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Old 06-07-2001, 09:58 PM #1
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The impulse runs better on co2 than hpa??? Makes no sense!

I was arguing with a guy yesterday. He said that his impulse was more consistent with co2. But how can a gun be more consistent on co2? It's just stupid! I think this guy is just dumb, am I wrong?
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Old 06-08-2001, 03:43 AM #2
lordofchaos
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he is wrong.

HPA is a more consistant gas period, mostly because its ALWAYS a gas, it doesnt go from a liquid to a gas (atleast not in the temp. ranges we'll be dealing with)

What ultimatly affects the consistancy will be the regulators, if the reg on your HPA tank is horribly incosistant, you will have a slight bit of inconsistances during rapid fire, shouldnt really have any when chrono'ing, There isnt a reg on a Co2 tank, but there is a change from a liquid to a gas, the pressure can be as diffrent as +/- 400 psi from a Co2 tank...

-Wes
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Old 06-08-2001, 08:34 AM #3
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One of his argument (this one really makes me laugh) was: the impulse is a low presure gun, so high pressure air won't work well with it... hahahahhahah
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Old 06-08-2001, 04:09 PM #4
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ROFLMAO!!!

Ok, take anything pointy away from this guy, he's a danger to himself and others around him!

let him know this, the output from a Co2 tank is normally around 800psi, but can be as high as 1200 (probably higher wen it's REALLY hot, because the burst disk blows at 3000psi) and I hink it can be as low as 250.

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Old 06-08-2001, 11:03 PM #5
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I told him something like that and he just said "my impulse works better with co2. I had big velocity spikes with hpa". Maybe he's telling me lies or he was just to stupid to use his tank the right way.
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Old 06-10-2001, 12:50 AM #6
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Wow...these forums are dead...

I'm just getting a 68ci co2 tank. Maybe I'll get a dye or kapp gauge to stick on the other side of the asa so it looks like nitro from a distance. I just don't see the point of hpa. The output of a co2 tank is never going to drop below the 160psi my impulse needs. I've never fired so fast/long that my reg frosted up badly... The only difference I can see is that I'll get more shots out of a co2 tank, and I can fill it up in my garage.
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Old 06-10-2001, 08:43 AM #7
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..Reklats..

..I gotta agree with you. My Imp runs fine on CO2. And I also have a 68 ci. CO@ tank on order. And when it comes time to refill, step in to my shop, refill, and go again. I have a major hook-up with a gas company that does not charge me for my gas. For me it is very cost effective to stay with CO2.
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Old 06-10-2001, 01:07 PM #8
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Well it sounds like the guy doesn't know what he's talking about completely. But the max flow reg is what is keeping it consistant, the max flow is an awesome regulator for nitro or co2, and he should be getting the same consistanty really.

I never owned an impulse, but I had a shocker with a Max Flow and CO2, my basic chrono numbers were 286-285-286-284-285-285..... I never had a chance to run nitro in it, but would have expected the exact same response.

You get the picture.


Nitro vs CO2 on guns without regulators will generate a diferent story.
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Old 06-12-2001, 04:31 PM #9
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what i dont understand is why people get a 68 co2 tank that can only hold 24oz of co2 for a 160 dollars
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Old 06-12-2001, 05:02 PM #10
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Actually, they hold 32oz. I know a couple people with shockers who use them 'cause a shocker only gets 700ish shots out of a 20oz.
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Old 06-12-2001, 11:52 PM #11
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acctually they hold 24oz they can hold 32 but they cant safly fill it up that much
read this its from Doc Nickel the world famous air-smith

First off, there's only two reasons anyone bothered to fill a fiber-wrapped tank with CO2; first, they thought, without bothering to check, that it could hold a larger quantity of CO2, and second, gas-hogs like Shockers get more shots from a tankful of CO2 than the same tank of air, BUT the fiber-wrap tank "looks cooler" and more "cutting edge". Can't be seen with an aluminum CO2 tank, bunkie. That's sooooo eighties. Everybody who's anybody uses compressed air, don'cha know....

Without briging the social status crap in, lots of players were told the 68 ci tank could hold 32 ounces of CO2. Well, technically it can, but then, a 7-ounce tank can "technically" hold 10.3 ounces.

There MUST, let me repeat that, MUST be a 'vapor bubble' in the tank- it CANNOT be completely filled with liquid. A "full" tank of CO2 is, at a stable, room temperature, roughly 3/4 full of liquid- the rest is a vapor bubble that provides room for the liquid to expand and contract with temperature variations, without causing extremely dangerous pressures.

A 68 ci tank, by my calculations, can hold 24 ounces of CO2. If somebody does, in fact, manage to squeeze 32 ounces in there, run for your frigging life, it's now a hand grenade.

Now then, CO2 by itself won't hurt the tank. The inner liner of a fiber wrapped tank is a thin aluminum shell, and there's no difference between CO2 on a normal aluminum tank and a fiberwrap's aluminum inner.

The problem arises when one fires so much in such a short period that the tank cools down quickly, and to a very low temperature. The problem is aggravated by a high external temp- a warm day. The resulting temperature difference can cause the "shell" inside to contract, actually slightly "peeling" itself away from the bonded epoxy/fiber outer wrapping. Many such temp cycles (shooting a lot in one game, letting the tank warm up between games, then shooting a lot the next game, then getting the tank "dumped" to get it filled again, etc) can progressively 'loosen' more and more of the shell. Once there's fairly significant area is debonded, the resulting tank is no longer as strong as it was- thus it may very well fail the next hydro.

So, it seems silly to blow $160 on a CO2 tank that holds 24 ounces and might only last three years, when you could buy three regular 20's that'll last pretty much forever if you don't run over 'em with a car.

Now, for the next part- why bother with buying a steel, 3,000-psi rated tank just to hold CO2? There's forty thousand new and used CO2 tanks available right now- ranging from four ounces to forty.

If you want to "swap" between gasses, and I don't recommend it simply from a hassle standpoint (pick one and stick with it) then use a bottomline adapter and get a good CO2 tank and a decent screw-in HPA tank.
Doc.

After reading that it kinda swayed me from getting a 68 co2 tank
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Last edited by The Great Morpheus : 06-13-2001 at 12:04 AM.
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Old 06-13-2001, 12:10 AM #12
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Nicely put The Great Morpheus.. Doc's speech almost brought a tear to my eye

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Old 06-13-2001, 01:28 AM #13
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I try. If i can help only one person make that decision not to get a 68" co2 tank i have done my job. My organaztion "Impulse Owners .68" co2 (Ioa68co2)"
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Old 06-13-2001, 03:10 PM #14
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Well, I'm an old Mag and RT user (my Imp should be here any day!), and I ran on CO2 for a long time (unregulated).

Other than the consistancy issues raised here, CO2 is also very very dirty. The gas is filled with impurities and these get inside your regulator, valves, and internal o-rings. Since I switched to nitro about a year ago, I immediately noticed how much cleaner my internals were, even after months of usage, and I never had to change an internal o-ring (compared to the twice/year I had to using CO2).

So...fwiw...I am going nitro on my new Imp.
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Old 06-16-2001, 07:15 PM #15
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When one says the Impulse runs "better" on CO2, you have to have them define "better"

First-- CO2 is more effecent at storing engery. end result, small tank of CO2 gives better shot count then N2 tank-- Is that "better"?

Second-- CO2 has a 30-1 expantion ratio, in a pratical sense, this means you can actuly get more veloicy form the same ptessure of CO2. so if you make no changes (like re-chroning), and switch between CO2 and N2-- the CO2 will shoot faster (and longer)--is this what is ment by "better"

Third-- if youhave your gun properly set up for CO2, and just screw in a N2 preset, You will see a loss of preformance. BUT set up the dwell as you are suppose to--and the N2 shoots fine as frog hair.

Forth-- for a reg to operate correctly, you need a pressure differinal (between input and output) It is very possible with some set ups- esp with low cost presets-- to have problems with consistenctys simply because the max flo is not getting enought pressure quick enought to fuction properly. Remember that Max Flo is a pressure compasating reg--that means that it uses some of the supply air pressure to hold the reg piston in place (it "piggybacks" the spring) If it dosen't get the flow it needs (all the gas is going to the lowere pressure firing chamber insted os the compensator) your pressure can swing all over the place.

NOW-- if we are talking about a Impulse running off a Maxflo (like an ultimate impulse), there is NO WAY the guns is "better" on CO2.

Same goes for using a top quality screw in (like a center Flag 4500)

BUT...

On cheapt screw ins, I have seen all sorts of problems (remember you are "double regulated" here.

So my answer is on a correctly set up N2 system with a top quality N2 tank, the Impulse will run the best it is possible to run.

CO2 with an Anti syphon tank will come damn close

BUT a lesser quality N2 tnak running double regulated, CAN cause some problems.
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Old 06-17-2001, 05:06 PM #16
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Thank you FOM, you really helped!

I'm glad to see you here!
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