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Old 02-09-2002, 12:21 AM #22
JCC
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I was not the one making outrageous claims about how one gun shoots farther then another. And I have shot over those new chornos and only hit 13 on it, but I only tried once. I did not shoot your gun at MGO just looked at it, was the Masters when I tried it and the gun chocked up. You may have had a better setup at mardigra since you had several months to improve. And I apologize for the stupid commit, but I did not actualy call you stupid and you even corrected your statement yourself.
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Old 02-09-2002, 03:47 PM #23
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Let's keep this thread on the attributes of the Firestorm

I personally feel that all closed vs open bolt accuracy/trajectory/distance discussions should be moved to the "Paintball Talk" forum or a specially created "Rumors and other opinions I believe to be fact" forum.

I think many of us are reserved about the cosmetic appeal of the trigger guard and mildly concerned with the "if the back block doesn't move is it still a cocker" question. The potential performance and price benefits will win converts though. I, for one, am going to wait for the dust to settle before I decide on a conversion. After all, it's not how fast you can empty your hopper that wins games.
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Old 02-09-2002, 05:13 PM #24
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As far as the rules of physics argument, that would only apply if both the markers you are comparing were locked in in place, and shot from there.
However, in a real life scenerio, you also must take into consideration that most paint ball players are incapable of keeping their gun perfectly steady.
When an open bolt marker is fired, you have to deal with a bolt slamming foward, before the ball is fired, which potentialy will throw off your aim. But when you fire a closed bolt marker, then the ball is fired, and is halfway down the barrel before the bolt starts moving around.

Also, I for one happen to like the uprising frame, because it seems like it would be handy to have one less solenoid on your gun.

Just my opinion,

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Old 02-09-2002, 05:59 PM #25
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The centerflag guys are awesome possum. As well as sandrdige guns are the best, but they also cost the most. If u can flip the bill the sandridge f5s are the best, if you dont want to spend that much get a centerflag. Raceguns dont really float my boat, their trigger is my probolem. But ALL of them are better designs than this PGI thingy. Its not even a cocker, its a gun that uses a cocker body. THATS IT! no cocker bolt, no cocker pneumatics. This is no electro conversion, this is a kit where the dudes wanted to use a cocker body. not to say its bad, but its really not the same thing as an electro cocker. Centerflag guys are cook, Rich at sandridge is awesome, and he says ethan at propaitnball is cool so ill take his werd, and the dude who moderates teh forms and werx at racegun in denmark is cool. So we have 3 cool guys at 3 cool companys that make great products. Why do we need this firestorm frame? Well if things like the firestrom conversion didnt exist then we wouldnt know how nice the others really were and we would take them for granted. id like to shoot a pgi sometime, but i will never call it a cocker thats disrespectfull of what cockers really are. kinda like saying clinton was a democrat, or bush is a human.
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Old 02-10-2002, 04:02 PM #26
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While it may not be a cocker, it *IS* ignorant to bash something that you have no experience with. If you haven't shot one, then saying anything other than "it's ugly" is kinda stupid. I'm not even going to begin on the political comments, those just seem unnecessary and uneducated to me.

But, as far as this PGI kit goes... I think design wise it'd be SUPERIOR to others. You eliminate some unnecessary parts and replace the spring with a pneumatic ram to drive the hammer, which seems much better to me. It's basically like building an Excal into the body of a cocker, but the bolt timing is different. I wish it looked better, but heck... I still might put one on my Ripper just to get a gun that looks/feels/performs the way I want it to.
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Old 02-10-2002, 08:56 PM #27
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well is it a cocker or not a cocker

of course im talking about the firestorm ? so it seems it takes only a little reasoning to come to a conclusion . if you have a mustang and change the engine in it ,its still considered a mustang anit it ?even if the engine was made buy someone else, so if you look up the word conversion that meens to change something .

so since the origonal cocker wasnt electronic that means it was changed converted whatever word you want to use , so on the side of my ripper it says wgp , what does that stand for ? worr games products so i would consider my ripper with this conversion it would still be a cocker to me, and wouldnt you say the firestorm is more of an electronic gun then just the grip of some of the other conversions.

so by eliminating some parts ,changing front block , and a few other things saving three hundred dollars and getting your cocker to perform better is that a bad upgrade ?

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Old 02-11-2002, 10:58 PM #28
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Come on now, the open/closed bolt debate is like so 1995.

The centerflag frame is nice but I was even outshooting it at the 'Cup and I play with a cocker built from extra parts from my toolbox.
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Old 02-14-2002, 04:02 AM #29
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Please don't compare the Centerflag and Racegun electro frames to the Firestorm one. The Firestorm IS NOT A COCKER anymore and once mounted, cannot be changed back into one.

Please let me know why on earth you would want to take a nice Cocker and make it OPEN BOLT???? That's blasphemy and besides, a stock 2k1 VF will cost you 375 or so, the Firestorm grip another $450, total $825. That's one expensive open bolt electro - add another $150 and get your self a base Angel!

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Old 02-14-2002, 06:53 AM #30
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capt klutz, if you dont like it you can put everything back on your cocker , because they are not doing anything to prevent you from puting all the things back on , there is no milling or changing the body , who was comparing the race and centerflag ? if you change the engine in a car it doesent change the make of the car, but if this is a cocker we were saying it is cheaper and just as fast so whats the problem ? with the sandridge and race being so high maybe the firestorm will cause a reduction in the prices ? it may not have all gadgetry of the race what it comes down to is performance and price .

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Old 02-14-2002, 11:06 AM #31
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It is totaly reversable just like the other kits. And you don't have to spend nearly that much to build one of these.. Raw body $150, This kit $400 bam your done.. Need a valve, valve spring, and screws to, but if your like me you got that stuff laying around.. If not thats less then another $50.. So $600 tops for a complete gun. For what you said you could get a custom milled and anodized body kit and have a sweet looking gun though.
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Old 02-14-2002, 11:09 AM #32
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Oh, and in my opinion this thing shoots as nice as a stock LCD so why spend another $150 for one of those? Though a LCD does get better gas mileage.. With the right combinations of springs I think these kits effeceincy can get alot better.
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Old 02-14-2002, 05:23 PM #33
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Just because the bolt is open at rest doesn't mean it will hinder the performance or that it functions the same as an open bolt electro. It is VERY much different. The bolt and hammer movement are separate. It's more like an Excal that is timed to be open bolt than an Angel. I swear... people are ALWAYS bashing things when they are different/ugly/they have no knowledge of the product.
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Old 02-14-2002, 10:49 PM #34
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Personally I stand behind centerflag. They've been a reputable company and have been out there for a while, plus everything is in the frame which I love. I've shot the propaintball one (the guys are cool but I outshot the frame easily, and it looked half finished at cal jam, so I didn't like it). I own a centerflag uprising, which I bought after shooting the PGI and the ProPaintball frame (yes I've been playing with the PGI the whole time leon has been playing around with it at the field trying to convince everyone it was better because you could switch it to open or closed bolt). Since you people are soooo intense on comparing them, and since I actually have the experience in this, I'm going to comment. First off, the PGI is UGLY, but I'm not even concerned about it. I wanna give everyone a nice history lesson. This was designed by the guys at PGI and Leon of tombstone paintball. Tombstone is... shall we say cheap? The fields are made of pieces that city has donated or scrap he bought off the city/construction yards. The fields are all outdated, and he charges more than SC Village. But Leon is a cool guy, i've known him for a number of years, and he's friendly and an all around nice guy, he just needs to update the fields. Now lets get into PGI. Those 'great' regs are ACI regs if I remember correctly, since this is the same makers of the Mayhem which is distributed by ACI. Did I mention that PGI is just the new name for the company that went bankrupt with the Nova? just wanted everyone to be clear about how reputable the company is

Now I dunno a lot about the race company, but lets look at centerflag. They make some of the best tanks on the market, plus their frames for other guns are godly, honestly I still cant figure out how I was shooting around 13bps on an inferno.... (tony made me quit playing with it at caljam.... i kept ripping on it cause it was fun! lol). I know they stand behind their products, Tony and Dennis are great people and give great support. I have no problem ripping with my uprising, its great and looks awesome (especially since mine is ano'd to match the gun).

Going back to the debate, is the PGI a cocker still? Well first off, on the field I hated it, it was uncomfortable and felt like an F4 illustrator..... and it couldn't really 'rip'. But going back to the debate, what is and what is not a cocker? Is a viking a cocker? Is a merlin a cocker? was the tribal a cocker? If you want to get down to it, you know the answers, and if you want to compare the PGI to anything, it shoots and feels like a tribal, so compare it to that. Tribal's used cocker bodies also, so how many of you classify them as cockers? I'm just curious....

As I said and I'll say it again, I stand behind centerflag, I'm a very satisfied owner of an uprising while I have shot the others out there prior to buying my uprising, and I have shot the PGI after I got my uprising and the uprising is still my cup of tea.

Oh and on the debate of accuracy with a cocker, I still havent seen any true SCIENTIFIC proof that cockers are more/less accurate. You're all arguing that if I can throw a nectarine 50ft and an peach 50ft, that they taste the same without taking a bite. Show me proof and I'll believe one or the other. From my experience, I've always been a believer cockers are not as accurate/get farther distance. But I will say this, now that I own a cocker, I get twice as many kills and feel like I'm shooting flatter/straighter than with any other gun I've owned, but thats just my personal feelings which there is NO science behind. This is almost as bad as the Vert Feed trend debate with the HALO loader and the problems angel users are having..........
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Old 02-14-2002, 11:35 PM #35
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Tribals are not cocker bodies.... And I wont go into the other misconceptions you have because there realy to minor to matter. How you can say it feals like a F-4 puzzels me though. It holds just like a standerd cocker grips are same place and size and there mounted on the same body.
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Old 02-16-2002, 01:16 AM #36
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Since this is not an autococker, this is closed.

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