Offical 2004 election debate/discussion - Page 4 - PbNation
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View Poll Results: who will you vote for president
Bush 279 55.58%
Anyone but bush including but not necisarrily hitler. 223 44.42%
Voters: 502. You may not vote on this poll

 
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Old 01-15-2004, 01:25 PM #64
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Quote:
Originally posted by gopedtx6
first off he helped the economy giving tax cut. tax cuts eguall more money for the american consumer which will most likely spend it increasing sales and giving businesses more money. the the businesses will give pay raises and hire more people to keep up with the demand. then the consumer is not so worried about if he is going to get a job or if he is not going to be able to pay the bills. So they spend even more.
Here's the problem with that logic: we have the largest deficit in history, so where did that money come from? When Reagan cut taxes, the economy took off...for a little bit, until it crashed in 1987, and then Bush Sr. had to raise taxes to clean up the mess. And that's exactly what's happening now. But Bush won't repeal his tax cuts - he wouldn't stand a chance of being re-elected. A large percentage of his voters are just shortsighted people who want to pay less taxes. Never mind that they're going to pay them all back and then some later on.

To still believe Saddam had weapons of mass destruction is flat out naive. Chemical weapons? I know for a fact they found some, though it isn't public knowledge yet (I'm just waiting for the GOP to announce it next October, 2 weeks before the election), but certainly not "25,000 liters of anthrax, 38,000 liters of botulinum toxin, and 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent" that George trumpeted in his State of the Union Address.

Not even close.
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Old 01-15-2004, 04:42 PM #65
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is it bushes fault for the faultty intelligance he got from the cia? because this is what you are implieing
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Old 01-15-2004, 05:43 PM #66
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first off he helped the economy giving tax cut. tax cuts eguall more money for the american consumer which will most likely spend it increasing sales and giving businesses more money. the the businesses will give pay raises and hire more people to keep up with the demand. then the consumer is not so worried about if he is going to get a job or if he is not going to be able to pay the bills.
First of all, your whole notion of "tax cuts to the American consumer who will most likely spend it" is wrong. This is because in 2003, the top 5% of earners revcieved 30% of the tax cut. These are the people LEAST likely to spend that money immidiately because these are the people that don't have an immidiate need to spend the money. Essentially, he was just giving back money to the wealthy for little or no reason. This is not money that the american economy will see any time soon.

Then you go on to say that american businesses will hire more people... which again is entirely worng. After hundreds of thousands of layoffs, experts were expecting 130,000 jobs to be created in December. Well the numbers just came out, and only 1000 jobs were created in the entire month. Before you say something stupid like "well its progress, we can;t ask for a complete recovery immidiately" do the math- 1000 jobs means an average of 20 jobs a STATE. That means that if you and a friends were to decide to go to the local Walmart to make some spending money, the 2 of you would account for 10% of the entire state's new jobs.

So since middle americans didn't get much of the tax cut, and more jobs haven't been made, there hasn't been any help for the average american.

Quote:
And know we ask how do you know there is no and was no wmd and how could we prove it if saddam would not let our weapon inspectors in?
Definately wrong. UN weapons inspectors were in Iraq until WE said that they should get out of there because we were invading.

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is it bushes fault for the faultty intelligance he got from the cia? because this is what you are implieing
yes
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Old 01-15-2004, 06:09 PM #67
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Quote:
Originally posted by gopedtx6
is it bushes fault for the faultty intelligance he got from the cia? because this is what you are implieing
Why wouldnt it be? He is the president after all.
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Old 01-15-2004, 06:11 PM #68
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anyone but bush! hes giving the Republicans a bad rap now!
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Old 01-15-2004, 10:23 PM #69
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Haha, "you can't prove that there aren't WOMD in Iraq!"

To everyone who is pleading that, grow a brain. The only reason people have said there are WOMD, is because the Bush administration said there are. The burden of proof lies with them since they made the claims, not everyone else to prove them wrong.
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Old 01-15-2004, 10:33 PM #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by gopedtx6
is it bushes fault for the faultty intelligance he got from the cia? because this is what you are implieing
It's his fault for using this intelligence and passing it off as fact. The CIA told him there wasn't any solid evidence to back it up.
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Old 01-16-2004, 12:05 AM #71
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So William Clinton for President in 2004
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Old 01-16-2004, 03:32 AM #72
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Quote:
Originally posted by gopedtx6
is it bushes fault for the faultty intelligance he got from the cia? because this is what you are implieing
One time my 5 year old told me the sky was green. I proceeded to hold a press confrence and a session with the UN and to proclaim such.. even though when I went outside, I could see the sky was obviously blue.
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Old 01-16-2004, 10:24 AM #73
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One time my 5 year old told me the sky was green. I proceeded to hold a press confrence and a session with the UN and to proclaim such.. even though when I went outside, I could see the sky was obviously blue.
gopedtx6 = pwnt
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Old 01-16-2004, 11:23 PM #74
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I have yet to see a politician that put the peoples needs over there own. In fact, i think that to become a politician, you have to be the kind of person that doesnt. Therefore none of them deserve my vote (if i could vote).
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Old 01-16-2004, 11:26 PM #75
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Hundreds of americans and thousands of iraqis are dead because bush lied in an attempt to get relected. End of story.
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Old 01-16-2004, 11:36 PM #76
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Several people seem to be assuming that there was no WMD program in Iraq and Bush's administration concocted that story after the fact when in reality it was an accepted, if unproven, fact from the get-go. Why were there UN inspectors there in the first place if he never had a WMD program? Why all the deception and lies as well as the outright removal of inspectors in 98 if Iraq was quietly following the rules and disarming themselves? Hey, I don't know. I get most of my information from the same places every one else does and we know that the media has an agenda. I will assume that the people making those decisions had access to more information than I did and make the choice they felt represented the interests of our nation best. In trying to gain a little more info I found a few pre-Bush pieces and they were interesting. They are here:
WMD and Iraq
Nuclear threat?

I am still reading information on the steel tariffs that Tuna is so upset about, but it seems to me that there is evidence to both support and fault those tariffs based on who you choose to believe so I will read on before coming to a firm opinion.

I will probably vote for an independent, although that is most likely going to help Bush. I do not want to see a Dem in office because I do not agree with most social programs or the expansion of government. This isn't really the interesting election anyway. The interesting election will be in 2008 when the dems run Hillary and who will the republicans put up against her? She is, after all, the devil.

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Old 01-17-2004, 12:52 AM #77
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Quote:
Originally posted by bluelite
The interesting election will be in 2008 when the dems run Hillary and who will the republicans put up against her? She is, after all, the devil.
and there it is
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Old 07-24-2004, 12:56 PM #78
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WTF happened to the other official election thread? it was so much better
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Old 07-24-2004, 01:26 PM #79
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Quote:
Originally posted by zack
Why wouldnt it be? He is the president after all.
If my little brother's teacher (who is presumed to be knowledgable about what she teaches) tells him that 2+2 = 5, should i get mad at my brother or his teacher?

i guess you libs would say i should get mad at my brother
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Old 07-24-2004, 02:01 PM #80
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The president is the top of the chain of command. All success and failure falls squarely on his shoulders.
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Old 07-24-2004, 02:34 PM #81
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Quote:
Originally posted by tuna

Then you go on to say that american businesses will hire more people... which again is entirely worng. After hundreds of thousands of layoffs, experts were expecting 130,000 jobs to be created in December. Well the numbers just came out, and only 1000 jobs were created in the entire month.
This statement makes you, sir, an idiot. From the months of August 2003- May 2004, over one million new jobs were created- 300,000 in March alone.

Now as for all you "there never were any WMDS"-spouting saps, did anyone pay attention when two truckloads full of chemical weapons were comfiscated in Jordan headed from Iraq a couple months ago?

Also the "there already were weapons inspectors in the country for years" argument craps out as well, because each time they'd hit a site, the Iraqis had an average of two hours' warning to hightail WMD evidence out the back door and get it safely hundreds of miles away. Sadam had plenty of desert in which to hide his weapons.

And if you think he DIDN'T have him, you really need to reevaluate the situation and think about this for a sec: Before the war, he had twenty palaces, two sons, and billions of dollars, not to mention an army at his command. Why would he refuse to the very end, at the cost of his sons life and all of his former possessions if he had absolutely nothing to hide?

Oh yeah... not to mention the fact that he DID have them and used them on some of his own people.
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Old 07-24-2004, 02:35 PM #82
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about WMD, I know during the first war the British dropped from SAS team behind the lines, they happen upon a pool of water and 2 of the team members drank from it, they began bleeding from the mouth and the lose of teeth occurred, after they made it back to friendly lines they where taken to hospital for treatment, come to find out they drank Heavy Water, this is used in the making of Nukes. Not to long ago 3 scuds where found with gas in the warheads, hmmm and now last month documents where found written by Saddams family on acquiring support for the terrorist.
The news is so bias, never hear how 20,000 people protested for the Allied forces their. I saw an interview, was pretty interesting, they where protesting the US and her allies. The reporter asked the person what they thought about what happen with the overthrow of Saddam, and the US forces on their soil. the man replied, I want the Americans to go home, since the Saddam is out of power, then he replied, I love the Americans for giving us freedom, only one year ago, they would have killed us or jailed us and our families. Seems to be they are learning pretty fast about freedom.
As far as Carey they guy really scares me, changes his mind too much, and any man who wrote his own awards for combat is something else.
You may not think I know what I am talking about, but since I did serve during the First Gulf War and I work at a veterans’ hospital, I might have a little knowledge.
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Old 07-24-2004, 02:36 PM #83
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"This statement makes you, sir, an idiot. From the months of August 2003- May 2004, over one million new jobs were created- 300,000 in March alone. "
He made that statement in january....
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Old 07-24-2004, 03:20 PM #84
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Quote:
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The president is the top of the chain of command. All success and failure falls squarely on his shoulders.
They do.

but just because the CIA failed doesnt mean he lied. It just means that the CIA messed up while he was in control so it will (and should) make him look bad. I just cant stand people assuming that he knowingly lied to the entire world.
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