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Old 02-09-2002, 11:24 PM #1
abracadabra1
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E-2 Upgrade Questions

I recently purchased a Black Dragon E-2 straight from Pi. The gun is gorgeous, the trigger is great, and it shoots very fast. I think it's quite loud though; too loud for my tastes.

Nevertheless, I'm sticking with the gun and am wondering what upgrades I should look to getting. I'm pressed for money so I don't really want to invest in anything that won't give me a significant or at least noticeable performance increase.

These are the upgrades I'm looking to get:
- Turbo Valve (any turbo valve ~$25): Should I be looking to get a more expensive valve like the AKA tornado valve?
- Delrin bolt ~ $25 (high flowing, like the one made by tarantula): Should I be looking to get an AKA Lightning bolt instead?
- ANS GenX Regulator ~$80 (cheaper reg instead perhaps?) Suggestions?
- Macroline upgrade
- 32 degrees Shark drop forward
- Freak barrel kit ~$180 (another switchable insert barrel instead?)

Thx for the help and advice fellas.

Any questions about the E2 feel free to ask.
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Old 02-10-2002, 12:07 PM #2
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Congrats on the new toy. Post a pic in my pic thread! My friend is serisously contemplating getting this as his next gun (we both have 2 BDs, and I recently bought a timmy, so he has to get a third marker too... ), so I'd love to see a nice close-up of yours, and get your thoughts as you use it more.

Anyway, from your list, it looks like you are going to try to convert your E2 to Low Pressure. I've converted my first BD to LP, but it wasn't a walk in the park (Of course, it was my first marker as well...)

Anyway, Here is what I would suggest:

Turbo Valve and Pin: You'll need a high-flowing pin to go with the turbo valve. 32 degrees or Taso make a fine set, but don't be surprised if even the turbo pin needs some grinding--I had to! I've only heard good things about the AKA Tornado, so your call on the extra expense.

LP Vertical Adapter and Volumizer: 32 degress makes a LP VA that comes with the Bob Long volumizer. FirstCallpaintball, pbgear, and I think a few other places have them. I got mine at firstcall and it made a *huge* difference (and I had already drilled out my stock VA to 3/16"!). Which volumizer you get is preference. I think the Bob Long one looks cool, and is still pretty big. If you want the absolute largest volume, the ShockTech LPC is friggin' HUGE. Again, AKA makes stuff here too, so your call.

Bolt: Black Magic Bolt, AKA Lightning, Swan Creek N-Bolt would all be good. Haven't heard of the tarantula, but you got the right idea on what you need, so go with your preference.

Barrel: I have a freak on mine, but it is not an efficient barrel system for LP. The Lapco or CP barrels (with more unported barrel length) are superior choices for performance. I am purposely giving up some efficiency on my gun for the versatility and looks of the freak. You might be willing to make the same trade-off, I just wanted to point it out to you.

Inline Reg: I use a MACDev Gladiator, and I am getting a Vigilante to play with too--I like the fact that I can set it up for high pressure or low pressure. I do not like the looks of the Gen-X, but they are an excellent performer, so if you like the looks, go for it. Other good choices would be a Messiah or Palmer's.

Other: Maddman Spring Kit (for a Spyder). This is a must. You *will* need to change the valve spring and/or the striker spring going to LP, so this kit will give you a variety of springs at different tensions so you can get the gun set up properly.

Optional:

Agitated hopper: although my friend did not have a problem on his BD, I had chronic ball-breakage on mine until I got a Rico 2K. Haven't had a ball break since.

On/Off ASA (KAPP, CP, etc.): Makes pressure adjustments and system changes (springs, etc.) a lot easier cause you won't have to screw the tank in and out, in and out, in and out... Plus they look cool.

By the way, I was just playing around with my BDs yesterday, and while I was tweaking my LP BD, I thought "Man, this doesn't seem much quieter than my stock one!". But then I tried my second stock one, and in comparison it about blew my eardrums out! Now I wouldn't say that going LP made the BD super quiet (like my timmy, an angel, etc.), but it is a heck of a lot quieter than stock...

I don't know if I forgot anything, but you can look in my sig for a pic and list of mods. Good Luck.
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Last edited by cohiba : 02-10-2002 at 12:31 PM.
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Old 02-10-2002, 02:21 PM #3
abracadabra1
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great post! very informative and helpful- appreciate it!

I've decided on the following parts:
Swancreek N-Bolt
32degrees set consisting of the high-flowing valve and pin

I still have some questions about the vertical adapter and the regulator, as well as the On/Off ASA you suggested.

Where does the regulator attach? Would I just remove my current foregrip from the E-2 and attach the regulator there?

What about the vertical adapter? What is it really? Sounds like just a LPC to me. Please explain what it is and its uses as well as its position on the gun.


On/Off ASA? What does it do? Where does it go? Link to a picture perhaps?

Also, I wanted to get
this dropforward but it seems that it is inline and the screws on the E-2 and all spyders aren't, is there anyway for me to use this dropforward? Some sort of adapter perhaps?

Also, if you happen to know any links to pictures of spyders w/ the parts mentioned on them could you point me in there direction?

Thx again man. I apologize for my cluelessness.

As for the E-2, I think it's a great little gun. It has an extremely high ROF, the trigger is super light and a pleasure to use, the finish on the marker is excellent, and it is very well made. My only complaints are that it is a tad too loud and that the Pi E-2 sticker doesn't have enough adhesive so it constantly falls off. As a matter of fact, I just lost mine yesterday. Not really a big deal though. The gun is amazingly consistant considering it doesn't have a regulator. I'm not sure if this is attributed to the gun or my Crossfire 51ci stub tank, but it sure is consistant (+/- 8 fps); normally around ~275 fps at the current adjusted velocity (field limit is 280). The LCD is nice and painless, though a little difficult to read when it's too bright outside (as with all lcds). The marker has been reliable thus far and has not chopped paint (I do have a 12V VL revy so that of course helps). Even with my Dye Excel however, it is not extremely accurate or precise, it is fair in my opinion (it should be noted that I do have very demanding needs for accuracy). This too is probably due to the paint used on the field (TC Venom which is supposedly .693 bore and the fact that the Dye Excel barrel is listed as .688).

Overall, I think it's a great marker and I'd like to make it better
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Old 02-10-2002, 03:58 PM #4
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The URL to your dropforward doesn't show a pic. Is is perhaps the same is the one at http://www.actionvillage.com/031-7960-1.html

That DF already has an On/Off ASA! The ASA (Air Source Adapter) is the thing on the bottom of the grip (or the bottom of a DF) that the air tank screws into. An On/Off ASA is just that--an ASA that has a knob you can twist to turn the airflow on or off. You can see a pic of a couple different styles if you click on the guns in my sig. The Timmy has a KAPP On/Off and the Dragun has a Custom Products (CP) On/Off. You can also get a pic of the regulator, Vertical Adapter, Volumizer, and everything else there!

And yes, Spyder's and their clones have "offset" bottomline holes. There are adapters available to convert to inline holes--I have one--but they don't look so great. To use regular DFs, I drilled and tapped the grip on my Black Draguns, adding my own inline holes, but try that at your own risk!

The vertical adapter is not the same as the LPC. It is the piece that the LPC screws into! It is removable (the whole valve assembly is accessed by removing the Vertical Adapter) and has three holes (look at your marker with the barrel pointing left):

The LPC screws into the left side, a gas-through grip or vertical inline regulator screws into the bottom, and the right side slides into the lower front portion of the main body. If you look at my BD, you should be able to see it clearly cause I changed out the blue stock piece with the black 32 degrees one, so now the LPC, VA, and Vertical Regulator are all one big solid black upside-down "L". Can you see it? I don't know how else to explain it. But trust me, you want it...

Inline regulators come in 2 main kinds: bottomline and vertical. Bottomline regs are integrated into the ASA, vertical regs replace your gas-through grip. So yes, if you got a vert reg, it would replace your current foregrip.

The E2 looks like it is a BD with different milling, integrated sight rail (which I don't care for), and an LCD in the grip. From the small pics I've seen, I actually prefer the older Black Dragun body to the E-2 body, which is why I would really like to see a close-up pic of your gun in my pic thread (hint, hint...) And yeah, I use CrossFire tanks exclusively now. I think they're great.

On accuracy: that is a serious paint/barrel mismatch. You should buy a bigger-bored barrel for when you play at that field.

I hope I got all your questions. Damn, I ought to start a FAQ!
And again, for visuals, look at my pic thread, or you can look at the guns in my sig. That might help a lot.
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Last edited by cohiba : 02-10-2002 at 04:05 PM.
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Old 02-10-2002, 04:43 PM #5
abracadabra1
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Thx for the clarification. Now I know what all those damn things are!
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Old 02-10-2002, 05:04 PM #6
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One last thing, I can't seem to find your regulator. Where exactly is it? I'm looking at your ASA and thinking that the part w/ the gauge might be your reg, but then again, isn't that supposed to be the ASA?

Thx again.
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Old 02-10-2002, 06:34 PM #7
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The black foregrip is the reg. It is a MACDev Gladiator inline regulator. The blue thing is the CP On/Off ASA, as you surmised.

Thanks for finally posting a pic! It actually looks better than I thought.

Also, I updated the pic thread with my latest pic. I realized after telling you to look at my pics that I didn't have a pic with the black VA!
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Blue Black Dragun #1: Freak with 12" Black TD, AA Vigilante, Snap-Back N-Bolt, Taso Turbo Valve & Pin, Maddman Springs, Bob Long LP VA + LPC, CheckIt Trigger, Rico 2K, ShockTech DF, CP On/Off, CrossFire 47/3K, RASE cover

Blue Black Dragun #2: Black CP 10", MACDev Gladiator, 32 Deg Turbo Valve, ShockTech Delrin Bolt, ShockTech LPC, CheckIt Trigger, Rico Shell, KAPP DoveTail DZ, CP On/Off, CrossFire 47/3K, RASE cover
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Last edited by cohiba : 02-10-2002 at 06:39 PM.
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Old 02-10-2002, 08:10 PM #8
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First, I'll respond to your questions in the picture thread.
I'm pretty sure that the E-2 doesn't accept standard 45 grips (just like the original BD). That really is a shame cause I'd love to snap on some nice DYE stickys.
The sightrail is removable and I will be removing it when I get a chance to get all my parts together and start modding my gun a little bit.

Here's another set of questions for ya. Where can I find the 32degrees vertical adapter w/ the bob long volumizer? I checked pbgear.com and only found the 32 degreees vertical adapter for $12 (no sign of the volumizer). Also, could you post a close-up picture of that regulator? I'm wondering how it would look on my E-2 and so am curious to see a better picture of it.

Thx again!
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Old 02-10-2002, 09:24 PM #9
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On the grips, I was afraid of that. But it looked like the bottom hole isn't offset like it is on the BD, so why wouldn't they fit? Are they still too tall?

Without the sight rail, I would like the look better. Cool.

Yeah, I can get a close up, but I don't think you'll get a better pic than you can already find online at www.paintballkingdom.com or www.macdev.net If those don't satisfy, let me know and I'll post a close-up of mine. Suffice to say, I looked long and hard for a black inline reg that didn't have those stupid finger-grooves, wasn't too long, and had a bottom-line. However, one note is that the 32 degrees VA is actually much shorter than the stock VA, so the grip is a lot shorter with this new VA--almost too short! You could easily get away with a longer reg (Palmer's, Vigi, etc.) and it wouldn't look bad at all.

I'm not sure that the 32 degrees VA at pbgear is the Low Pressure one. I've only found what I have at 2 places: county and firstcall.

FirstCallPaintBall: http://www.firstcallpaintball.com/de...duct_id=FCP195
They only list the chrome one, but if you call and talk to them, they do stock a black one, and you can order it. This is where I got mine.
County Paintball: http://www.countypaintball.com/produ...n.asp?item=959
This URL show a really good picture of what the black one looks like. They show it with a short delay, but they are a buck cheaper, and you can order it online with less hassle.

I honestly didn't think I would like the volumizer, but once I stuck it on my gun, I was hooked. Trust me. It would look awesome on your E2!
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Blue Black Dragun #1: Freak with 12" Black TD, AA Vigilante, Snap-Back N-Bolt, Taso Turbo Valve & Pin, Maddman Springs, Bob Long LP VA + LPC, CheckIt Trigger, Rico 2K, ShockTech DF, CP On/Off, CrossFire 47/3K, RASE cover

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Black Dragun FAQ
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Old 02-10-2002, 09:58 PM #10
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The picture at macdev.net was great. I think the gladiator is too thick for my tastes and I'm going to go ahead and get an ANS GenX regulator (vertical, not inline).

Thx for all the advice bud. I should be posting back in about 2 weeks w/ my upgrades and stuff.

If there's anything I can do for you, please don't hesitate to ask.

Thx again!
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Old 02-14-2002, 08:47 AM #11
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I've decided to use my money and buy a timmy instead of upgrading my e-2. if you know anyone that's interested in a practically new e-2 w/ a brand new swan creek nbolt for $250, send me a message

abracadabra@bellsouth.net
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Old 02-14-2002, 02:38 PM #12
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What the heck you doin' that fer???

I got a timmy too, but wouldn't sell either of my BDs...

I may want the N-bolt, if you'd sell just that. Is it side or rear-cocking? Send me a pic?
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Blue Black Dragun #2: Black CP 10", MACDev Gladiator, 32 Deg Turbo Valve, ShockTech Delrin Bolt, ShockTech LPC, CheckIt Trigger, Rico Shell, KAPP DoveTail DZ, CP On/Off, CrossFire 47/3K, RASE cover
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Old 02-14-2002, 08:35 PM #13
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i haven't completely made my decision yet, and i think you'd really be the person that could best answer this question for me.

completing the lp mod and upgrades on my e-2 will cost ~$400+. buying a new timmy w/ the drop i'd like will cost around $650. if i sell my e-2 and use the $400 that is currently designated for ugprades i could easily buy the timmy. do you think i'd be better off upgrading my e-2 so that i'd have a custom gun that noone else will have and that i will be familiar with. or should i just get the timmy?

essentially, the cost will be the same. so the question remains: upgraded e-2 or timmy?

a big part of this decision hangs on what you say. will my e-2 shoot very quietly? will i be satisfied with the performance increase as a result of the lp mod. or am i better off getting another marker (e.g. timmy)?

thx a ton bud, once again
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Old 02-15-2002, 02:00 AM #14
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my feelings ,just a thought.....

I feel to spend a lot of money on a BD would be a time wast as you will never get your money back . when you sell it.
Ask your self what or how must better would your marker work shoot etc ... if there is a drastic improvment well spend if there is only a small % then do not wast your money.

the only upgrades i would say is needed is a bolt made out of
a poly matrial ( aka, or somthing simlar) this will stop any damage to the internals and a better barrel (lapco
Dye , armson SSR)
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Old 02-15-2002, 02:36 AM #15
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abra, I must have a very different perspective on this than most people. I have over $900 in my first Black Dragun. That's right, over $900, so I spent over $700 upgrading my BD so far! But you know what? I don't regret one damn red cent! So what that I now have a timmy. As you can see from my postings here, I still love playing around with my BD. People that say it is a waste of money, cause you can't resell it for that, are missing the whole friggin' point! What you really can't do is buy the experience and confidence that you will get from really getting into the guts of your marker, and molding it into whatever you want it to be.

Oh, and if you think you won't want to dump $400 into your timmy, you're fooling yourself! I have over a grand into mine. (keep in mind that both of these markers are using cheap steel 47ci CrossFires ($70 on sale at pbgear), so imagine what the cost would be if I had a $400 adjustable on there!)

There is no denying the timmy is a better gun. And my LP BD is quieter than stock, but not as quiet as my timmy. And the E2 will never have some of the things on the timmy (anti-chop eye), Blah, Blah, and BLAH!

You would never regret the learning and fun you had with your E2. Now, it's sadly true that not everyone's finances allow this flexibility, and if you are contemplating years before you could afford a timmy if you mod your E2, then it might be something you have to consider. But if I were you, I would suggest that if that's the case, you don't convert your E2, but you don't sell it either. Admit it, it works great as-is. Play with it for now, save your $400, then save a little longer, and buy the timmy. This way you wait a little longer for the timmy, but you end up with a loaner/backup in the deal too.

Btw, my friend has really wanted a timmy since I got mine. But guess what--I just talked him into getting an E2 earlier this week. In fact, I just held it and played with it for the first time tonight! Yeah, he thinks about how much closer he could be to a timmy if he hadn't done it, but in the long run, he won't regret it, and I don't think you would either.

You wanted my $.02, there it is.
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Blue Black Dragun #1: Freak with 12" Black TD, AA Vigilante, Snap-Back N-Bolt, Taso Turbo Valve & Pin, Maddman Springs, Bob Long LP VA + LPC, CheckIt Trigger, Rico 2K, ShockTech DF, CP On/Off, CrossFire 47/3K, RASE cover

Blue Black Dragun #2: Black CP 10", MACDev Gladiator, 32 Deg Turbo Valve, ShockTech Delrin Bolt, ShockTech LPC, CheckIt Trigger, Rico Shell, KAPP DoveTail DZ, CP On/Off, CrossFire 47/3K, RASE cover
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Old 02-24-2002, 01:10 PM #16
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Well, I decided to side with cohiba on this. I am a computer enthusiast, and have been building custom machines for about 4 years. I love everything about the machines I build, but most of all, I love that I built them. It doesn't matter if my computer is the best or not, it doesn't matter if it performs the best or not (although it normally does ), what does matter is that I spent my time modifying it to my liking and that I know every single piece inside of my computer. I would like this same intimate relationship with my gun. If it is to be my gun, then I must modify it to my liking, and I would rather have a modified E-2 that cost me $250 plus another $600 in upgrades than an $850 autococker or impulse that someone else built.

I'll be sure to post pics of my E-2 once I've upgraded it.

Btw, I was at the field this weekend and a guy that had bought an autococker said "Dude, your gun shoots awesome. If I wouldn't have just bought an autococker I would've bought this. How much did it cost?"

me: "$250"
Him: "What?!"

I also love that I'm the only one on the field with this gun and that more than likely noone else will have it for quite some time.

I love my E-2!
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