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Old 01-28-2002, 11:11 PM #1
angel4life
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Firestorm-More info and pictures



Ok here's what I've gathered based on my experience and observations of what I purchased for my store-
The kit has been really well designed and doesnt have much that can go wrong. Timing is not an issue at all. Setting up the system is really easy. The regulator that comes with the kit seems to be pretty consistant, works well with both C02 and N2, can keep up with the ROF, and you can take it appart if needed. The new front block is not big at all:

The bolt is removable just as a standard autococker. The trigger is adjustable in 3 points. It uses a microswitch, not a dome switch. The standard model comes with either a switch bounce board (almost like turbo yet still semi) and a standard semi. Efficiancy seems to be the only thing that the gun lacks. You can expect it to be better than the shocker but not as good as standard cockers. I'll do a test later to give you shot numbers with different tank sizes. Well, that's all for now if anyone has any questions I'll do my best to answer.
-Alex
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Old 01-28-2002, 11:53 PM #2
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if the back block doesnt move...how can it still function as a closed bolt??
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Old 01-29-2002, 12:59 AM #3
JCC
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The bolt still moves just not the back block. The face of the bolt moves while the back remains stationary. And its not closed bolt in the traditonal way. The bolt sets in a normaly open postion for faster feed and ease of design. The bolt moves forward independent of hammer just like in any cocker though. The bolt face moves forward quicker then the hammer about 30 miliseconds quicker. So the bolt moves to the closed postion with plenty of time to spare before the hammer comes forward opening the valve and allowing air to the bolt. So there is no blowback just like a traditonal cocker unlike open bolts where the hammer and bolt move togethor. This is not like standerd open bolts that claim they shoot from a closed postion, because unlike those where the hammer opens the valve right at the same time the bolt closes and keeps it open a second while the bolt returns this system actualy delays the hammer so the bolt is fully closed before the hammer hits. Then when the solinoid is depressurized both move back into there starting postion and wait the next shot. Besides the electronics everything else seems preety much to simple to be a problem. The bolt and hammer just have a couple o-rings that could go bad, and then the front reg is just like any other pneumatic reg you may have used. The solinoid is a industry standerd clippard which if its as good as there rams should be rated up 200,000 cycles, and were told is a fairly inexpensive part anyway. Considering to get all the upgraded parts for your cocker that this takes the place of will only be about $75-100 cheaper then getting this kit I think its well worth the money. $100 cheaper then any of the other kits plus you don't have to spend money on all the other upgrades this kit would replace and the others wouldn't saves you another $200. So basicly this kit is $300 cheaper then having a fully upgraded cocker with any other grip. Both ways you get a gun that is fully upgraded with no stock parts. If you like traditonal this may not be the gun for you, if you want a gun you can shoot 14bps with a design so simple it makes you wonder why your gun ever had those extra parts that sit in the bottom of your gear bag this may be your thing. This gun says to me Cocker/Angel/Shocker has design similarities with the best parts of all 3 worked in. The feal of a cocker which is my personal favorite, Angel speed and trigger feal, shocker mainly just the way the bolt moves reminds me of this one. Efficency may be lacking in this gun since the hammer is pneumatic and not just the bolt is my only concern, but the under 100 psi the pneumatics run at is not much air. I would say the pneumatics of this gun use roughly 50-75% more air then standerd cocker (not tested just educated guess) and will result in loss of 200 shots per full tank or so. Any questions? I'm trying to cover it all since this is still new to 90% of you. Alex you have messed with yours more so if you see I made a mistake correct me here.
later,
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Old 01-29-2002, 02:04 AM #4
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if the grip wasn't soo ugly...
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Old 01-29-2002, 01:21 PM #5
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I have shot the RACE and Centerflags... I realy prefer this one.. In my opinion its just a better design. The things to simple to have any real problems, and theres no timing issues. The ROF is a little higher with this one, but anything 10+ is plenty quick. Plus this one you can install yourself in under 30 mins. And I still think it looks better then all the alternatives. All of the electronic kits will let you rip a cocker no problem only diffrence is this ones $100 cheaper and comes with much more. You get a Solinoid, pneumatic reg, inline reg, bolt, hammer, front block, back block, and few more things. And then the standerd grip frame and electronics you get with all the others. The adjustable pneumatic reg and inline reg are another $100 worth of parts right there that you don't get with other kits.
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Old 01-29-2002, 01:38 PM #6
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Quote:
The ROF is a little higher with this one, but anything 10+ is plenty quick.
The rate of fire on this gun can't be any higher then the race, the racegun is fully adjustable, you can put it as high as you want, or as low as you want via computer.
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Old 01-29-2002, 01:44 PM #7
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Yeah but this gun actualy works at the higher ROF... Theres a reason people don't turn there Races above 12..
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Old 01-29-2002, 02:19 PM #8
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To me it seemed very stable.. The trigger has a sweet spot that lets you rip it, and since you don't have to worry about actualy pulling the trigger at all makes the gun very steady while shooting. Just seemed more stable then a regular cocker to me. Maintance is well none most likely. There are a few o-rings that may occasionaly go bad, but that is all. And actualy even if those o-rings completly blew out I think the gun would still halfway work. The bolt and hammer you know move like a pneumatic ram except they are held back by a spring when not aired up rather then having air pressure on both sides. So it would be like a seal in a ram going out the air would still enter the ram and push it forward, but since some air would be escaping it would take longer to build up the pressure to move the ram slowing down the gun. Basicly if your guns velocity is lower then it was before and have same pressure going into it the hammer o-ring proably has a nick in it, causing the hammer to move slower and hit the valve softer. If the gun has blowback (after initial setup) the bolts piston o-ring is proably got a nick in it causing the bolt to move slower allowing the hammer to hit the valve before the bolt reaches its closed postion. Thats basicly the only 2 possible problems out side of the pneumatic regulator which is same as a Rock basicly, and the Clippard Solinoid which I think Clippard makes great products and can't see that being a problem. It is a problem free design. I actualy had nearly a identical plan about a year ago wish I could of built of one. Was the first thing I said to my freind after we saw them was Rember my idea for a electro cocker I told you about a year ago? And he was like yeah they built it.
later,
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Old 02-06-2002, 08:50 PM #9
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drool.....

I want one. A friend of mine is going to get one in a week or two and I will review it and most likely buy myself a cocker body, valve, and this kit.

I have to say the trigger frame looks good to me though
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Old 02-06-2002, 09:08 PM #10
angel4life
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I have noticed little to no kick at all. Unfortunately the gun I have pictured sold before I could really see how fast it could go with a HALO... O well guess I'll have to get some more.
-Alex
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Old 02-06-2002, 10:06 PM #11
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god thats gay..just imho...sry 2 offend anyway


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Old 02-08-2002, 01:03 AM #12
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I am thinking of ...

building a custom cocker with one of these kits, spanky body, red valve and the rest would be from this kit. Very excited...
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Old 02-08-2002, 05:33 AM #13
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Aside from the trigger frame and front electronics it looks really cool.

It'll be interesting to see some side-by-side comparisons of this conversion aside from what was already presented. The performance benefits and price at pros but the cosmetics could use some refinement. The mechanics can be either a pro or con depending on whether you like the simplicity or prefer a moving block. I forsee more cockers being converted to electros in the near future as it's getting more and more affordable to do. I wonder if this will drive the prices of the RACE and Uprising down?
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Old 02-08-2002, 10:00 AM #14
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Questions and Input

Ok here are some questions and input on the firestorm. First of all it sounds like it totally takes away from the traditional cocker. If it is not a true closed bolt anymore than there goes the accuracy and the distance, you might as well buy any other electronic marker on the market instead of tearing up your cocker.

The rate of fire is the same on Firestorm, Centerflag and the Race so there I dont see any difference only the price.

If it breaks down what do you do, looks like you would have to ship it back to the company to fix it, with Centerflag it takes 15 minutes, to put back to stock set up, with race I believe it takes a little longer.

I shot one at Mardi Gras and seemed to fire the same as the rest but like I said your totally taking the cocker out of the equasion, air effeciency and distance and accuracy.

The one thing that I did like is the very gorgeous naughty russian kitty that was in the booth, WOW

I am not saying anything bad about the conversion, it looks like alot of time and effort went into this conversion.
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Old 02-08-2002, 01:31 PM #15
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I can't belive people still belive in the closed bolt fairys now days. What makes a autococker seem to be so accurate is the incredilby stable shooting platform they provide. And it is the same with this kit. And no Race and centerflags can not shoot as fast as the kit. They can be set to fire as fast as these can, but will not work with paint. You will get blowback and the gun will misscycle occasionaly. All closed bolt does is leads to slower feeding with a higher likely hood of chopping. And like I said before but I will say it again. The bolt and hammer do not move as one peice like they do in all other electronic guns, this does alow for the valve not to open at all untill 30miliseconds after the bolt is fully closed. These means no blowback and suction timing. May not be closed bolt by the traditional sense, but still fires almost identicaly. Kinda simialer to a autococker thats being shot at high ROF where the bolt closing happens right as you fire the next shot.
later,
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Old 02-08-2002, 01:54 PM #16
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Questions

Sprayer, you say you dont like our grips but nothing about the performance, and you say you dont like our 3-way, we dont have a 3-way, you use the 3-way that comes on the marker or and aftermarket one is maybe $35-$40.

JCC, the so called Fairy tails your talking about. Why doesnt a Angel, Impulse, or any other open bolt elect. marker have the distance or accuracy that a cocker has, the Ironmen have even said that the Angels dont shoot as acurate as a cocker does. Evidently you have not tested our frame or Races frame because the cockers I set up with our Uprising will keep up with no problem at all, and I have many customers that will say the same thing.

Just my two cents
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Old 02-08-2002, 02:16 PM #17
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PGA... Angels etc. DO shoot as far and are as accurate as cockers. They, however, may not be as easy to be accurate with due to a difference in recoil. I don't care what the Ironmen say, as they obviously have no grasp on the laws of physics if they believe Angels don't shoot as far. Not trying to sound rude, though. I'm also not trying to clutter up this thread. So, if you'd like to discuss it, feel free to PM me or catch me on AIM.

Back to the subject of the thread, though... it's a neat little kit. I've had the pleasure of messing with it a few times at a local field because the local field owner is the guy who designed it (Leon Styles of Tombstone Paintball Park). I must say that if it weren't for the looks, this would definitely be something I'd plan on getting for my Ripper, but because of the looks, I'm not sure. It'll either be a RACE or this when I have the money. No offense to centerflag, but I don't like the idea of using the stock 4-way. That's just me, though.

Last edited by Ri0T : 02-08-2002 at 02:20 PM.
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Old 02-08-2002, 02:30 PM #18
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hey riot, have you tried the impact zone yet?
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Old 02-08-2002, 02:37 PM #19
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Trying to say that a cocker shoots farther just makes your self look stupid since its be proven over and over again that they dont. And like I said the accuracy comes from the stable shooting platform a cocker has makes them easier to aim and easier to keep on target. And I have shot RACEs and Centerflags tried the centerflag at the masters and MGO... Tried the RACE at MGO and a freind of mine has one. Both work perfectly fine, but they do not work well at high rates of fire, and if it works for you then your not shooting that fast. Me any my freind who both pull 14 are so on are angels both made the Centerflag choke up at Masters and the RACE was set so slow it didn't count most my pulls. And then theres the fact that this kit is cheaper and you get so much more; both adjustable regulators, lots more, and the electronic grip frame.
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Old 02-08-2002, 08:39 PM #20
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This is a bit off topic but sence we are on the topic of comparing kits and all, how do u change the modes of fire on a race.

I just didnt want to start a new thread.
As long as im here, i might as well state my opinion.
I believe it is a fine economical kit, but most people will turn away from it due to looks. Im sorry but i think the race looks tight.
Maybe down the line they will make a different model that looks better. Clearly, you all have stated that most of the grips are the same, some have different modes but mainly the same. So if it was me, i would just save up the extra money for a race due to the fact that it has looks, modes, and YES YOU CAN PUT YOUR OWN GRIPS ON THEM.
But hey, i havnt shot one of these firestorms yet so who am i to say.
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Old 02-08-2002, 10:54 PM #21
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Stupid

Wow, Jcc you are calling me stupid ouch, stupid is, is stupid does or somthing like that. Ok let me put it in other words, A cocker has a flatter trajectory than an Angel, yes 300 fps is 300 fps no matter what marker you are shooting. And you say you tried our frame at the MGO, and it wont keep up with high rates of fire, ha, you must not know your cockers then or have read Sam's review of his Freeflow I set up for him. I have myself a Black magic and it shoots at 13bps with no problem and I have set many up that will keep up at the same rate, only problem is it outshoots the hopper, we just now have a Halo so we are going to see how fast we can shoot one. And you say you can shoot 14 bps wow I would love to see you on one of the new Chronos that can do bps, not saying you cant but would like to see how fast you really are. I agree with Ethan from Pro Paintball, a closed bolt marker has the capability to shoot 20bps, if feed properly, I mostly play with mine on 11 but at MGO I did play at 13 with no problem at all. I am not going to sit here and say how bad the firestorm is or that you are stupid because Im not like that, so what ever you reply to this have fun because no more reply's will come from me this isnt smaktalk and I know the moderator's of this site and I know they dont want it to be that way, you only make yourself and the company that makes Firestorm look bad and if your not involved with that company and I were them I would be unhappy,

Sorry Sam, didnt mean for this to be like smacktalk
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