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Old 01-25-2002, 01:09 PM #1
cocker55
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excal efficiency problem...

just got my, gun, excal number 129....
nothing on it, cept for the new bolt...

and I gassed it up, and was disturbed to see this "efficient"
gun draining my 68/45 hyperflow...
I could see the thousands pressure gauge dropping with the shots.... big time... too much.
I had the tank set around 300 psi... and the gun was shooting 290 or so... LMK if you have any suggestions??
I'm gonna play with the LPR settings, and such this weekend..
so LMK if this could effect the rest of the gun...
also, anything else that I should do to my gun...
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Old 01-25-2002, 01:47 PM #2
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Where you dry firing? Cuase without paint a LP marker will drain the tank fast no mater how efficient it is. The ball on the face of the bolt is actually part of the equation for efficiency and you cant really measure it without shooting decent paint thats matched to the barrel. I also see a sizable difference in efficiency depending on what barrel I am using. If I use my heavily ported Dye SS I get about 20% less shots then with my Stock Javlin. The difference is more dramtic then say with an Angel or a Mag cuase the LP nature of the Excal. LP markers accelerate the ball over a longer period of time and if you have alot of porting or a steped barrel then you end up wasteing alot of energy getting to 290fps. I highly suggest a barrel that is not Steped and is not heavily ported in the first 8-9 inches. After that it really doesnt matter. You can get away with no porting or stepping on a Angel in the first 4-5 inches cuase it accelerates the ball almost 2x as fast. I am personally planning on getting 2 Lapco's. A Bigshot that is .689 and an Autospirit that is .686 to go with my stock Javlin that is .684. The Lapco's are only ported in the last 3 inches and are not steped.
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Old 01-25-2002, 01:48 PM #3
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Set the tank to 500 psi going into the Sidewinder. If you're shooting it without paint it isn't nearly as efficient as it is with paint. Try it with paint before you adjust the LPR.

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Old 01-25-2002, 04:32 PM #4
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I'm not following how the gun uses less air to fire when there is a paintball, like it would know the difference.

But, it's been a long week and my brain is fried at the moment. BTW Lapcos are stepped, at the end. Some think that is one reason they shoot so good.
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Old 01-25-2002, 06:02 PM #5
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Ask AKA it was on there page back in the day under Tornado Valve Instillation. The way I understand it to be is as follows:

The opporating pressure is set and the air is held on one side of the valve. When you fire the marker the valve opens and the pressure equalizes with the air on the otherside of the valve. If there is a ball upclose to the bolt it impedes the flow of air thus allowing the valve to close faster and not wasting extra air. The ball is part of the system and without one the valve will allow more air to escape down the barrel then with one.

If this wasnt the case then you could test effeciancy without paint by just shooting enough balls to get the right FPS set then dry firing till the bottle was empty.
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Old 01-25-2002, 07:02 PM #6
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styles any part of the air/gun system can be modeled as a fluid "resistance" or an element that resists the flow of air. This is analogous to an electrical resistor that resists or impedes the flow of electrons. think if you blocked the front of the valve with a sealed plug almost no air would flow when you shot it. A ball has the same effect to a lesser degree. Im not sure why it would be more pronounced with an LP gun however.
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Old 01-25-2002, 09:36 PM #7
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Same reason a LP marker takes longer to accelerate a paintball from 0-290fps then a HP marker. The Valve is open long enough to equalize the pressure and the higher the flow rate and the lower the pressure the more air that can escape in the same amount of time.

An easy test would be to get a 4500 psi fill and see how many shots it takes to empty it dry firing and then load it up with a case a nice paint and that matches the barrel and repeat. Do the same thing with an HP marker and an LP marker and I think you will find a dramatic difference. I would be willing to guess that an Excal can get 20% more shots then a stock LCD. And would get 20% less shots then the LCD when dry firing. But thats just a guess.
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Old 01-25-2002, 09:57 PM #8
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Rep's on it. You bucking for a mod position with all the great posts and information? Very good job! Thanks.

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Old 01-25-2002, 11:33 PM #9
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I just read all your posts AuctionJunkie!, thats where I get all the good infoz.
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Old 01-26-2002, 01:33 AM #10
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I cant tell where Auctionjunkie! ends and Reciprocity begins, lol j/k.
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Old 01-26-2002, 10:25 AM #11
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Usally if you shove a squeejee in your barrel or a barrel condom that covers all your porting. It should give suffieicnt back pressure to make the valve close in normal time.
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Old 02-07-2002, 10:07 PM #12
cocker55
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I still don't see how a gun that shoots with a chambered amount of gas, uses more when it can only use what is chambered...

x= amount of gas in chamber behind sealed valve....
x is all the air that is shot at any time out of the gun....
so how can you say that X+1 is what you get without paint...
the paint does not force air back down the chamber... so
it would expell the same amount of gas...


and it was the LPR it was set way too high... I'm surprised I didn't blow a solenoid... but once I fidled with it, dropped it a bit, screwed it in and such, the pressure went down, and the efficincy went up... thanks tho for all the info. and if my reply is wrong, then please explain why, I always enjoy learning why I was wrong.
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Old 02-08-2002, 12:25 AM #13
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Your theory would be somewhat correct if you had only x amount of gas and you opened the valve untill all of x amount of gas was gone. Then closed the bolt and refilled the chamber. But thats now how the Excal works. The Excal has a huge reseviour of air that is constantly replenished which is part of why its so efficient.. So I am going to say this again real slowly so try to keep up Cocker55.

When you gas up your marker the sidewinder equalizes the OUTPUT pressure of your Tank with the pressure inside the Marker. What do I mean by equalizes? The pressure on both sides of the regulator is equal, but one side has a SPRING to help it keep the valve closed. Now there is an amount of pressure on the valve which is equal to what you have your Sidewinder set to. If you adjust your sidewinder you are changing spring tension. So the pressure re-equalizes as you change the tension. This is the same thing that happens when the hammer hits the valve and pushes it agains the valve spring. Now if you where to restrict the flow of air on the face of the bolt, this equalization would happen faster becuase the air cant escape fast enough due to the restricted flow the ball causes. If you where to put your finger over the face of your bolt and stop all air coming out it would get an infininate amount of shoots as the pressure would equalize instantly. Think of it as a Volumn of air at 150psi on one side and a much smaller volumn(the bolt to the ball) on the other side. Now this volumn gets bigger as the ball moves down the barrel but the flow is still restricted throughout the proccess. If its not, e.g. heavily ported or steped barrel, you will see dramitic efficiency differences. I get 20% more shots from my stock Javlin then I do from a Dye boomstick. Barrels that are steped and heavily ported are bad on efficiency on a LP marker like the Excal. Not as big an issue on a 350psi Angel as the pressure equalizes faster. Tests have been done, I dont have any links handy, but in HP markers the ball gets most of its acceleration in the first 4". LP markers it takes a bit longer. So I suggest that you have atleast 6-7" of no steping or porting.

If you dont believe me, just fill your tank and shoot a **** load of balls till its empty and try it again with no balls. Dont forget to count. You will see more dramatic differences if you use the stock Javlin with balls that fit. Put a ball in the barrel and and put it up to the light. Do you see large gaps? Does the ball easily blow through the barrel? If the ball is to small it will also lead to inefficiency. If the balls are to big they will fly all over the place. If they are to small you will have efficiency issues but the accuracy is usually fine.
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