservice to all the players, and I personally don't think it's right. It has nothing to do with whether or not a couple BPS over getting a DQ is a harsh judgement, it's just the fact that players have no way of knowing. That's just weak.


There's my .02
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Old 07-20-2004, 12:07 PM #89
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they were calling pack hits obvious too, saw it happen a few times. You can feel a pack hit a hell of a lot easier than a hit on the gun...I guess I'm not that in tune with my marker to feel when i get hit on the feed neck...I must be a retard or something.
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Old 07-20-2004, 12:22 PM #90
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Glad to see this thread didn't get off track at all. Illegal guns and pack hits are so similiar.
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Old 07-20-2004, 03:02 PM #91
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kinda on track of reffing/rules. quite similiar actually...
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Old 07-20-2004, 03:37 PM #92
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Quote:
Originally posted by episode666

I also saw in one of the prelim games they started to 10 second count on the Dogs/Bushwackers game and about 6 seconds into it the refs started screaming "stop stopstop!" and made everyone throw their guns down. I was like...here comes the robot, but they just chrono'd them again. anyone know what was up with that? it was the strangest thing I had ever seen...
Like I said before..I feel for ya guys...see you in Vega$
We did a few random gun checks on the field that day - that was one of them.

Both teams were checked and there were no problems - I have to say that the dogs were great about the whole thing - very good sportsmen.
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Old 07-20-2004, 03:39 PM #93
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Quote:
Originally posted by episode666
they were calling pack hits obvious too, saw it happen a few times. You can feel a pack hit a hell of a lot easier than a hit on the gun...I guess I'm not that in tune with my marker to feel when i get hit on the feed neck...I must be a retard or something.
LOL- no one said you were a retard. Thats just what NPPL rules state. If your going to play the game you should know the rules and the way the rules read what happened to you was the rules being correctly enforced. You don't have to like it or agree with it but the rules are what they are.
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Old 07-20-2004, 04:10 PM #94
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Quote:
Originally posted by episode666
I also saw in one of the prelim games they started to 10 second count on the Dogs/Bushwackers game and about 6 seconds into it the refs started screaming "stop stopstop!" and made everyone throw their guns down. I was like...here comes the robot, but they just chrono'd them again. anyone know what was up with that? it was the strangest thing I had ever seen...
Like I said before..I feel for ya guys...see you in Vega$
That's a tactic they have been using in the millennium series for the last 1.5 years. In both Portugal and Toulouse last year we were about to start games and then the judges yelled "Guns down". Each gun was rechronoed and checked for bounce. In our particular games with I think Power Trip and Cyclone no guns were found to be bounce or hot. However Strange and Russian Legion both lost at least 1 gun in their semis and finals games.
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Old 07-20-2004, 04:57 PM #95
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how does this robot thing work, does it just pull the trigger real slow? Or does it pull it numerouse times and only the number of times pulled the number of shots are allowed??

Either way it sounds like a joke.. Why should those 2 teams get DQ'd and Dynasty and Infamous be allowed to screw with there guns to get rid of bounce..
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Old 07-20-2004, 05:08 PM #96
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BTW.. If I ever go to an NPPL event, I will blow up the robot , don't tell anyone
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Old 07-20-2004, 05:13 PM #97
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Dynasty and Infamous was before a game, we were coming off the field, I can't speak for the Chop Shop guys but theres was the same type of situation i think. If the chrono ref gets it to bounce you can change it before you enter the field.

As far as the robot goes, they can program it to pull as fast or as slow as possible. They tell it how many pulls, in how many seconds. Then there is a chrono that counts the balls coming out.

Don't blame the robot.
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Old 07-20-2004, 05:34 PM #98
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if you don't want to pay the price of being disqualified then make sure your team and yourself show up with a marker that doesn't violate the rules , after all you are responsible to make sure the marker is'nt illegal,

now i'm not saying that some people purposely set them up to bounce or ramp, but if you are gonna fiddle around with your marker to get all you can get out of it can be considered a illegal marker and dq you and your team,

is it worth putting your team in jeopardy for a few bps more? looks like to me the nppl is sticking to enforcing these rules and i applaud them for it, they are trying to make this circuit as fair as they can is there something wrong with that?

it is'nt like the rules haven't been made known, and most of these issues is the result of the owner of the marker and if it is'nt then send it back to whoever you bought it from and make them fix it,

most guns come plenty fast but we are always trying to go faster by adding different boards modifying switches and triggers and then you want to blame the nppl because it won't pass,


let me let you in on a secret if you can only pull the trigger 12 times a second, if you make some changes to it and now you are shooting 20 bps your gun is illegal it is ramping or bouncing is that really that hard to figure out?

now i know we all can shoot 20 bps so i am gonna make sure i am no matter whether it is illegal or not, that is why so many are sent packing now are we all on the same page now?
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Old 07-20-2004, 06:17 PM #99
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Quote:
Originally posted by pballer4life62
if you don't want to pay the price of being disqualified then make sure your team and yourself show up with a marker that doesn't violate the rules , after all you are responsible to make sure the marker is'nt illegal,

now i'm not saying that some people purposely set them up to bounce or ramp, but if you are gonna fiddle around with your marker to get all you can get out of it can be considered a illegal marker and dq you and your team,

is it worth putting your team in jeopardy for a few bps more? looks like to me the nppl is sticking to enforcing these rules and i applaud them for it, they are trying to make this circuit as fair as they can is there something wrong with that?

it is'nt like the rules haven't been made known, and most of these issues is the result of the owner of the marker and if it is'nt then send it back to whoever you bought it from and make them fix it,

most guns come plenty fast but we are always trying to go faster by adding different boards modifying switches and triggers and then you want to blame the nppl because it won't pass,


let me let you in on a secret if you can only pull the trigger 12 times a second, if you make some changes to it and now you are shooting 20 bps your gun is illegal it is ramping or bouncing is that really that hard to figure out?

now i know we all can shoot 20 bps so i am gonna make sure i am no matter whether it is illegal or not, that is why so many are sent packing now are we all on the same page now?
wow.. Maybe your not hearing the point people in this thread are trying to make..

You can't make sure your team shows up with a marker that wont bounce if you dont have a damn robot? Is that so hard to understand? Alot of people can't get there guns to bounce with there own fingers, so how can they tell if it will bounce on the robot..

The NPPL is a joke right now, the robots a joke.. For god sakes.. ITS A FREAKING ROBOT.. If a ref can't get a gun to bounce then it should be legal.. They shouldn't be taking it to some robot for testing.

And I know for a fact that I could do about 14-16 on a Dye Matrix with a nice adjusted trigger.. Out of the box I bet i'd have a tough time pulling ten.. Triggers DON'T come adjusted good at all.. Seriouslly have you ever felt the trigger on a Dye Matrix out of the box? It's just as long as a mech. So you can't be telling people not to adjust there triggers.. And just because there faster on them once there adjusted doesn't mean there bouncing.. You ever think it might just be a better trigger setup thats easier to rip on?
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Old 07-20-2004, 07:03 PM #100
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read my thread yeah i know what it feels like but did you read where the guy put in another chip?

if the robot is picking up extra shots then where are the extra shots comeing from, and i bet most every gun that has been pulled have been messed with by the owner,

and there are far more players being able to play and their markers are legal according to the refs and robot, but a few aren't so the robot is'nt doing the job ok,

and if you are gonna set it up on the edge then pay the price when the robot catches it, pretty simple leave it alone,
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Old 07-21-2004, 11:29 AM #101
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Well in our case we were assured by the board manufacture that it was tested and approved by the NPPL. The trigger job is nothing out of the ordinary. The ref couldn't make it bounce, the guys at the robot couldn't get it to bounce, but the robot did. If it is a fast gun, you can not tell the difference of a couple extra balls. We are not blaming the NPPL at all, so I do not understand your comment about them enforcing the rules. We knew the rule, we broke the rule, we paid the price.

Our thing was to let the god like perfect people like yourself know that just because you are the most outstanding, perfect player in the world, your gun might not pass the robot test. You can believe what you want, but we had no idea that the gun was illegal. We accept that it was, we accept that we were DQ'd, we acknowledge the rule, we acknowledge we knew the rule, we acknowledge we knew we would get DQ'd.
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Old 07-21-2004, 11:49 AM #102
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Quote:
Originally posted by chopper
We knew the rule, we broke the rule, we paid the price.
I have to disagree with the above statement- while you knew the rule and you paid the price, YOU did not break the rule. The robot was apparently the only one who could, in this case.
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Old 07-21-2004, 11:54 AM #103
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Hey we knew of the robot, we as in everyone else did not have access to the robot, it happened to redz, it happened to the chop shop guys, we are no different. The gun shot extra balls weather it was the robot that got it to do it or not. It sucks without a doubt, but we saw it with our eyes and agree it did to it.
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Old 07-22-2004, 12:42 AM #104
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its sad that 665 got dq'ed cuz one guy had a todao board in there and Cartel is proudly sponsored by those guys. http://www.cartelkidz.com/sponsors.html
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Old 07-22-2004, 04:17 AM #105
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Chopper, in an email I received from Dave Zinkham, the NPPL scrutineer, he states that when he fired the gun over the chonograph (not using the robot) it would keep firing additional shots after he let go of the trigger.

This is a telltale sign that the debounce was too low or the trigger was set up to help the gun bounce more.

I also never "promised" that the 4.0 board was NPPL legal. It had never been tested before on the robot, but based on the fact that the 4.0 has been available since February and been used by many teams during the previous NPPL events, it was assumed that they would be fine.

The only software that I've made that has been run on the robot before the Denver NPPL is my latest DM4 code.
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