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Old 07-17-2004, 12:54 PM #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by <("<)
The problem is that the NPPL robot, not to mention the NPPL, makes no discrimination between bouncing intentionally and on accident. How many people do you know that actually walk into an NPPL event with their guns set up to bounce on purpose? My guess would be zero, as I know no one who does.
I know quite a few, QUITE a few, who do.
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Old 07-17-2004, 12:56 PM #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Prairie
I know quite a few, QUITE a few, who do.
Names please
Theyre retarded.
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Old 07-17-2004, 12:59 PM #24
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No, they want to win.
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Old 07-17-2004, 01:11 PM #25
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I would like to know how much bounce got them DQ'ed. If one of their guns double shot while slow pulling and they got DQ'ed thats garbage.

Last edited by 845 : 07-17-2004 at 01:15 PM.
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Old 07-17-2004, 01:33 PM #26
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Raehl - You gotta be kidding that the first few years of electronic markers there was no ramping guns. I will sell you a shocker that I bought in 1998 when I bought a shocker from the Gardners that had "turbo". The angel came out in late 1997 and by June of 1998, All Americans were using this turbo gun. I know because I was at the chicago open when the promotors confronted the Gardner brothers about their new gun. There was a very long discussion on wether to let the gun be used or not. Even back in 1998 when I was talking to Bob, he said whats to keep a guy from the sideline to use a remote control to change the settings on the gun?? So even in the early days, someone was trying to beat the system
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Old 07-17-2004, 03:29 PM #27
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i think they should give them a chance to atleast change htere gun... and if u get shot u get shot weather its one time or 3 times it aint gona matter...
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Old 07-17-2004, 03:30 PM #28
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Originally posted from ForceofNature.com
Late yesterday afternoon there were two DQ's. I wasnt on fields cause of the rains so heres the scoop. Chop Block was disqualified over a gun. They just got their new fly Angels that morning and had a young tech working on setting em up for the afternoon. He wasnt a qualified tech and didnt know enough on how they worked. In their final game of the day when going to chrony a gun, the ref had it burst on him. So when it went to the robot it failed and they were DQed. 665 Almost Evil was also disqalified for reportedly shooting Pink paint.
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Old 07-17-2004, 03:35 PM #29
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Aaah.....ok. The moron who was "teching" the Flys probably did something to the opto leaf or actually put it onto burst mode. Both stupid reasons to risk a DQ.
And that 665 thing? Well thats just plain stupid. They could have at least warned them.
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Old 07-17-2004, 03:54 PM #30
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Id like to know who on chop got the team kicked..
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Old 07-17-2004, 04:01 PM #31
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in the NXL they are totally doing away with all rules surrounding ramping a bouncing for next year. they are just letting it go, but they are lowering the max velocity to 280 or 290. i got this info first hand from an NXL ref who i played a tourny w/ last week
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Old 07-17-2004, 04:57 PM #32
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People know that there guns bounce. Its plain and simple. You pick up a gun and rip, have slow fingers, or wasnt trying, it has bounce/ramp. I think DQ'ing a team for bounce it pointless. If he goes on the field and overshoots a guy, check his gun. Take away some points, dont DQ the guy. Also people still do not realise debounce was made to take away bounce, not add it, so use it that way.
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Old 07-17-2004, 05:01 PM #33
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Its not bouncing that is the big problem its the ramping boards. Their are so many tricks that hide the ramping at the chorno. I personally have no problem with PRO'S using ramping boards and other cheater boards. We all know they have them and we have all seen them. All teams have them and its fair for them to play with them against each other because they are almost at a even playing field. The only Pros that complain are the ones that cant use cheater boards (ie nexus, and other cocker teams.) I have seen the dynasty guns that ramp and everything they are out there so whoever is going to get on me and say "No dynasty doenst use cheater/ramp boards you *** they are just raw" Wake Up! Everyone has them its trickling down into the rec scene now and it going to get dangerous
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Old 07-17-2004, 05:12 PM #34
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ok..Here's an update as to why our team was DQ'd....

As for the pink paint thing...that wasn't the case. Although our Chronic logo's on the front of our jersey's were too close of a match to the orange paint being shot and therefore we had to put tape across the chronic logo.

As for being DQ'd, it has to do with a Tadao board in one of our Ironment trix's. Trust me guys...we are definitely NOT cheaters. Here's how it went down. One of our back guys was asked to put his gun in the robot after a game yesterday. They set it up to do 3 strings of 30 shots. First string was fine...29 out of 30 shots. Second string was 34 out of 30 shots. Third string was 35 out of 30 shots.

We want EVERYONE to know that we did NOT intentionally play with a bouncing gun. Our guy was unable to get it to bounce beforehand and thought he was safe. The ref's could not get it to bounce before they went out onto the field as well. The robot was what got the gun to bounce. We understand that rules are rules and we do not feel bad that we were DQ'd. We understand the rules and abide by the rules and we take full responsibility for having a gun that bounced. If we really wanted to cheat...we would have had a lot more extra shots than just 4 or 5. We'll chalk this one up as a very expensive lesson learned. Our entire team pays for our travel, entry, and accomodations on our own.

I just wanted to clear things up. As for Chop Shop, I'm not sure what the situation is with them but heard that they had the same problem about the Chronic logo as we did. Looks like we'll be buying some fabric dye and changing the color ASAP.

Hope this clears things up
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Old 07-17-2004, 05:25 PM #35
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Re: I don't agree.

Quote:
Originally posted by raehl
It is quite technically feasible to have a one pull, one shot gun, that a player will *KNOW* is a one shot, one pull gun. We had them for 15 years while all markers were mechanical, and we had them for the first few years when markers went electronic as well. Then people started making boards that counted switch bounce as shots, and now we've got boards with 'debounce settings' where it's "one shot, one pull (wink, wink)"

If you have a gun that has a debounce setting, and you have your trigger pull set up short and light, then you're asking for it if your gun bounces. Did you KNOW for sure that your gun was bouncing? Maybe not - but you did go buy the gun that would shoot 20 bps out of the box when you could only shoot 10 bps before.... where do you think those extra shots came from? Guys who are picking up these guns and shooting really fast easily who are "surprised" when they find out the gun is bouncing are kidding themselves.

If you want to MAKE SURE you gun won't bounce, make your pull longer, your trigger spring stiffer, and stop buying boards with debounce settings. If you want to set your trigger up short and light and low debounce because you can shoot faster, you're playing with fire, and it's your own damned fault if you get burnt.

Or go buy an electronic marker from 2000. Bet those won't bounce either.

The question is, will people making the boards start making boards that easily match the rules, or will the leagues back off from enforcing the rules so rigorously first?

I hope people start fixing the boards, and hopefully the continued pressure from the insurance folks will help with that. We have got to put a stop to the trigger arms race before we kill the sport entirely.

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why dont we just quit playing paintball then?
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Old 07-17-2004, 05:28 PM #36
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As someone stated earlier in the bob long statement "Whats keeping someone from setting on the sidelines with a remote..."

In the sad run of things, not alot. All it would take is a programer to sit down with an rf modulator, create a very simple lang. for the chip in the guns frame and a remote, add some programing to "check" for the remotes call to switch the guns firing mode. However, in alot of the guns I've looked into and down at the boards, you'd be hard pressed to fit an rf receiver in them. But thats not saying someone would go the extra mile to make them fit...

Just my .02 on the remote thing
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Old 07-17-2004, 05:30 PM #37
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665AlmostEvil - Man that sucks getting DQ for 5 extra shots from pulling your trigger 30 times.
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Old 07-17-2004, 05:34 PM #38
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I hear ya but rules are rules man. it shot more than what the robot was setup to shoot. Now if they can just make sure that the robot is accessible by all of the teams BEFORE the games start, to make sure noone on your team is bouncing, I think that would be a big help.
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Old 07-17-2004, 05:40 PM #39
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Id like to know how offen and what lab is also recalibrating the Robot to assure that its measuring right every event.


RF been done..

Years ago.. Big name team got busted
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Old 07-17-2004, 05:42 PM #40
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Well, trigger-bounce or ramping is pure cheating. It's like corking a bat in baseball. With illegal marker set-up's, ballers are trying to overcome lack of ability. Don't get me wrong, I feel that there should be NO BPS CAP what-so-ever. If a baller can get his gat up to 30 bps in a game and hit what he is aiming at, I want him on my team. However, if his marker shoots 30 bps into a barrel jimmy after he puts it down onto the ground, He's a cheating some-b!tch....Not Just an idiot for forgetting to shut-off his marker. (Seen that happen at a recent tourny.)
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Old 07-17-2004, 05:58 PM #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by FD~IMPULSE
With illegal marker set-up's, ballers are trying to overcome lack of ability.
Try telling that to the pro's....
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Old 07-17-2004, 05:59 PM #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by 665AlmostEvil
I hear ya but rules are rules man. it shot more than what the robot was setup to shoot. Now if they can just make sure that the robot is accessible by all of the teams BEFORE the games start, to make sure noone on your team is bouncing, I think that would be a big help.
Exactly, you hit the nail right on the head. How fair is it to do the robot after no one can get it to bounce. Have 2 or 3 with operators standing by for teams to test guns before the tourney. It makes no sense to suprise teams with stuff like that.
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