How I hear the Nerve works - PbNation
Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

 
Archived Thread - Cannot Edit  
Old 04-13-2004, 09:47 PM #1
kangaroodent
Rodenté
 
kangaroodent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Regina, SK, Canukistan
kangaroodent is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
How I hear the Nerve works

Got this info from a guy who was designing the same thing a couple years ago, owns a company here in SK, Canada:

The Nerve is a closed AND open bolt marker. It operates closed bolt under 10bps or so, and then switches to open to attain higher ROF.

It will most likely incorporate SPs' new trigger that fires when it comes into contact with flesh (that's been patented already, go searching for it).

And knowing SP, there WILL be problems with it originally, and you'll have to buy things to "help" the problem even though it probably won't, and it will have its' own barrel threading, so that SP can make more money. Not to mention there will be Vision, non-Vision and Ultimate Vison/Non-Vision versions also.

Need proof? Look at all the markers SP has ever made. Shocker= Gas hog, ugly, Impulse= Boring, $80 for colours, hundreds to take it to tourney level. They all have their own threadings.

Expect plenty of gimmicks and hype.

Have fun.
__________________

Feedback
kangaroodent is offline  
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 04-17-2004, 04:32 PM #2
Dye Matrix DM4
 
 
Dye Matrix DM4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
 has been a member for 10 years
well said!
__________________
sold all my stuff (not halo or tank)....didnt like the feel of the dm4......looking for a new impy, shocker, might wait until the nerve comes out!
Dye Matrix DM4 is offline  
Old 04-17-2004, 04:48 PM #3
weston
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
weston is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
yup!!
weston is offline  
Old 04-19-2004, 02:25 PM #4
Ydna
timetraveler
 
Ydna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Tecumseh MI
Ydna is a Moderator
Ydna is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
Ydna is BST Trusted
Re: How I hear the Nerve works

Quote:
Originally posted by kangaroodent
The Nerve is a closed AND open bolt marker. It operates closed bolt under 10bps or so, and then switches to open to attain higher ROF.
Wrong. Impossible. Well, not impossible, but extremely difficult and unorthodox, and nobody is goignt o spend the money makign it happen.

Quote:
Originally posted by kangaroodent
And knowing SP, there WILL be problems with it originally, and you'll have to buy things to "help" the problem even though it probably won't, and it will have its' own barrel threading, so that SP can make more money. Not to mention there will be Vision, non-Vision and Ultimate Vison/Non-Vision versions also.
The Nerve's deisng is nothign new, all it's problems have been worked out in the Impulse, intimidator, Millennium, Defiant, Angel, Viking, and other stacked open bolt electropneumatics. The gun wouldn't cost $1500 if it has a junk firing assembly like the stock Imp.

The Nerve uses Impulse-threaded barrels.

Vision and the Flo system are standard on the gun. No exceptions.
__________________
ydna@zdspb.com - [ZDSPB.com]
Nummech Products
Thin Air Sports

As told by Stobaeus
...someone who had begun to learn geometry with Euclid, when he had learnt the first theorem, asked Euclid "What shall I get by learning these things?" Euclid called his slave and said "Give him threepence since he must make gain out of what he learns".
Ydna is offline  
Old 04-20-2004, 06:42 PM #5
NeverForgetYa
Flip the script
 
NeverForgetYa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
 has been a member for 10 years
Re: How I hear the Nerve works

Quote:
Originally posted by kangaroodent
Got this info from a guy who was designing the same thing a couple years ago, owns a company here in SK, Canada:

The Nerve is a closed AND open bolt marker. It operates closed bolt under 10bps or so, and then switches to open to attain higher ROF.

It will most likely incorporate SPs' new trigger that fires when it comes into contact with flesh (that's been patented already, go searching for it).

And knowing SP, there WILL be problems with it originally, and you'll have to buy things to "help" the problem even though it probably won't, and it will have its' own barrel threading, so that SP can make more money. Not to mention there will be Vision, non-Vision and Ultimate Vison/Non-Vision versions also.

Need proof? Look at all the markers SP has ever made. Shocker= Gas hog, ugly, Impulse= Boring, $80 for colours, hundreds to take it to tourney level. They all have their own threadings.

Expect plenty of gimmicks and hype.

Have fun.
You, are a moron. And they know nothing about paintball in Canada. Nice try. Like stated above, the Nerve will be a polished refinement of essentially an Impulse/Intimidator/Angel design.
__________________
All-American
punishersPB
SmartParts
NeverForgetYa is offline  
Old 04-20-2004, 07:55 PM #6
Beejizzle
Trix fa Life
 
Beejizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Beejizzle is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
Umm buddy Explain the 03 Shocker plz. I don't think SP messed up anything on it.
__________________
Black 2006 Angel Speed

Buy, Sell, Trade Feedback
Beejizzle is offline  
Old 04-20-2004, 10:40 PM #7
Ydna
timetraveler
 
Ydna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Tecumseh MI
Ydna is a Moderator
Ydna is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
Ydna is BST Trusted
He means like how the on/off actuators frequently broke on the earlier ones, and the delrin bolts scratching, and others.
__________________
ydna@zdspb.com - [ZDSPB.com]
Nummech Products
Thin Air Sports

As told by Stobaeus
...someone who had begun to learn geometry with Euclid, when he had learnt the first theorem, asked Euclid "What shall I get by learning these things?" Euclid called his slave and said "Give him threepence since he must make gain out of what he learns".
Ydna is offline  
Old 04-21-2004, 05:25 PM #8
not_manbot_revenge
 
 
not_manbot_revenge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: what the hell
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Beejizzle
Umm buddy Explain the 03 Shocker plz. I don't think SP messed up anything on it.
no efficency, horrible tolerences, slowest capped board on the market in its price range, constant bouncing, no LPR (another jerry-rigged noid), SFT myth, high dwell times, reflective eye
__________________
looking for ebladed/raced cockers and LCD and IR3 Angels for a trade....

AIM=angryjacks hit me up
not_manbot_revenge is offline  
Old 04-21-2004, 10:19 PM #9
Ydna
timetraveler
 
Ydna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Tecumseh MI
Ydna is a Moderator
Ydna is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
Ydna is BST Trusted
Be realistic. You won't legally shoot faster than 24-bps. Even if you could do this, nobody will while out on the field.

The gus dosen't need an LPR because the soleniod already operates at 90-psi.

The reflective eyes work fine so long as they're clean and connected strong.
__________________
ydna@zdspb.com - [ZDSPB.com]
Nummech Products
Thin Air Sports

As told by Stobaeus
...someone who had begun to learn geometry with Euclid, when he had learnt the first theorem, asked Euclid "What shall I get by learning these things?" Euclid called his slave and said "Give him threepence since he must make gain out of what he learns".
Ydna is offline  
Old 04-21-2004, 10:33 PM #10
not_manbot_revenge
 
 
not_manbot_revenge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: what the hell
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Ydna
Be realistic. You won't legally shoot faster than 24-bps. Even if you could do this, nobody will while out on the field.

The gus dosen't need an LPR because the soleniod already operates at 90-psi.

The reflective eyes work fine so long as they're clean and connected strong.
the higher the cap, the higher your gun checks for pulls thus making it more responsive


please please please inform us how the noid operates at 90 psi with 200 going into it, does it magically reduce pressure?

reflective eyes are still a flawed system
__________________
looking for ebladed/raced cockers and LCD and IR3 Angels for a trade....

AIM=angryjacks hit me up
not_manbot_revenge is offline  
Old 04-22-2004, 12:55 AM #11
Ydna
timetraveler
 
Ydna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Tecumseh MI
Ydna is a Moderator
Ydna is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
Ydna is BST Trusted
Increasing the ROF cap does increase the trigger check frequency, but it does so so the ROF cap will be higher. You don't shoot faster because there are more trigger checks, you shoot faster because the board has a shorter recharge between shots. But if the board has 3000 trigger checks per second with a ROF cap of 20-bps, and another has 1 billion checks with the same ROF, the chances of seeing a difference in the two are statistically impossible.

Do you know what the soleniod inserts are? They are responsible for dropping the incoming pressure to the soleniod. It functions sortof as a rudimentary LPR however the output pressure is not self-stabalizing. This is common knowledge. Stick your finger in the breech and try it for yourself.

Through-breech beam-break sensors cannot detect any types of paint shells that properly functioning reflective sensors cannot either. For the record, the only types of shells that are invisable as such are very specific shades of blue and purple.
__________________
ydna@zdspb.com - [ZDSPB.com]
Nummech Products
Thin Air Sports

As told by Stobaeus
...someone who had begun to learn geometry with Euclid, when he had learnt the first theorem, asked Euclid "What shall I get by learning these things?" Euclid called his slave and said "Give him threepence since he must make gain out of what he learns".
Ydna is offline  
Old 04-23-2004, 12:39 AM #12
Audiomaster
Veni, Vidi, Vici.
 
Audiomaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: The 435
Audiomaster is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
Actually, it is statistically possible to see a difference if the amount of trigger pulls is greater or lessor. You need to think of it as "windows of opportunity". In your example instead of having 3000 chances to pull the trigger in a second you would have a billion. Or to be more realistic as your examples are on the border of hyperbole, if you have a 10bps board you can pull the trigger 15 times in that second and no matter what it is only going to read 10. Now what about a 20 bps board capped at fifteen? You now have 20 chances to pull it 15 times. A 30bps board gives you even more chances to make the 15 pulls.

A lot of people argue that you don't need to shoot that fast or ROF doesn't matter. I beg to differ. As a back player I want the least amount of space between my balls when I am shooting off the break. This makes it much less likely for a player to "slip or luck" through the lanes.

That said the spool valve spacers do a decent job of regulating the pressure down. That shouldn't be an issue.

There are several colors of balls that beam break eyes have a hard time with. Not seeing them and the message they send to the board are two different things. Next time you have an eclipse cocker handy pull the bolt out and drop a few different colors of paintballs in the breach. You will see the HUGE difference in the readings of the paintballs. Beam break eyes are the only sure way to know that you don't have a ball there. What is the point of an anti-chop system that may not be able to see a paintball? Why not make it a sure thing.

Another problem I have with the 03 shocker is gas efficency. Out of the box it sucks. As your tank gets lower you have lower potential energy due to lack of air volume. This can result in velocity spikes and hot shots at the end of a game that could (and often does) cost your team a break into the semi finals. Spool valve guns are especially sensitive to this.

The bottom line is this. For the money you get a marker with less than desirable gas efficency, an anti chop system that may not see your paint and initially bad swiches and misaligned bolts. What good is this marker if you have to send it back, it breaks paint or you have to spend another couple hundred bucks to make it gas efficent?

With markers that are just as fast have better gas efficency and beam break eyes for way less money it just doesn't make sense. . .
Audiomaster is offline  
Old 04-23-2004, 02:42 AM #13
Ydna
timetraveler
 
Ydna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Tecumseh MI
Ydna is a Moderator
Ydna is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
Ydna is BST Trusted
heh I consider your example still very unlikely. if you shrink the windows down to the range you describe then yes, by all means there is a difference, however I am reasonably sure the boards in mention don't deal with that few trigger checks.

The other side is, it appears to me that you are seeing the effect before you examine the cause. Let me try to explain. I would put forth that there is a difference in simply dividing 1 second by 20 to get 20-bps, and actually pulling the trigger exactly that amount. What I mean is, if you've got a board that checks 1000 times every second, then you've got a window of one millisecond to make the pull. Whereas a board of 4000 checks/second would give you a one-forth millisecond windor to activate the switch. But it is still 20-bps.

If you don't understand what I mean, try to imagine this: in the shorter window you are simply leaving yourself more time to fire the trigger given that the activation is an instantanious event. If you were to randomly pull the trigger five times in one second, you can then divide that second into as many windows as you wish, yet it will still be 5-bps.
Am I adequately conveying my reasoning?

The nature of reflective eyes is not to detect the paintshells of shorter wavelengths, such as blue or purple. However, with beam-breaks, we all notice the exact opposite. I don't know how familiar you are with colorimetry, but I would be very hapy to explain to you if you're not familiar with the correlation between IR absorbance and wavelengths.
What we end up with is a pair of eye systems that each have their own types of invisible paintshells. Break-beam eyes cannot see everything, much countrary to popular belief. There is absolutely nothing wrong with your reflective eye so long as it is clean and the connection between it and the board is strong.

I agree about the ROF, what I mean is you're not going to stand there during the game and shoot more then the Shocker's cap. At least, not legally. Besides this, the difference between 24-bps and 20-bps is very far from that of 4-bps to 8-bps.
__________________
ydna@zdspb.com - [ZDSPB.com]
Nummech Products
Thin Air Sports

As told by Stobaeus
...someone who had begun to learn geometry with Euclid, when he had learnt the first theorem, asked Euclid "What shall I get by learning these things?" Euclid called his slave and said "Give him threepence since he must make gain out of what he learns".
Ydna is offline  
Old 04-23-2004, 10:25 AM #14
Dye Matrix DM4
 
 
Dye Matrix DM4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
 has been a member for 10 years
WOW!!! did i learn alot reading this page. Thanks for that "debate" It was like i am in school....THANKS AGAIN!
__________________
sold all my stuff (not halo or tank)....didnt like the feel of the dm4......looking for a new impy, shocker, might wait until the nerve comes out!
Dye Matrix DM4 is offline  
Old 04-23-2004, 04:14 PM #15
HELLSPAWNpyro
 
 
HELLSPAWNpyro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Ont. Canada
 has been a member for 10 years
well the thing about open and closed bolt operation is that it was already used from what I know in the PGI Firestorm.
HELLSPAWNpyro is offline  
Old 04-23-2004, 04:29 PM #16
Ydna
timetraveler
 
Ydna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Tecumseh MI
Ydna is a Moderator
Ydna is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
Ydna is BST Trusted
Yes, but that is because the bolt is seperated from the hammer. Similary, you could easily make a Shocker Sport or Excalibur into an open bolt marker (if the boards allowed it).
You can also time autocockers to be open bolt as well.
__________________
ydna@zdspb.com - [ZDSPB.com]
Nummech Products
Thin Air Sports

As told by Stobaeus
...someone who had begun to learn geometry with Euclid, when he had learnt the first theorem, asked Euclid "What shall I get by learning these things?" Euclid called his slave and said "Give him threepence since he must make gain out of what he learns".
Ydna is offline  
Old 04-23-2004, 04:31 PM #17
HELLSPAWNpyro
 
 
HELLSPAWNpyro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Ont. Canada
 has been a member for 10 years
I'm just saying that it IS possible.
HELLSPAWNpyro is offline  
Old 04-23-2004, 05:15 PM #18
Ydna
timetraveler
 
Ydna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Tecumseh MI
Ydna is a Moderator
Ydna is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
Ydna is BST Trusted
heh yeah we all know it's possible however not if the bolt is linked to the hammer as it is with the Nerve.
__________________
ydna@zdspb.com - [ZDSPB.com]
Nummech Products
Thin Air Sports

As told by Stobaeus
...someone who had begun to learn geometry with Euclid, when he had learnt the first theorem, asked Euclid "What shall I get by learning these things?" Euclid called his slave and said "Give him threepence since he must make gain out of what he learns".
Ydna is offline  
Old 04-23-2004, 10:03 PM #19
emnm79
Banned
 
emnm79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally posted by not_manbot_revenge
please please please inform us how the noid operates at 90 psi with 200 going into it, does it magically reduce pressure?
yes.

*******.
emnm79 is offline  
Old 04-24-2004, 12:27 AM #20
not_manbot_revenge
 
 
not_manbot_revenge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: what the hell
 has been a member for 10 years
aye the spacers must do a very good job. i especially like how they bounce off your finger at 1-4 bps, but when you see somebody rip on a 2k3 shocker it still breaks balls over 10 bps. a spacer can only regulate so much air down so quickly. they tried that with the darkstars of olde. they had the same problems breaking paint.

reflective eyes are also subjective to black, reflective, and clear shelled (shiny) paint.

the shocker board still doesn't check over 40 times per second. comparable boards in that price range check for 100's or 1000's of times. you will notice a difference.
__________________
looking for ebladed/raced cockers and LCD and IR3 Angels for a trade....

AIM=angryjacks hit me up
not_manbot_revenge is offline  
Old 04-24-2004, 12:41 AM #21
Ydna
timetraveler
 
Ydna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Tecumseh MI
Ydna is a Moderator
Ydna is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
Ydna is BST Trusted
Some guns chop and some pinch. It's as simple as that. It is the same story with Impulses. I shoot well over 10 all the time with no chops, as do many others.

I am very aware of reflective eyes and their invisable paints. But you speak as if beam-breaks don't have any. This is not correct. But the paint shell being dark has nothing to do with it not being seen on reflective eyes because the wavelength of color is still the same as it is when "bright". There is also no such color as "black", what you're actually seeing is a really really dark other color. But in almost all cases this color is purple or blue because they appear the darkest of all on the visable spectrum. But in the same respect that some rough shelled paints don't work in reflective eyes, many smoother ones don't work in beam-breaks.
Each eye system has it's own destinctive invisible paints. Beam-break eyes are not just as simple as an object tripping the "beam". Given the right color shade and texture, some objects will never be seen by either system.

Yes the Shocker board checks over 50 times per second. I have tested this myself. I was unable to locate the exact number of trigger checks because my methods wouldn't fire fast enough (all I know is it's over 110).
__________________
ydna@zdspb.com - [ZDSPB.com]
Nummech Products
Thin Air Sports

As told by Stobaeus
...someone who had begun to learn geometry with Euclid, when he had learnt the first theorem, asked Euclid "What shall I get by learning these things?" Euclid called his slave and said "Give him threepence since he must make gain out of what he learns".

Last edited by Ydna : 04-24-2004 at 12:44 AM.
Ydna is offline  
 




Posting Rules
Forum Jump